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Post Reply 6 dead, 63 wounded in Memorial Day weekend shootings
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20 / Cold and High
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16
but to the all gun laws and such, neither should be a option.
Since they get access to guns so easly one should also have a gun (gun vs gun?) but again more guns bring just more destruction...
So what about a clean up?
#ReFreshAmericaAgain
#CleaningYear
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain

"rebooting... "
"Sorry, couldn't find a greater version of America"
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46 / F / Reston, VA, USA
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Posted 6/2/16
I was pointing out that having lived in multiple states, like Maryland and California with strict gun laws, or Mississippi and Virginia with less strict gun laws, the bottom line is to purchase a gun LEGALLY you have to go through the same process of the Federal Background Check. The other differences boil down to things like in one state you have to wait three days to pick up the gun you just paid for and went through the background check for, while in a different state you have to present a card that proves you took the basic safety course required before you can purchase guns. Saying there's a major difference between Indiana and Illinois would be wrong - if you're legal to buy a gun in one state you either are already legal in the other or you would be after completing a training class available at any gun store. There's no point for legal gun owners to cross borders to buy guns.
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16

sundin13 wrote:


VividDreamZ wrote:

Hello Mr. Sundin13,

I guess you didn't fully read the conversation between HolyDrumstick and I. Which is fine, no worries. Let me clarify.

I was merely responding to HolyDrumstick, as it is shocking that Chicago has very strict gun laws, and very high crime rates. I honestly don't expect gun bans to work, and aware how easy it is to obtain firearms, what I do expect hopefully is for the government to lock down the high murder rate zones to contain the violence.


No, I read it all. There were just a few things that I felt the need to clarify before things followed the path that they virtually always follow in gun control debates.

As for whether more guns = less crime as some others in this thread have been implying...well a causal link isn't anywhere close to having been proven.

I am hoping to have a more intelligent debate about the matter. My intent at least from my end is not to have a gun control debate. Everyone has their own personal opinions about that which is fine. My focus is beyond the guns, and focused more crime across America in the worst areas, and the most effective way for it to be stopped.

America has the power and resources to swiftly put a end to this, so I am just curious why certain parts of the country are allowed to function as a 3rd world country.

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Posted 6/2/16

Razor_Girl wrote: There's no point for legal gun owners to cross borders to buy guns.
yeah "legal"... I guess those didn't

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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16

Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


VividDreamZ wrote:

That makes this even more shocking. Strictest gun laws but the crime appears to be out of control. If the government wanted they could have the FBI, DEA, and local police lock down the area within a few hours. Setup controlled checkpoints, a heavy police presence will bring instant results. Wishful thinking but declaring a state of emergency in the high crimes area would allow the national guard to assist. That type of force would put a immediate decline to the drug trafficking, crime, and shootings.


Sounds like someone owns the police... I don't think a frisking policy is gonna work and with your gun laws you made yourself a target for more organized crime, you guys gave them a money market. Your only option is to lift some restrictions and use that as a deterant which is probably impossible now considering that everyone who could change it is in somebody's pocket. Lifting some restrictions though will more than likely cause a jump in crime seeing as how some people will use it to take justice in their own hands but it should slowly go down afterwards as it would scare some criminals.


As controversial as stop and frisk was in New York City, it was actually effective in reducing crime. The police targeted high crime areas and crime decreased. If criminals know that they have the potential to have a greater probability to be stopped or pulled over for guns / drugs they will be less prone to carry these items on them to commit crimes. What sucks is the innocent people get targeted to keep these communities safe. The frisking policy won't work without more of a police presence in Chicago's high crime zones.

I believe the more police presence in the area, the lesser the crime will be. It seems like the Chicago PD is not capable of handling the current situation, and probably need more resources to do so.
runec 
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Posted 6/2/16
Chicago's problems are so much deeper than whether or not they have strict gun control.



Razor_Girl wrote:
I think that if they ACTUALLY enforced the laws and sentencing instead of letting criminals plea deal and get out of jail early, a lot of this crime would not be happening.


Chicago is hilariously lenient when it comes to sentencing for possession of illegal firearms. Getting caught with an illegal firearm in Chicago is more like getting sentenced to a 6 month summer camp for street gangs.



VividDreamZ wrote:
America has the power and resources to swiftly put a end to this, so I am just curious why certain parts of the country are allowed to function as a 3rd world country.


States Rights(tm).
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23 / M / Texas
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16

VividDreamZ wrote:

As controversial as stop and frisk was in New York City, it was actually effective in reducing crime. The police targeted high crime areas and crime decreased. If criminals know that they have the potential to have a greater probability to be stopped or pulled over for guns / drugs they will be less prone to carry these items on them to commit crime. What sucks is the innocent people get targeted to keep these communities safe. The frisking policy won't work without more of a police presence in Chicago's high crime zones.

I believe the more police presence in the area, the lesser the crime will be. It seems like the Chicago PD is not capable of handling the current situation, and probably need more resources to do so.


I don't doubt it would but I think there are people their that are purposefully screwing you guys over. I'm telling you, your law enforcement and city government is being bought and paid for.
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46 / F / Reston, VA, USA
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Posted 6/2/16
I'm curious if anyone knows - how much of Chicago's crime is gang related? When I lived out West we had the Bloods & Crips and Outlaw Bikers like Hells Angels. Back here on the East Coast we've got MS-13 recruiting from the elementary school my sister teaches at.
runec 
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Posted 6/2/16

Razor_Girl wrote:
I'm curious if anyone knows - how much of Chicago's crime is gang related? When I lived out West we had the Bloods & Crips and Outlaw Bikers like Hells Angels. Back here on the East Coast we've got MS-13 recruiting from the elementary school my sister teaches at.


Most of it is and the majority of homicides in Chicago are gang related. Chicago has more gangs than any other city in the US and a huge problem with gang violence as a result. Couple that with an awful police force and systematic poverty and viola.

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46 / F / Reston, VA, USA
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16
Thanks Runec. I haven't been to Chicago since college so it's been since around 1992.

This link appears to give some historical background on the Chicago gangs: http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/gangs/chicago.html

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20 / Cold and High
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Posted 6/2/16
And I who thought it was run and gun party day?
Most have been mistaken..
*takes the pistol back in the pocket*
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16
No it is not a gun control issue. There is no correlation between gun laws and gun violence. Yet, interestingly, people try to claim causation, somehow, without even correlation.

So, what it is really about is culture, gangs, economical status and poverty, penalties for crime, and much more.

It is a really complex issue. For example, if we keep the streets safer from gangs, less people would join gangs, because people often join gangs for protection from other gangs. It's not like "Hey, being a gang member is cool." It's more like "The cops aren't going to keep me safe, so I need to find a way to be safer." Gangs provide protection. Yes, it also puts you into a bad situation, but the thing is - would you rather be in the middle of a warzone with allies or alone? That's basically what we're looking at here.
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Posted 6/2/16


Luckily the Chicago's saggy pants crew can't aim a gun properly and only 6 died. Funny how cities with relaxed gun laws have the least shootings, eh? Strict gun control only keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.
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Posted 6/2/16

VividDreamZ wrote:


CHICAGO (Sun-Times Media Wire) - Six people were killed, including a 15-year-old girl, and at least 63 others were wounded in shootings across Chicago over Memorial Day weekend.

The total number of people shot during the weekend this year surpassed the 2015 holiday, when 55 people were shot, 12 fatally, over Memorial Day weekend

The most recent homicide happened late Monday in the Washington Park neighborhood on the South Side.

Officers responding to a call of shots fired about 11 p.m. found James Taylor lying on the ground near his vehicle in the 5100 block of South Calumet, according to Chicago Police and the Cook County medical examiner’s office. Taylor, who lived in the 6500 block of South Ellis, had been shot in the chest and was pronounced dead at the scene, authorities said.

Witnesses at the scene were not cooperating with detectives.

About the same time, a man was shot to death in the West Rogers Park neighborhood on the North Side.

Officers responding to a call of shots fired about 11 p.m. found 39-year-old Johan Jean lying in a gangway in the 6400 block of North Rockwell, authorities said.

Jean, who lived in the 100 block of North Ashland in Evanston, was shot in the neck and taken to Presence Saint Francis Hospital in Evanston, where he was later pronounced dead, authorities said. Police said he was 25 years old.

A source said the shooting stemmed from a dispute between two women. One of them has a child with the man and the other was his girlfriend. Both women were armed, and the man was eventually shot during the argument. No weapons were recovered from the scene.

About 5:20 p.m. Saturday, a man was shot to death in the Fuller Park neighborhood on the South Side.

Garvin Whitmore, 27, was sitting in the driver seat of a vehicle with a passenger, 26-year-old Ashley Harrison, in the 200 block of West Root, when someone walked up to the vehicle and shot him in the head, according to police and the medical examiner’s office.

Whitmore, of the 5800 block of West 63rd Place, was pronounced dead at the scene at 5:29 p.m., authorities said.

After he was shot, Harrison got out of the vehicle, fired several shots as the shooter ran away and threw the weapon to the ground, police said. No one else was injured.

Harrison was charged with reckless discharge of a firearm and aggravated unlawful use of a weapon without a FOID card, and ordered held on a $250,000 bond during a Sunday hearing, authorities said. As of Sunday night, no one was in custody for the homicide.

Earlier Saturday, a 23-year-old man was shot to death in the Portage Park neighborhood on the Northwest Side.

Damien Cionzynski got into a fight with two other males inside a business about 5:15 a.m. in the 6300 block of West Montrose, according to police and the medical examiner’s office.

Cionzynski was shot in the head and pronounced dead at the scene, authorities said. He lived in the 4400 block of North Nashville Avenue in Harwood Heights.

A few hours earlier, 15-year-old Veronica Lopez was passenger in a vehicle with a 28-year-old man in the 2400 block of North Lake Shore Drive about 1:30 a.m. when a black Nissan pulled alongside them and someone inside opened fire, authorities said.

They drove to Presence Saint Joseph Hospital, and the girl was later transferred to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead at 2:59 a.m., authorities said. She lived in the 5100 block of West Fullerton.

The man was shot in the arm and suffered a graze wound to the head, police said. His condition had stabilized. Investigators think the shooting was either gang- or road rage-related.

The holiday weekend’s first fatal shooting happened late Friday, when a 25-year-old man was shot to death in the Ashburn neighborhood on the Southwest Side.

Just before 11 p.m., Mark Lindsey was sitting in a vehicle parked near his home in the 3700 block of West 75th Place when a gunman walked up and shot him repeatedly across the chest and body, authorities said. Lindsey tried to drive away, but crashed into another vehicle on the block.

He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn, where he was pronounced dead at 11:34 p.m., authorities said.

The latest nonfatal shooting happened early Tuesday in the Fernwood neighborhood on the Far South Side.

A 30-year-old man was standing outside about 1:45 a.m. in the 10200 block of South LaSalle Street when another male walked up, pulled out a gun and opened fire, police said. The shooter then ran away. The man was shot in the shoulder and taken to Christ Medical Center, where his condition was stabilized.

Less than an hour earlier, a man and a teenage girl were shot and wounded in the South Shore neighborhood. The 17-year-old girl was walking on the sidewalk about 12:50 a.m. in the 2600 block of East 73rd Street when she heard gunfire and felt pain, according to police. She was shot in the back and taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where her condition was stabilized. A 21-year-old man also suffered a gunshot wound to the back and later showed up at Northwestern, where he was listed in good condition.

About 30 minutes before that, four people suffered gunshot wounds when they were caught in crossfire in the East Garfield Park neighborhood on the West Side. The group was standing outside about 12:20 a.m. in the 3300 block of West Huron when two males started shooting at each other, police said. The four were all wounded when they got caught in the crossfire. A 52-year-old man was shot in the right foot and taken to Norwegian American Hospital. Two women, ages 18 and 19, and a 30-year-old man all suffered gunshot wounds to the legs. They were taken to Mount Sinai Hospital. All four victims were listed in good condition early Tuesday, police said.

At least 55 more people were wounded in other shootings across Chicago between 9:25 p.m. Friday and 9:30 p.m. Monday.

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/147553828-story

When does the government decide enough is enough and take action in situations like this? For this many shootings to occur over Memorial Day weekend alone is insane. The shootings and death rates are astronomical in Chicago.

What is even more insane is that this all mostly occurs in a few square mile radius in Chicago. I thought Chicago had strict gun laws? Which don't seem to be working. How are so many illegal weapons getting into the state?

The stop and frisk policy in NYC needs to be applied here, people will complain, and some cops will more than likely abuse it but it would seem very effective in lowering crime. Baltimore Maryland in it's worse parts put cameras on every corner and more cops on the streets to severely cripple the high drug trafficking.

Chicago should implement a instant death penalty for killing someone, especially if gang or drug related.

Certain parts of America are 3rd world, and something needs to be done to contain the violence.

What are your thoughts on this?

The problem with Chicago and so many other "third world" parts of the U.S. are our current "gun control" laws. While the nuts at the NRA. take things too far a lot of studies do back up a lot of their claims to a point. Criminal's don't always care about the law ( I know that sometimes holds true to civilians ) and establishing laws saying "guns/weapons are illegal here" actually puts the law-abiding citizen ( like many of those killed in Chicago over the weekend ) in danger. See the graph below.


runec 
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Posted 6/2/16

Anna_Maye-Shaun wrote:
The problem with Chicago and so many other "third world" parts of the U.S. are our current "gun control" laws. While the nuts at the NRA. take things too far a lot of studies do back up a lot of their claims to a point. Criminal's don't always care about the law ( I know that sometimes holds true to civilians ) and establishing laws saying "guns/weapons are illegal here" actually puts the law-abiding citizen ( like many of those killed in Chicago over the weekend ) in danger. See the graph below.


Yeah, thats not cherry picked at all.

Again, gun control is the least of Chicago's problems. Saying more guns will magically fix crime is just as flawed as saying less guns will magically fix crime. The only thing adding or subtracting more guns ultimately does is increase or decrease the chance of guns being used. You could take way every gun in Chicago tomorrow and the gangs would just start knife fighting instead. You could give everyone in Chicago a gun tomorrow and it would just result in more people being shot.

The root causes of systemic crime are social and economic issues, not control issues.
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