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Post Reply Should US voting age be lowered to 16?
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Posted 6/2/16
No, and it shouldn't even be 18, it should be at least 21. Would also prefer to see some kind of competency exam every 4-8 years to ensure you have the capacity to make a rational informed decision and aren't just marking a ballot because you can. The exam would be basic arithmetic, language, and reasoning skills.

As for an explanation about why I don't think kids should vote, is because they haven't been in the real world yet, most of them don't really have any real understanding of how their decisions will actually affect their community and their nation.

The only exception to this is military personal, I do think they have a right to vote since they are fighting for the country.

Side note, did you know Canadian Law on sweepstakes and lottos require the winner to perform a basic four part math problem with no aids in order to claim their prize?
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Posted 6/2/16

1stladyent wrote:


Hassan550 wrote:


1stladyent wrote:


Hassan550 wrote:


1stladyent wrote:

How about, instead of considering race, age, social status, etc. they restrict it to diplomatic aptitude and ample education? And by education, I mean a good enough understanding of political science, current affairs and the political system within one's own resident nation.


Yeah the problem with that is a it's undemocratic and b that makes Wilson our only president eligible to vote. Also that essentially eliminates lower class voters which cuts out a good chunk of minorities.


Not exactly, it could be like applying for a job or internship. It doesn't cost anything to get on the internet or go to the library to do the research. Like naturalized citizens, in order to vote, you can test in. I didn't say anything about proof of a degree, and if those who were passionate enough to vote and want to vote wisely, it wouldn't hurt to hit the books. For free. And it still has nothing to do with statistical demographics or ethnographics.


We don't have the money for that at all. lso it totally has to do with demographics certain demographics are less likely to have the proper education or the access to public service centers. Also who writes the test politicians can't they'll try to skew it to fit their ideology


Fair enough, I see what you're saying.

Politicians can't and won't write the test. The UN can step in and help write it. And of course there's no money for it. There's no money for everything actually, with a $19.5 trillion deficit, but allocation can be done, just like everything else. I've seen homeless people get access to the internet just to learn what they can, so what I'm saying is that narrowing the vote eligibility to the "educated" will whittle down the numbers of votes, making it easier to calculate, lowering the expense of ballot tracking and other neutral/unbiased positions employed due to the election. Those who are willing to put in the effort to do their research on placing someone in a leadership position are those who deserve to vote responsibly. You don't have to have a Ph.D, heck even an Associates or a HS Diploma to be educated.


Unfortunately we have a very strong distrust of the UN and essentially treat it like a giant stage for a pissing contest no one would let the UN touch a law that big.

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Posted 6/2/16

Hassan550 wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


Hassan550 wrote:
We don't have the money for that at all. lso it totally has to do with demographics certain demographics are less likely to have the proper education or the access to public service centers. Also who writes the test politicians can't they'll try to skew it to fit their ideology


My argument to this is simply that we cannot raise humanity without raising expectations. Education is much easier to acquire for everyone than it used to be, so there is little excuse for not being able to meet a very low education requirement. Also, study material could be provided free of charge, for those in need.

At some point, we'll have to raise our expectations of humanity, including minorities, and be held accountable for those expectations, if we ever expect to advance.

I feel like saying "But, too many of thisorthatdemographic will be unable to meet the requirements." ....when we have ample opportunity... is no longer cutting it.


Unfortunately it is true that certain demographics are poorer and statistically poor neighborhoods have significantly worse educational institutions also in many of these communities education isn't a cultural value so it's not that they can't it's that just like being politically active is a trained behavior for you and me for them it's trained not to be.


Certain demographics are more likely to drop out of school, and get worse grades as well.
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Posted 6/2/16

Solefyre wrote:

No, and it shouldn't even be 18, it should be at least 21. Would also prefer to see some kind of competency exam every 4-8 years to ensure you have the capacity to make a rational informed decision and aren't just marking a ballot because you can. The exam would be basic arithmetic, language, and reasoning skills.

As for an explanation about why I don't think kids should vote, is because they haven't been in the real world yet, most of them don't really have any real understanding of how their decisions will actually affect their community and their nation.

The only exception to this is military personal, I do think they have a right to vote since they are fighting for the country.

Side note, did you know Canadian Law on sweepstakes and lottos require the winner to perform a basic four part math problem with no aids in order to claim their prize?


Something like this test, I'm hoping

https://youtu.be/pRU5Zj5QelE
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Posted 6/2/16

Solefyre wrote:

No, and it shouldn't even be 18, it should be at least 21. Would also prefer to see some kind of competency exam every 4-8 years to ensure you have the capacity to make a rational informed decision and aren't just marking a ballot because you can. The exam would be basic arithmetic, language, and reasoning skills.

As for an explanation about why I don't think kids should vote, is because they haven't been in the real world yet, most of them don't really have any real understanding of how their decisions will actually affect their community and their nation.

The only exception to this is military personal, I do think they have a right to vote since they are fighting for the country.

Side note, did you know Canadian Law on sweepstakes and lottos require the winner to perform a basic four part math problem with no aids in order to claim their prize?


The reason it was lowered to 21 is 18 is the age you can be drafted and the logic was if you are old enough to die for your country you are old enough to vote.
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Posted 6/2/16

Senjougahara_Hitagi wrote:


Hassan550 wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


Hassan550 wrote:
We don't have the money for that at all. lso it totally has to do with demographics certain demographics are less likely to have the proper education or the access to public service centers. Also who writes the test politicians can't they'll try to skew it to fit their ideology


My argument to this is simply that we cannot raise humanity without raising expectations. Education is much easier to acquire for everyone than it used to be, so there is little excuse for not being able to meet a very low education requirement. Also, study material could be provided free of charge, for those in need.

At some point, we'll have to raise our expectations of humanity, including minorities, and be held accountable for those expectations, if we ever expect to advance.

I feel like saying "But, too many of thisorthatdemographic will be unable to meet the requirements." ....when we have ample opportunity... is no longer cutting it.


Unfortunately it is true that certain demographics are poorer and statistically poor neighborhoods have significantly worse educational institutions also in many of these communities education isn't a cultural value so it's not that they can't it's that just like being politically active is a trained behavior for you and me for them it's trained not to be.


Certain demographics are more likely to drop out of school, and get worse grades as well.


That's kinda where I'm going. If nurture is truly king, then you're drive to do this and your feelings of civil service are determined by your upbringing not equal for everyone.
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Posted 6/2/16
You know we could pay off our deficit really quickly if we just stopped giving aid to the rest of the world. We spend $35 billion on aid in 2014. However, we won't do that because the policy of the IMF is that any country that receives aid from them is under their laws, which means that they pretty much control the world

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/spends-billion-foreign/
http://www.sharing.org/information-centre/reports/decommissioning-imf-world-bank-and-wto
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Posted 6/2/16

FruitPunchSamurai987 wrote:

Not a good idea. In the US most schools make seniors take government class, which is the year that almost all students earn the right to vote. Therefore, if the age was lowered, we'd either have even more uneducated voters or the educational system would have to be changed to take this lower age into account, which comes with its own set of issues.


You think a high school class makes people earn the right to vote. That's cute.

Honestly, in my opinion, few have earned the right to vote. Those men and women in uniform have earned the right to vote..... luckily, they earned it for everyone else, too.
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Posted 6/2/16

Solefyre wrote:

You know we could pay off our deficit really quickly if we just stopped giving aid to the rest of the world. We spend $35 billion on aid in 2014. However, we won't do that because the policy of the IMF is that any country that receives aid from them is under their laws, which means that they pretty much control the world

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/spends-billion-foreign/
http://www.sharing.org/information-centre/reports/decommissioning-imf-world-bank-and-wto


The only way to pay off the debt is to wait for inflation to catch up. 35 billion is a drop in the bucket with 14 trillion it would take a couple hundred years to pay that off from the adorable 35 bil amount in foreign aid.
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Posted 6/2/16 , edited 6/2/16

Senjougahara_Hitagi wrote:


Solefyre wrote:

No, and it shouldn't even be 18, it should be at least 21. Would also prefer to see some kind of competency exam every 4-8 years to ensure you have the capacity to make a rational informed decision and aren't just marking a ballot because you can. The exam would be basic arithmetic, language, and reasoning skills.

As for an explanation about why I don't think kids should vote, is because they haven't been in the real world yet, most of them don't really have any real understanding of how their decisions will actually affect their community and their nation.

The only exception to this is military personal, I do think they have a right to vote since they are fighting for the country.

Side note, did you know Canadian Law on sweepstakes and lottos require the winner to perform a basic four part math problem with no aids in order to claim their prize?


Something like this test, I'm hoping

https://youtu.be/pRU5Zj5QelE


Sure why not, no trick questions though, just prove that A) you can understand basic concepts B ) you understand English C) you don't have a mental handicap.
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Posted 6/2/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:


FruitPunchSamurai987 wrote:

Not a good idea. In the US most schools make seniors take government class, which is the year that almost all students earn the right to vote. Therefore, if the age was lowered, we'd either have even more uneducated voters or the educational system would have to be changed to take this lower age into account, which comes with its own set of issues.


You think a high school class makes people earn the right to vote. That's cute.

Honestly, in my opinion, few have earned the right to vote. Those men and women in uniform have earned the right to vote..... luckily, they earned it for everyone else, too.

In America, being a citizen earns you the right to vote, no matter your qualifications. There's no changing that without undoing centuries of progress. Taking a class to learn about the political system and election processes better educates kids who might not even know what the major political parties are so they don't vote uninformed, which in my opinion can only help our country. These high school government classes are more comprehensive than you seem to give them credit for.
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Posted 6/2/16
18 and hold a government ID
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Posted 6/2/16
I don't think we should lower the voting age because honestly 18 is still pretty young in our culture, and 16 is still a child by most standards.

It would be interesting if there was a youth vote. Not one that would actually count, but a separate vote run parallel to the real election. It would give the youth a way to be involved, and provide demographic information. I doubt it would be popular or useful enough to warrant the cost of doing it though.

In terms of reforming the election system; I support independent/sensible redistricting, mandatory voting, easier entry for outsider candidates, and major reforms to campaign finance.
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Posted 6/2/16
in today's daycare generation where teens think they are entitled to everything without working for it? NOPE!!

where they want safe spaces from reality and where they hate free speech but their own.........yeah still NOPE.
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Posted 6/2/16

FruitPunchSamurai987 wrote:
In America, being a citizen earns you the right to vote, no matter your qualifications. There's no changing that without undoing centuries of progress. Taking a class to learn about the political system and election processes better educates kids who might not even know what the major political parties are so they don't vote uninformed, which in my opinion can only help our country. These high school government classes are more comprehensive than you seem to give them credit for.


Wrong. Earn implies you did something to gain it.

As I said, the only people who earned the right to vote are those who fought for it....which, I'd argue, mostly includes the military.

Voting is a right. You DON'T earn them. If you had to earn rights, then a lot less people would have rights.

Those who fight for those rights earn them for everyone.


AND, it has nothing to do with how comprehensive these high school classes are or are not..... which, I might add, is not as much as I would like them to be. Regardless of how I feel about it, regardless of how you feel about it, regardless of if these classes educate kids enough or not.... it is not earning jack squat.

Again, rights are rights. If they were something to be earned, they wouldn't be rights.
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