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Post Reply What Is The IQ Of A Computer?
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Posted 6/8/16
I am majoring in Computer Science in college and one of the first things they teach us is that computers are incredibly stupid. What they are good at is doing things very fast without making mistakes. Computers can't think for themselves and can only do things exactly as a programmer told them how to do it. They may seem smart, but that's only because they can do tasks very quickly (ex: summing numbers 1-1000000).

Computers don't think for themselves and can't solve things without being given some sort of method first. Since IQ tests judge how well you can solve new, abstract problems, computers would do incredibly poorly taking one.
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Posted 6/8/16 , edited 6/8/16

nanikore2 wrote:

...If only all philosophical debates and logical proofs can be turned away with a simple "she/he is stuck with their opinion".

Proofs have nothing to do with opinion.

"Entitled to opinion" Logical fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_entitled_to_my_opinion

As I've said, if people actually want me to elaborate on the issue I can do so in another thread.


But it is your opinion your proof is all philosophy and assumes biological consciousness is special.

No one wants you to elaborate because your opinion is not proof at all.

Move on and stop acting like you know everything because you don't none of us have no idea if it's possible or not whether or not it will be is very likely to change in the future when we understand consciousness better.

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Posted 6/8/16

Laura_Bodewig wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

Intelligence is measured ability to solve various problems.

We have artificial intelligence that could exceed natural intelligence at various tasks, simply because machines can use brute processing speed (brute force) to outrun human problem solving.

However, intelligence does not equal consciousness. There isn't, and never going to be, artificial consciousness. I can elaborate on it but that would be off topic.


I wouldn't say never. I mean, they said we'd never use 1GB of storage or RAM in our PCs and we're using multiples of TB nowadays for storage and the average PC has 16GB of RAM.


I will very briefly address this one.

Consciousness does not arise out of complexity.

If complexity gives rise to consciousness, then cell phones today would be conscious.

A8 processor in Apple iPhone 6: 2 billion transistors
House mouse: 71,000,000 neurons
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Posted 6/8/16

GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:

Obviously zero. Think of a computer as a human brain with a set amount of memory working at an incredible speed. Much like even animals can be taught to do something they don't understand through repetition, computers simply regurgitate knowledge, knowing nothing themselves. Just try getting into computer science to learn how lacking in intelligence computers are. I find AI's make a mockery of real intelligence. If an IQ test is simply testing your ability to repeat knowledge, then I guess computers are smart.


If that was all computers were capable of then they wouldn't be able to beat go masters. They've developed computers that practice reinforcement learning, playing perhaps 3 million games of go a day in order to learn whereas humans only play a few a day.

Result: The machine has beaten go masters without brute force computation in which the program merely examines all possible moves and acts on a winning combination. Brute force computation works for chess but go has massively trillions more possible moves than the number of atoms in the universe, meaning you could not hope to build a computer with enough processing power to win without figuring out new tricks unless you would like to turn the galaxy into a computer.

Machines have also begin programmed to "survive in the environment" and thrown out into one with other machines to figure out how to learn to survive. Result: they cooperated with each other instead of being greedy like most would expect.
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Posted 6/8/16

RedExodus wrote:


GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:

Obviously zero. Think of a computer as a human brain with a set amount of memory working at an incredible speed. Much like even animals can be taught to do something they don't understand through repetition, computers simply regurgitate knowledge, knowing nothing themselves. Just try getting into computer science to learn how lacking in intelligence computers are. I find AI's make a mockery of real intelligence. If an IQ test is simply testing your ability to repeat knowledge, then I guess computers are smart.


If that was all computers were capable of then they wouldn't be able to beat go masters. They've developed computers that practice reinforcement learning, playing perhaps 3 million games of go a day in order to learn whereas humans only play a few a day.

Result: The machine has beaten go masters without brute force computation in which the program merely examines all possible moves and acts on a winning combination. Brute force computation works for chess but go has massively trillions more possible moves than the number of atoms in the universe, meaning you could not hope to build a computer with enough processing power to win without figuring out new tricks unless you would like to turn the galaxy into a computer.

Machines have also begin programmed to "survive in the environment" and thrown out into one with other machines to figure out how to learn to survive. Result: they cooperated with each other instead of being greedy like most would expect.


Can human beings examine all possible moves at once?

I would say this very act constitutes brute force.
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Posted 6/8/16

nanikore2 wrote:


RedExodus wrote:


GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:

Obviously zero. Think of a computer as a human brain with a set amount of memory working at an incredible speed. Much like even animals can be taught to do something they don't understand through repetition, computers simply regurgitate knowledge, knowing nothing themselves. Just try getting into computer science to learn how lacking in intelligence computers are. I find AI's make a mockery of real intelligence. If an IQ test is simply testing your ability to repeat knowledge, then I guess computers are smart.


If that was all computers were capable of then they wouldn't be able to beat go masters. They've developed computers that practice reinforcement learning, playing perhaps 3 million games of go a day in order to learn whereas humans only play a few a day.

Result: The machine has beaten go masters without brute force computation in which the program merely examines all possible moves and acts on a winning combination. Brute force computation works for chess but go has massively trillions more possible moves than the number of atoms in the universe, meaning you could not hope to build a computer with enough processing power to win without figuring out new tricks unless you would like to turn the galaxy into a computer.

Machines have also begin programmed to "survive in the environment" and thrown out into one with other machines to figure out how to learn to survive. Result: they cooperated with each other instead of being greedy like most would expect.


Can human beings examine all possible moves at once?

I would say this very act constitutes brute force.


I believe you misread, I just said that's what it doesn't do.

nanikore2 wrote:


Laura_Bodewig wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

Intelligence is measured ability to solve various problems.

We have artificial intelligence that could exceed natural intelligence at various tasks, simply because machines can use brute processing speed (brute force) to outrun human problem solving.

However, intelligence does not equal consciousness. There isn't, and never going to be, artificial consciousness. I can elaborate on it but that would be off topic.


I wouldn't say never. I mean, they said we'd never use 1GB of storage or RAM in our PCs and we're using multiples of TB nowadays for storage and the average PC has 16GB of RAM.


I will very briefly address this one.

Consciousness does not arise out of complexity.

If complexity gives rise to consciousness, then cell phones today would be conscious.

A8 processor in Apple iPhone 6: 2 billion transistors
House mouse: 71,000,000 neurons


idk man, individual cells are not conscious nor are they conscious when you arrange them into a complex biological computer that is made traditionally from logic. It is believed that the brain is conscious because of emergent properties in which specific properties emerge from using just the right configuration of matter over mere complexity. For example, hydrogen isn't wet nor is oxygen. If you arrange them into a sick troll face pattern of H109O522, it won't be wet either. It has to be specifically H2O. If you assume that you don't know consciousness can arise from cells, how exactly do you prove or disprove its possibility?

I simply don't understand how non-existence is proved in this case
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving_Non_Existence
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Posted 6/8/16

RedExodus wrote:


You said the computer didn't do brute force, and I said it does... I don't think I've misread the quote.

The proof of the impossibility of machine consciousness lay elsewhere than that. I'll just start a new thread since consciousness here is off topic.
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Posted 6/8/16 , edited 6/8/16

nanikore2 wrote:

You said the computer didn't do brute force, and I said it does... I don't think I've misread the quote.

The proof of the impossibility of machine consciousness lay elsewhere than that. I'll just start a new thread since consciousness here is off topic.

Well you began with "Can human beings examine all possible moves at once?", what was I supposed to think? I said the go machine does not examine all possible moves.
I forgot which video/article I originally used as a reference but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-dKXOlsf98
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Posted 6/8/16

RedExodus wrote:


GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:

Obviously zero. Think of a computer as a human brain with a set amount of memory working at an incredible speed. Much like even animals can be taught to do something they don't understand through repetition, computers simply regurgitate knowledge, knowing nothing themselves. Just try getting into computer science to learn how lacking in intelligence computers are. I find AI's make a mockery of real intelligence. If an IQ test is simply testing your ability to repeat knowledge, then I guess computers are smart.


If that was all computers were capable of then they wouldn't be able to beat go masters. They've developed computers that practice reinforcement learning, playing perhaps 3 million games of go a day in order to learn whereas humans only play a few a day.

Result: The machine has beaten go masters without brute force computation in which the program merely examines all possible moves and acts on a winning combination. Brute force computation works for chess but go has massively trillions more possible moves than the number of atoms in the universe, meaning you could not hope to build a computer with enough processing power to win without figuring out new tricks unless you would like to turn the galaxy into a computer.

Machines have also begin programmed to "survive in the environment" and thrown out into one with other machines to figure out how to learn to survive. Result: they cooperated with each other instead of being greedy like most would expect.




If you can memorize every move it isn't a game, more like a process. As far as AI going up against humans, that's pretty interesting.
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Posted 6/8/16

GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:


RedExodus wrote:


GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:

Obviously zero. Think of a computer as a human brain with a set amount of memory working at an incredible speed. Much like even animals can be taught to do something they don't understand through repetition, computers simply regurgitate knowledge, knowing nothing themselves. Just try getting into computer science to learn how lacking in intelligence computers are. I find AI's make a mockery of real intelligence. If an IQ test is simply testing your ability to repeat knowledge, then I guess computers are smart.


If that was all computers were capable of then they wouldn't be able to beat go masters. They've developed computers that practice reinforcement learning, playing perhaps 3 million games of go a day in order to learn whereas humans only play a few a day.

Result: The machine has beaten go masters without brute force computation in which the program merely examines all possible moves and acts on a winning combination. Brute force computation works for chess but go has massively trillions more possible moves than the number of atoms in the universe, meaning you could not hope to build a computer with enough processing power to win without figuring out new tricks unless you would like to turn the galaxy into a computer.

Machines have also begin programmed to "survive in the environment" and thrown out into one with other machines to figure out how to learn to survive. Result: they cooperated with each other instead of being greedy like most would expect.




If you can memorize every move it isn't a game, more like a process. As far as AI going up against humans, that's pretty interesting.


omg I said the go machines do not memorize every move whereas chess machines do

i said reinforcement learning lol
"Reinforcement learning differs from standard supervised learning in that correct input/output pairs are never presented, nor sub-optimal actions explicitly corrected. Further, there is a focus on on-line performance, which involves finding a balance between exploration (of uncharted territory) and exploitation (of current knowledge)."
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Posted 6/8/16 , edited 6/8/16

RedExodus wrote:

Well you began with "Can human beings examine all possible moves at once?", what was I supposed to think? I said the go machine does not examine all possible moves.
I forgot which video/article I originally used as a reference but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-dKXOlsf98


I misunderstood your sentence.
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Posted 6/8/16 , edited 6/8/16

nanikore2 wrote:

I misunderstood your sentence.

oh ok
welp sometimes ppl gotta go fast

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Posted 6/8/16
Computers may have an intelligence quotient but I don't regard computers themselves being intelligent.
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Posted 6/8/16
look until we invent a silent vacuum i think we shouldn't mess with artificial intelligence ^^;
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Posted 6/8/16

Ryulightorb wrote:
don't even start she/he is stuck with their opinion and even if flaws are pointed out it won't matter.

just accept their opinion and move on save yourself the headache


Ryulightorb wrote:
Don't even enter this argument i have warned you just because he is supposedly an engineer he knows 100% that it's impossible.

Just shake your head and move on for your own sake!


I'll assume you're honestly trying to be helpful, but to me this looks pretty rude and disrespectful both to the person you are speaking about and to the people you are speaking to (let them make their own judgments and decisions about the value of the conversation they are having).
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