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Post Reply Father of convicted rapist says son should not be punished for "20 minutes of action."
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Posted 6/6/16

maxgale wrote:


Markest1 wrote:

Why must politics or race come up in every conversation and thread?

Because that is what the topic is literally about.

People saying the guy got off because of his race and money.

People debating political philosophies with differing views on crime and punishment.

The argument with recidivism is generally that due to difficulty getting legitimate work after prison, many former inmates have little other choice than to (re)turn to crime to support themselves.

By that logic, you might argue about the potential for him to become a drug dealer, or convenience store robber, or even a pimp after emerging from prison; but how he might be forced to rape people in order to put food on his table is a mystery.
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Posted 6/6/16 , edited 6/6/16

Nogara-san wrote:


maxgale wrote:

If the purpose of prison should be reforming the criminal, as the Left so often says, and this was his first offense, and he is likely to not commit the crime again, then why put him in prison other than for punishment?


Does everything the Left says about prisons creating terrible prospects for felons who are "forced" to return to crime now become invalid?


Will they take responsibility for all the rapes he is "forced" to commit if he goes to prison?










Poor widdle rich boy. How dare that whore slander him? (sarcastic)


Go blank yourself. What the hell would you do if this was your daughter?




Ask myself what sort of lousy parent I was who made my daughter think passing out drunk with strangers was a good idea.



While I'm otherwise busy making sure the guy couldn't reproduce. I'd have a feeling his screaming would become annoying after a while, so I'd prefer to focus on that philosophical quandary.









Nogara-san wrote:

It's not exactly about whether you're a democrat or Republican though.

I mean, would you seriously be okay if this guy raped your daughter?




It is tho.


Lefty judges letting child rapists go, or people who commit other terrible crimes, is an actual perversion of justice that doesn't always get the media focus it should.

qwueri 
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Posted 6/6/16

maxgale wrote:

I agree, which is why I think it is worth discussing why people can recognise it as such when it comes to this form of crime, but not others.


Feels like this is veering wildly off topic, but I'll bite: what instances of crime do you think liberals are being so soft as to advocate no punishment? Slippery slope arguments are considered fallacies because they dodge the subject at hand to claim worse will follow as if it's self evident (it isn't). I've yet to see liberal policy advocate no punishment, or even lighter punishment, for violent crimes like rape. Which leaves your entire premise feeling like it came out of left field to inject political argument where there wasn't to begin with.
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Posted 6/6/16
I understand why people hate labels. It's because of the "us vs them" mentality Maxgale and I have. I'm truly sorry.
Posted 6/6/16

maxgale wrote:

If the purpose of prison should be reforming the criminal, as the Left so often says, and this was his first offense, and he is likely to not commit the crime again, then why put him in prison other than for punishment?


Does everything the Left says about prisons creating terrible prospects for felons who are "forced" to return to crime now become invalid?


Will they take responsibility for all the rapes he is "forced" to commit if he goes to prison?







Why are.... Why are you forcing crap like 3 wave feminist nazis?
Posted 6/6/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I understand why people hate labels. It's because of the "us vs them" mentality Maxgale and I have. I'm truly sorry. :(


I just rather stay in the middle ground. Maybe being neutral and being objective is too advance for people?
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Posted 6/6/16

KarenAraragi wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I understand why people hate labels. It's because of the "us vs them" mentality Maxgale and I have. I'm truly sorry. :(


I just rather stay in the middle ground. Maybe being neutral and being objective is too advance for people?


Being neutral and being objective aren't the same as moderates tend to think. Just saying.
Posted 6/6/16


Need sauce for your profile pic?
Posted 6/6/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


KarenAraragi wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I understand why people hate labels. It's because of the "us vs them" mentality Maxgale and I have. I'm truly sorry. :(


I just rather stay in the middle ground. Maybe being neutral and being objective is too advance for people?


Being neutral and being objective aren't the same as moderates tend to think. Just saying.


PV I not a moderate. When I say neutral I meant listing to both sides and try to come to a solution that pleases both sides.

You just label me didn't you?
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Posted 6/6/16
Meanwhile in the USA: Father tries to make Daughter marry Rapist

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/05/26/christian-dad-took-his-14-year-old-to-her-rapist-and-made-them-get-married/

He got jail time later. Showing both sides of the coin. Fun stuff.
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Posted 6/6/16

KarenAraragi wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


KarenAraragi wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I understand why people hate labels. It's because of the "us vs them" mentality Maxgale and I have. I'm truly sorry. :(


I just rather stay in the middle ground. Maybe being neutral and being objective is too advance for people?


Being neutral and being objective aren't the same as moderates tend to think. Just saying.


PV I not a moderate. When I say neutral I meant listing to both sides and try to come to a solution that pleases both sides.

You just label me didn't you?


Moderates are my enemies too. I'm sorry...
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Posted 6/6/16 , edited 6/6/16

kinga750 wrote:


maxgale wrote:

If the purpose of prison should be reforming the criminal, as the Left so often says, and this was his first offense, and he is likely to not commit the crime again, then why put him in prison other than for punishment?


Does everything the Left says about prisons creating terrible prospects for felons who are "forced" to return to crime now become invalid?


Will they take responsibility for all the rapes he is "forced" to commit if he goes to prison?


First, not everything is about politics.

Second, not everyone left of center sees the justice system this way. You are generalizing, creating an argument out of nothing, and assigning sides and values to arbitrarily fit your own beliefs. To make it worse, it's not even a strong or coherent argument as you state it.





First, yes, yes it is.


Second, no, no I am not. If I were, there would not be entire countries where this is their attitude:


http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/europe/norway-prison-bastoy-nicest



Where someone can commit some of the most appalling crimes and be out of jail in their early 30s.



Or, if we are being honest, their 20s:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-burns-pregnant-girlfriend-alive-because-he-did-not-want-to-be-father-germany-a6888806.html
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Posted 6/6/16 , edited 6/6/16
Luckily, they're trying to get the judge thrown off the bench. While it won't help this woman here it will most likely make sure it doesn't happen again as far as in this courthouse.

The judge was more out of line than anyone. He looked at it as the fact the kid lost his scholarship and got registered as an offender was punishment for the crime at hand...neither was. They were both punishment for the kid having the intelligence of a baboon and the criminal tendencies of a thug. Right until the end he didn't own up to the attack, only owning up to being drunk under age and "promiscuous"...since when is it "promiscuous" to rape an unconscious woman? Maybe next time he gets drunk the same thing will happen to him, then he'll smarten up. You've been seeing a lot of "coaches" getting arrested for that sort of thing in the news as of late.
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Posted 6/6/16

maxgale wrote:


kinga750 wrote:


maxgale wrote:

If the purpose of prison should be reforming the criminal, as the Left so often says, and this was his first offense, and he is likely to not commit the crime again, then why put him in prison other than for punishment?


Does everything the Left says about prisons creating terrible prospects for felons who are "forced" to return to crime now become invalid?


Will they take responsibility for all the rapes he is "forced" to commit if he goes to prison?


First, not everything is about politics.

Second, not everyone left of center sees the justice system this way. You are generalizing, creating an argument out of nothing, and assigning sides and values to arbitrarily fit your own beliefs. To make it worse, it's not even a strong or coherent argument as you state it.





First, yes, yes it is.


Second, no, no I am not. If I were not, there would not be entire countries where this is their attitude:


http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/24/world/europe/norway-prison-bastoy-nicest



Where someone can commit some of the most appalling crimes and be out of jail in their early 30s.



Or, if we are being honest, their 20s:



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-burns-pregnant-girlfriend-alive-because-he-did-not-want-to-be-father-germany-a6888806.html


You were the first one to bring up politics, so you created the argument. Then you take the most extreme examples of lenient justice systems and assume everyone on the left supports them. Meaning you assigned sides and values preemptively to suit your own beliefs. Then you ignore the actual possible discussion about the issue you raised out of nowhere, and instead focus on bashing people with different politics than you. Bravo.
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Posted 6/6/16

iriomote wrote:


maxgale wrote:


Markest1 wrote:

Why must politics or race come up in every conversation and thread?

Because that is what the topic is literally about.

People saying the guy got off because of his race and money.

People debating political philosophies with differing views on crime and punishment.

The argument with recidivism is generally that due to difficulty getting legitimate work after prison, many former inmates have little other choice than to (re)turn to crime to support themselves.

By that logic, you might argue about the potential for him to become a drug dealer, or convenience store robber, or even a pimp after emerging from prison; but how he might be forced to rape people in order to put food on his table is a mystery.



It's not just the belief of being "forced" to turn to crime for economic reasons when one is a convicted felon.


In Europe there is the belief, and it is one shared here in the U.S. by some within the Left, that putting someone in prison turns them into the most violent criminal imaginable. That any and all crimes (not just for economic reasons, but just as expressions of inhumane brutality) are the "fault" of the society which punished the criminal, not the criminals themselves.




qwueri wrote:


maxgale wrote:

I agree, which is why I think it is worth discussing why people can recognise it as such when it comes to this form of crime, but not others.


Feels like this is veering wildly off topic, but I'll bite: what instances of crime do you think liberals are being so soft as to advocate no punishment? Slippery slope arguments are considered fallacies because they dodge the subject at hand to claim worse will follow as if it's self evident (it isn't). I've yet to see liberal policy advocate no punishment, or even lighter punishment, for violent crimes like rape. Which leaves your entire premise feeling like it came out of left field to inject political argument where there wasn't to begin with.




In Europe?


All of them.


In the U.S.?


Sex crimes committed by women, mitigation of crimes by minorities ("their environment is at fault, not them").


There is a disturbing element of sexism and paternal racism in the Left in America.




PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I understand why people hate labels. It's because of the "us vs them" mentality Maxgale and I have. I'm truly sorry. :(




Did you read the CNN and Independent links I gave?





KarenAraragi wrote:


maxgale wrote:

If the purpose of prison should be reforming the criminal, as the Left so often says, and this was his first offense, and he is likely to not commit the crime again, then why put him in prison other than for punishment?


Does everything the Left says about prisons creating terrible prospects for felons who are "forced" to return to crime now become invalid?


Will they take responsibility for all the rapes he is "forced" to commit if he goes to prison?







Why are.... Why are you forcing crap like 3 wave feminist nazis?





Huh?



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