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Post Reply 6 dead, 63 wounded in Memorial Day weekend shootings
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Posted 6/2/16
I wonder how it'd affect the crime rates, or at least the conviction rates, if it became a crime against the lawyers and such not to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, as seems to be the case. It has been said that laws unenforced undermine all laws.

You would then have to look at why the laws aren't being enforced. Is it political? Are there just TOO MANY laws?

There is no magic bullet to explain Chicago, or another city in a similar situation to Chicago. It's a tangled skein of political machinations, social psychosis, economic nihilism, and even control issues.
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Posted 6/2/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Nuke it from orbit...


This is a bad plan. There are officially no weapons of mass destruction in space. So, we'd need to put them in space, first. Let's talk dollars. A space launch can cost anywhere from $50 mill to $500 mill. A nuclear bomb will cost us about $2 mil.

It would be much more cost efficient to move our capital to Chicago, continue to piss everyone else in the world off, and then just wait for the inevitable. That's something that would hardly be a blip on the current budget.


Officially......Also nukes are a bad idea, too much fallout. The Tungsten rods we have for kinetic bombardment work better.
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Posted 6/2/16


This poster is awesome, where is it from?
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16
It could have been much worse, especially this year. Chicago is a mess right now. No quick or easy fixes either. It's going to take time, money, and good policy to clean up Chicago, and all those things are in short supply in Illinois right now.

You know we didn't even manage to pass a budget last fiscal year? The budget for this fiscal year was due the other day, but the governor has vowed to veto it again; meaning we've gone a full 12 months with no budget. It's unlikely a compromise is coming any time soon.

The newly elected Republican governor wants "pro-business" and "anti-union" reforms, but refuses to raise taxes. Won't compromise. Typical millionaire businessman turned politician. The Democrats who have a stranglehold on state congress want to ignore the fiscal mess and forget about the underfunded, unsustainable pension funds. Just kicking the can down the road, like they have been for decades.

The result? No budget and little / no funding for anything. Seriously, they aren't even paying the electric bill. Schools may start closing early or shutting down entirely. It's out of control, and the best we can hope for is that Governor Rauner gets voted out and replaced with a Democrat who will continue borrowing and raising taxes until we dig ourselves so deep we can't recover.

I'm planning to leave Illinois in the next year, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Posted 6/2/16

Solefyre wrote:



This poster is awesome, where is it from?

http://americangunfacts.com/
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Posted 6/2/16

Solefyre wrote:



This poster is awesome, where is it from?


Google Image Search and Pinterest agree it was made by THE ITS CREW on April 29, 2013 and posted to their site at itstactical.com at that time.
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Posted 6/2/16

VividDreamZ wrote:


Solefyre wrote:



This poster is awesome, where is it from?

http://americangunfacts.com/





gornotck wrote:


Solefyre wrote:



This poster is awesome, where is it from?


Google Image Search and Pinterest agree it was made by THE ITS CREW on April 29, 2013 and posted to their site at itstactical.com at that time.


Thanks guys
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16

Xxanthar wrote:



Luckily the Chicago's saggy pants crew can't aim a gun properly and only 6 died. Funny how cities with relaxed gun laws have the least shootings, eh? Strict gun control only keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

I never quite understood why people actually shoot like that...

Both of those people in that picture are probably dead now since that picture was in 2007. Or in prison.

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Posted 6/2/16

Anna_Maye-Shaun wrote:

Giant Image


1) Your "self defense" statistics are coming from a source which has been drawn into question numerous times. Figures for self defense gun use in America have an absolutely massive range. Part of this is due to the heavy presence of false positives in self reporting of "self defense" uses of guns. Further, a majority of self reported "self defense" uses of guns are actually illegal or socially undesirable.

2) This self defense section draws a false conclusion. Even if there were that many self defense uses of guns, the idea that each one resulted in a life saved is unsubstantiated. Further, this also ignores a number of other crimes which involve the use of guns.

3) When talking about "women using guns to protect themselves", you are again relying on the extremely questionable Kleck. This statistic suffers many of the same issues that were pointed out in point 1. Further, when looking at gun presence in the home, it is significantly more likely that a gun be used to threaten, intimidate or harm someone in a domestic violence scenario than it is for the victim to use the gun in self defense.

4) Comparing the USA to third world countries when it comes to homicide rates isn't fair. How about we compare it to other western, first world nations:

United States - 3.8
Canada - 1.4
France - 1.2
Ireland - 1.1
UK - 1.0
Germany - 0.7
Spain - 0.6

I didn't include everything, but the US is signficantly higher than every other country that it would actually make sense to compare it to.

5) More guns = less crime? Thats not exactly an open and shut case. There are plenty of studies which found the opposite and plenty of times, studies concluding a causal link between guns and reduced crime have been called into question. This point holds for the concealed carry information presented a little further down the chart. This is far from a universally supported conclusion with plenty of studies calling this into question.

6) Is the UK more violent than the USA? Well lets look into that. These statistics are actually largely the result of different methods of measuring "violent crime" between different countries. Here is a quick look into that:

"The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person,’ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all ‘sexual offenses,’ as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and ‘forcible rapes.’ "

Already makes it a bit of a false comparison, but lets dig into this a little deeper with figures which are a little more comparable. I've made a little makeshift chart below

Crime | USA Rate | UK Rate
Murder | 3.8 | 1.0
Robbery| 113 | 135
Burglary| 702 | 460
Rape | 26.7 | 26
AgAssault| 241 | 34.7

That conclusion doesn't quite hold up to scrutiny...

7) Is violent crime on the rise in the UK? Its actually been declining since 1995 http://i2.wp.com/blog.skepticallibertarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Violent-crime-rates-UK-1981-to-2007.png

8) Worth noting for those "shooting rampage" statistics provided, the rampage stopped by citizen actually happens more often by completely unarmed citizens according to your source.
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Posted 6/2/16
Ive been around the block a good few times and ive taken lives and saved them. A firearm is a tool for good or evil that is dependent on who is behind the trigger, to blame the gun is as stupid as blaming spoons for making people fat. I live in Arizona where you can get a firearm legally within seconds without a waiting period. We do what other states do with the NICS but we take it a step further and call them instead of mailing the info. To blame law abiding citizens for the acts of gang violence is stupid, we have a gang problem not a gun problem. Even if we managed to get rid of all the guns, the criminals will just go to the next best thing to get what they want. People need to understand that its human nature to take what they want that they do not have, trust me ive seen it and it always results in violence.
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VividDreamZ wrote:


CHICAGO (Sun-Times Media Wire) - Six people were killed, including a 15-year-old girl, and at least 63 others were wounded in shootings across Chicago over Memorial Day weekend.

The total number of people shot during the weekend this year surpassed the 2015 holiday, when 55 people were shot, 12 fatally, over Memorial Day weekend

The most recent homicide happened late Monday in the Washington Park neighborhood on the South Side.

Officers responding to a call of shots fired about 11 p.m. found James Taylor lying on the ground near his vehicle in the 5100 block of South Calumet, according to Chicago Police and the Cook County medical examiner’s office. Taylor, who lived in the 6500 block of South Ellis, had been shot in the chest and was pronounced dead at the scene, authorities said.

Witnesses at the scene were not cooperating with detectives.

About the same time, a man was shot to death in the West Rogers Park neighborhood on the North Side.

Officers responding to a call of shots fired about 11 p.m. found 39-year-old Johan Jean lying in a gangway in the 6400 block of North Rockwell, authorities said.

Jean, who lived in the 100 block of North Ashland in Evanston, was shot in the neck and taken to Presence Saint Francis Hospital in Evanston, where he was later pronounced dead, authorities said. Police said he was 25 years old.

A source said the shooting stemmed from a dispute between two women. One of them has a child with the man and the other was his girlfriend. Both women were armed, and the man was eventually shot during the argument. No weapons were recovered from the scene.

About 5:20 p.m. Saturday, a man was shot to death in the Fuller Park neighborhood on the South Side.

Garvin Whitmore, 27, was sitting in the driver seat of a vehicle with a passenger, 26-year-old Ashley Harrison, in the 200 block of West Root, when someone walked up to the vehicle and shot him in the head, according to police and the medical examiner’s office.

Whitmore, of the 5800 block of West 63rd Place, was pronounced dead at the scene at 5:29 p.m., authorities said.

After he was shot, Harrison got out of the vehicle, fired several shots as the shooter ran away and threw the weapon to the ground, police said. No one else was injured.

Harrison was charged with reckless discharge of a firearm and aggravated unlawful use of a weapon without a FOID card, and ordered held on a $250,000 bond during a Sunday hearing, authorities said. As of Sunday night, no one was in custody for the homicide.

Earlier Saturday, a 23-year-old man was shot to death in the Portage Park neighborhood on the Northwest Side.

Damien Cionzynski got into a fight with two other males inside a business about 5:15 a.m. in the 6300 block of West Montrose, according to police and the medical examiner’s office.

Cionzynski was shot in the head and pronounced dead at the scene, authorities said. He lived in the 4400 block of North Nashville Avenue in Harwood Heights.

A few hours earlier, 15-year-old Veronica Lopez was passenger in a vehicle with a 28-year-old man in the 2400 block of North Lake Shore Drive about 1:30 a.m. when a black Nissan pulled alongside them and someone inside opened fire, authorities said.

They drove to Presence Saint Joseph Hospital, and the girl was later transferred to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead at 2:59 a.m., authorities said. She lived in the 5100 block of West Fullerton.

The man was shot in the arm and suffered a graze wound to the head, police said. His condition had stabilized. Investigators think the shooting was either gang- or road rage-related.

The holiday weekend’s first fatal shooting happened late Friday, when a 25-year-old man was shot to death in the Ashburn neighborhood on the Southwest Side.

Just before 11 p.m., Mark Lindsey was sitting in a vehicle parked near his home in the 3700 block of West 75th Place when a gunman walked up and shot him repeatedly across the chest and body, authorities said. Lindsey tried to drive away, but crashed into another vehicle on the block.

He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn, where he was pronounced dead at 11:34 p.m., authorities said.

The latest nonfatal shooting happened early Tuesday in the Fernwood neighborhood on the Far South Side.

A 30-year-old man was standing outside about 1:45 a.m. in the 10200 block of South LaSalle Street when another male walked up, pulled out a gun and opened fire, police said. The shooter then ran away. The man was shot in the shoulder and taken to Christ Medical Center, where his condition was stabilized.

Less than an hour earlier, a man and a teenage girl were shot and wounded in the South Shore neighborhood. The 17-year-old girl was walking on the sidewalk about 12:50 a.m. in the 2600 block of East 73rd Street when she heard gunfire and felt pain, according to police. She was shot in the back and taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where her condition was stabilized. A 21-year-old man also suffered a gunshot wound to the back and later showed up at Northwestern, where he was listed in good condition.

About 30 minutes before that, four people suffered gunshot wounds when they were caught in crossfire in the East Garfield Park neighborhood on the West Side. The group was standing outside about 12:20 a.m. in the 3300 block of West Huron when two males started shooting at each other, police said. The four were all wounded when they got caught in the crossfire. A 52-year-old man was shot in the right foot and taken to Norwegian American Hospital. Two women, ages 18 and 19, and a 30-year-old man all suffered gunshot wounds to the legs. They were taken to Mount Sinai Hospital. All four victims were listed in good condition early Tuesday, police said.

At least 55 more people were wounded in other shootings across Chicago between 9:25 p.m. Friday and 9:30 p.m. Monday.

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/147553828-story

When does the government decide enough is enough and take action in situations like this? For this many shootings to occur over Memorial Day weekend alone is insane. The shootings and death rates are astronomical in Chicago.

What is even more insane is that this all mostly occurs in a few square mile radius in Chicago. I thought Chicago had strict gun laws? Which don't seem to be working. How are so many illegal weapons getting into the state?

The stop and frisk policy in NYC needs to be applied here, people will complain, and some cops will more than likely abuse it but it would seem very effective in lowering crime. Baltimore Maryland in it's worse parts put cameras on every corner and more cops on the streets to severely cripple the high drug trafficking.

Chicago should implement a instant death penalty for killing someone, especially if gang or drug related.

Certain parts of America are 3rd world, and something needs to be done to contain the violence.

What are your thoughts on this?



Any gun control law is an infringement of our second amendment rights, by extension that is an attack on all of our other freedoms and so it should be seen as an act of tyranny giving sufficient justification for civil war (the south will rise again).

Build the wall, stop all immigration, stop Muslims from entering the country (possibly including the 3million US citizen who are Muslim).

Stop and frisk is racist. CCTV is police state.

The police already do implement instant death penalty for black people. Plenty of niggas get shot every week for all sorts of crimes, like walking, driving, or playing in a park.

It's not happening in my neighborhood, why should I care?

I hope the above gave you a better understanding of why nothing will be done about this issue.
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16

goodman528 wrote:


VividDreamZ wrote:


CHICAGO (Sun-Times Media Wire) - Six people were killed, including a 15-year-old girl, and at least 63 others were wounded in shootings across Chicago over Memorial Day weekend.

The total number of people shot during the weekend this year surpassed the 2015 holiday, when 55 people were shot, 12 fatally, over Memorial Day weekend

The most recent homicide happened late Monday in the Washington Park neighborhood on the South Side.

Officers responding to a call of shots fired about 11 p.m. found James Taylor lying on the ground near his vehicle in the 5100 block of South Calumet, according to Chicago Police and the Cook County medical examiner’s office. Taylor, who lived in the 6500 block of South Ellis, had been shot in the chest and was pronounced dead at the scene, authorities said.

Witnesses at the scene were not cooperating with detectives.

About the same time, a man was shot to death in the West Rogers Park neighborhood on the North Side.

Officers responding to a call of shots fired about 11 p.m. found 39-year-old Johan Jean lying in a gangway in the 6400 block of North Rockwell, authorities said.

Jean, who lived in the 100 block of North Ashland in Evanston, was shot in the neck and taken to Presence Saint Francis Hospital in Evanston, where he was later pronounced dead, authorities said. Police said he was 25 years old.

A source said the shooting stemmed from a dispute between two women. One of them has a child with the man and the other was his girlfriend. Both women were armed, and the man was eventually shot during the argument. No weapons were recovered from the scene.

About 5:20 p.m. Saturday, a man was shot to death in the Fuller Park neighborhood on the South Side.

Garvin Whitmore, 27, was sitting in the driver seat of a vehicle with a passenger, 26-year-old Ashley Harrison, in the 200 block of West Root, when someone walked up to the vehicle and shot him in the head, according to police and the medical examiner’s office.

Whitmore, of the 5800 block of West 63rd Place, was pronounced dead at the scene at 5:29 p.m., authorities said.

After he was shot, Harrison got out of the vehicle, fired several shots as the shooter ran away and threw the weapon to the ground, police said. No one else was injured.

Harrison was charged with reckless discharge of a firearm and aggravated unlawful use of a weapon without a FOID card, and ordered held on a $250,000 bond during a Sunday hearing, authorities said. As of Sunday night, no one was in custody for the homicide.

Earlier Saturday, a 23-year-old man was shot to death in the Portage Park neighborhood on the Northwest Side.

Damien Cionzynski got into a fight with two other males inside a business about 5:15 a.m. in the 6300 block of West Montrose, according to police and the medical examiner’s office.

Cionzynski was shot in the head and pronounced dead at the scene, authorities said. He lived in the 4400 block of North Nashville Avenue in Harwood Heights.

A few hours earlier, 15-year-old Veronica Lopez was passenger in a vehicle with a 28-year-old man in the 2400 block of North Lake Shore Drive about 1:30 a.m. when a black Nissan pulled alongside them and someone inside opened fire, authorities said.

They drove to Presence Saint Joseph Hospital, and the girl was later transferred to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead at 2:59 a.m., authorities said. She lived in the 5100 block of West Fullerton.

The man was shot in the arm and suffered a graze wound to the head, police said. His condition had stabilized. Investigators think the shooting was either gang- or road rage-related.

The holiday weekend’s first fatal shooting happened late Friday, when a 25-year-old man was shot to death in the Ashburn neighborhood on the Southwest Side.

Just before 11 p.m., Mark Lindsey was sitting in a vehicle parked near his home in the 3700 block of West 75th Place when a gunman walked up and shot him repeatedly across the chest and body, authorities said. Lindsey tried to drive away, but crashed into another vehicle on the block.

He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn, where he was pronounced dead at 11:34 p.m., authorities said.

The latest nonfatal shooting happened early Tuesday in the Fernwood neighborhood on the Far South Side.

A 30-year-old man was standing outside about 1:45 a.m. in the 10200 block of South LaSalle Street when another male walked up, pulled out a gun and opened fire, police said. The shooter then ran away. The man was shot in the shoulder and taken to Christ Medical Center, where his condition was stabilized.

Less than an hour earlier, a man and a teenage girl were shot and wounded in the South Shore neighborhood. The 17-year-old girl was walking on the sidewalk about 12:50 a.m. in the 2600 block of East 73rd Street when she heard gunfire and felt pain, according to police. She was shot in the back and taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where her condition was stabilized. A 21-year-old man also suffered a gunshot wound to the back and later showed up at Northwestern, where he was listed in good condition.

About 30 minutes before that, four people suffered gunshot wounds when they were caught in crossfire in the East Garfield Park neighborhood on the West Side. The group was standing outside about 12:20 a.m. in the 3300 block of West Huron when two males started shooting at each other, police said. The four were all wounded when they got caught in the crossfire. A 52-year-old man was shot in the right foot and taken to Norwegian American Hospital. Two women, ages 18 and 19, and a 30-year-old man all suffered gunshot wounds to the legs. They were taken to Mount Sinai Hospital. All four victims were listed in good condition early Tuesday, police said.

At least 55 more people were wounded in other shootings across Chicago between 9:25 p.m. Friday and 9:30 p.m. Monday.

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/147553828-story

When does the government decide enough is enough and take action in situations like this? For this many shootings to occur over Memorial Day weekend alone is insane. The shootings and death rates are astronomical in Chicago.

What is even more insane is that this all mostly occurs in a few square mile radius in Chicago. I thought Chicago had strict gun laws? Which don't seem to be working. How are so many illegal weapons getting into the state?

The stop and frisk policy in NYC needs to be applied here, people will complain, and some cops will more than likely abuse it but it would seem very effective in lowering crime. Baltimore Maryland in it's worse parts put cameras on every corner and more cops on the streets to severely cripple the high drug trafficking.

Chicago should implement a instant death penalty for killing someone, especially if gang or drug related.

Certain parts of America are 3rd world, and something needs to be done to contain the violence.

What are your thoughts on this?



Any gun control law is an infringement of our second amendment rights, by extension that is an attack on all of our other freedoms and so it should be seen as an act of tyranny giving sufficient justification for civil war (the south will rise again).

There is not anything that I have posted that would indicate any sort of reference to infringement to the second amendment.

Build the wall, stop all immigration, stop Muslims from entering the country (possibly including the 3million US citizen who are Muslim).

And how will this fix the current situation in Chicago?

Stop and frisk is racist. CCTV is police state.

Stop and frisk has its issues, but it actually worked. If you believe that it was ineffective, how would you actually fix the problem?

The police already do implement instant death penalty for black people. Plenty of niggas get shot every week for all sorts of crimes, like walking, driving, or playing in a park.

It's not happening in my neighborhood, why should I care?

It's not happening in your neighborhood now. What will you do if it actually does happen? Or if one of your loved ones are hit by a stray bullet in a area everyone assumed was safe?

I hope the above gave you a better understanding of why nothing will be done about this issue.

The person above me was referring someone else. Again, I haven't said anything about removing guns, or blaming guns. I simply wanted to know everyone's thoughts on how to stop the crime.

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Posted 6/2/16

Solefyre wrote:

I personally think its because the gun laws are strict. Criminals will always get guns, and for dirt cheap, due to the black market gun sale and sales of stolen firearms. Legally restricting firearms just takes away the ability for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves.

For example, if you were a criminal about to go on a shooting spree, would you choose the area that doesn't allow guns and has a low chance of someone stopping you before police arrive, or an area where everyone has a gun and you'll likely be shot when you pull your gun?

Its not a perfect system but guns do deter gun violence. Also take Switzerland as an example, their gun culture works. http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/



Probably would not be any less dangerous with everyone having a gun.

Guns do deter but they don't stop crime.

more guns isn't an answer to this problem
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Sounds like Chicago could use a Spider-Man... too bad I'm the only one! No thwips for you Chicago.
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Posted 6/2/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


Probably would not be any less dangerous with everyone having a gun.

Guns do deter but they don't stop crime.

more guns isn't an answer to this problem


You didn't read the article did you?
Its not necessarily about adding more guns to the equation, its about teaching gun safety to everyone, among other social changes we could make.


One of the reasons the crime rate in Switzerland is low despite the prevalence of weapons — and also why the Swiss mentality can’t be transposed to the current American reality — is the culture of responsibility and safety that is anchored in society and passed from generation to generation. Kids as young as 12 belong to gun groups in their local communities, where they learn sharpshooting. The Swiss Shooting Sports Association runs about 3,000 clubs and has 150,000 members, including a youth section. Many members keep their guns and ammunition at home, while others choose to leave them at the club. And yet, despite such easy access to pistols and rifles, “no members have ever used their guns for criminal purposes,” says Max Flueckiger, the association’s spokesperson.

“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings.

“If people have a responsible, disciplined and organized introduction into an activity like shooting, there will be less risk of gun violence,” he tells TIME.

That sense of social and civic responsibility is one of the reasons the Swiss have never allowed their guns to come under fire.
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