First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
Post Reply Should women have to register for the draft?
15259 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 6/16/16 , edited 6/16/16

Kira0309 wrote:

haha you would think, but that is why sperm banks exist xD


Which have limited supplies, degrade in quality over time and it would take 17/18 years before it bears any fruit. If you were living in a society that mandated pregnancy and reproduction due to war, women would have been drafted into the armed forces a time long ago.
Banned
17503 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / B.C, Canada
Offline
Posted 6/16/16
Geez so many people opposed to a little basic training or as we Canadians like to call it basic military qualification. Ya not sent off to war with only that under your belt people. No sane military commander would send half trained soldiers to a battlefield regardless of what is swinging or rather not swinging between your legs.

Now I don't care if you have a cock and balls or a vagina between your legs you owe it to your country to at the very least learn the basics of military service. I mean you are taking advantage of the freedoms and rights better men and women then you or I have died for. And while the wars of today hardly call for the massive deployment of military personal say World War 2 did it never hurts to have a semi trained populace to draw recruits from if such a situation did arise. Freedom has never been nor ever will be free.

If you do not like doing your civic duty, fuck I don't know move to some godforsaken island in the middle of Pacific and learn to live without running water and electricity.
2654 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / England
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

Hrafna wrote:

I don't know how to elaborate it any further.

The draft only consist of basic training.
The draft ends with basic training.
There is no draft after basic training.
You are not drafted to go to war.
The draft is basic training.

Furthermore, regarding the topic's title. If your country has drafting, then you've already been registered for the draft. You were registered at birth. You don't register for the draft, you answer the draft.


You've made your point clear - perhaps I haven't been clear.
I pay taxes on absolutely everything in the UK. I pay those taxes so that services like the armed forces are able to function. There ends my interest and involvement with the military. I don't have a choice about the taxes, but I do have a choice about how I spend my time. I work my arse off to keep my head above water as an actor, and keeping momentum up is essential - I would have no desire to sacrifice everything for a year, to answer a draft. I don't want or need to be trained, war or no war.

I have a friend who is Korean (south, obviously). He actually lives between London, Paris and Seoul, but works for the most part in England. Whilst we were at university, he was stressing out - trying to decide when it would be best to fit his compulsory national service in. He still hasn't done it, but he will have to. What utter bollocks - here's a young guy, with no interest whatsoever or inclination to spend anytime with the military, having to decide which couple of years of his life will be easiest to sacrifice.

Banned
17503 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / B.C, Canada
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

DazaiShinju wrote:



You've made your point clear - perhaps I haven't been clear.
I pay taxes on absolutely everything in the UK. I pay those taxes so that services like the armed forces are able to function. There ends my interest and involvement with the military. I don't have a choice about the taxes, but I do have a choice about how I spend my time. I work my arse off to keep my head above water as an actor, and keeping momentum up is essential - I would have no desire to sacrifice everything for a year, to answer a draft. I don't want or need to be trained, war or no war.

I have a friend who is Korean (south, obviously). He actually lives between London, Paris and Seoul, but works for the most part in England. Whilst we were at university, he was stressing out - trying to decide when it would be best to fit his compulsory national service in. He still hasn't done it, but he will have to. What utter bollocks - here's a young guy, with no interest whatsoever or inclination to spend anytime with the military, having to decide which couple of years of his life will be easiest to sacrifice.



Damn Lady I never heard such a pile of whining excuses why one shouldn't enlist for a spell in the army. I did two tours in Afghanistan and now I make 60 dollars an hour working two jobs. And I am still part of the Army Reserve. Military service is no sacrifice and only the weak think so.
2654 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / England
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

Ranwolf wrote:


DazaiShinju wrote:



You've made your point clear - perhaps I haven't been clear.
I pay taxes on absolutely everything in the UK. I pay those taxes so that services like the armed forces are able to function. There ends my interest and involvement with the military. I don't have a choice about the taxes, but I do have a choice about how I spend my time. I work my arse off to keep my head above water as an actor, and keeping momentum up is essential - I would have no desire to sacrifice everything for a year, to answer a draft. I don't want or need to be trained, war or no war.

I have a friend who is Korean (south, obviously). He actually lives between London, Paris and Seoul, but works for the most part in England. Whilst we were at university, he was stressing out - trying to decide when it would be best to fit his compulsory national service in. He still hasn't done it, but he will have to. What utter bollocks - here's a young guy, with no interest whatsoever or inclination to spend anytime with the military, having to decide which couple of years of his life will be easiest to sacrifice.



Damn Lady I never heard such a pile of whining excuses why one shouldn't enlist for a spell in the army. I did two tours in Afghanistan and now I make 60 dollars an hour working two jobs. And I am still part of the Army Reserve. Military service is no sacrifice and only the weak think so.


Whining excuses? I'm not making excuses whatsoever. I'm being pretty up front about my attitude towards the military. Military service is absolutely a sacrifice if you don't agree with the wars your government involve themselves in. Drafting a year of my life is absolutely a sacrifice, especially since it is unlikely the UK would ever engage and require NS. We shouldn't have gotten involved in half of the shit we have done - I've had a friend lose the lower half of his fucking leg on tour in Afghanistan, and now he gets fuck all help from the Government that sent him there. The Blair government, Cameron government continue to send services to wherever the USA points, and it pisses me right off. Meanwhile, Syria tears itself apart and nobody does anything because it won't benefit them. I know that over the pond you guys feel differently about your military, so I'm not surprised by your response, especially being ex service - I won't tell you that the military is for nothing. I just want no part of ours.

Banned
17503 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / B.C, Canada
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

DazaiShinju wrote:






Whining excuses? I'm not making excuses whatsoever. I'm being pretty up front about my attitude towards the military. Military service is absolutely a sacrifice if you don't agree with the wars your government involve themselves in. Drafting a year of my life is absolutely a sacrifice, especially since it is unlikely the UK would ever engage and require NS. We shouldn't have gotten involved in half of the shit we have done - I've had a friend lose the lower half of his fucking leg on tour in Afghanistan, and now he gets fuck all help from the Government that sent him there. The Blair government, Cameron government continue to send services to wherever the USA points, and it pisses me right off. Meanwhile, Syria tears itself apart and nobody does anything because it won't benefit them. I know that over the pond you guys feel differently about your military, so I'm not surprised by your response, especially being ex service - I won't tell you that the military is for nothing. I just want no part of ours.




Lady try and notice I am Canadian, which makes me a citizen of the commonwealth, the British Commonwealth ya dig? Everything about our nation is borrowed from yours, right down to the Governor General who represents your Queen in Canada ya know. Our currency bears your nations monarch on it to boot.

And our military procedures, carbon copies of yours. I know for a fact the Yanks suck ass at handling their vets but Canada has more or less handled it well so I know Britain has well. Not to mention every sane soldier takes care of his affairs before boarding the plane. That includes the paperwork for the life insurance ya offered free of charge as a soldier.

As for Syria I can't speak for the UK nor can I for the Yanks. But the only reason the CAF isn't in Syria is because the voters demanded that the combat mission in the middle east end. And surprise surprise the only party that campaigned on ending the combat mission is the party now in charge of my homeland. So how about you look a littler closer at your fellow citizens before blaming the powers that be for why a nation's armies aren't where they are truly needed.

And you know what I joined the CAF the day I turned 18, I did my two tours, transferred to the reserve, got promoted to the section commander of the reserve unit I was with. Yet despite that I lived a full rich life, wanting for nothing really when all is said and done. I have enough money to live comfortably and only a few ghosts in my head. If you can't find a way to turn a mandatory draft to your advantage maybe you aren't truly ready for adult life.
2654 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / England
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

Ranwolf wrote:

Lady try and notice I am Canadian, which makes me a citizen of the commonwealth, the British Commonwealth ya dig? Everything about our nation is borrowed from yours, right down to the Governor General who represents your Queen in Canada ya know. Our currency bears your nations monarch on it to boot.


Referring to me as 'lady' is pretty patronising, given that you seem to consider yourself to be a paragon of maturity - made all the more amusing that you're doing it in a thread about whether or not women should have to register for the draft. (Incidentally, I think they should have to, if men have to - I am just saying that I don't think there should ever be a draft in the UK). You seem to be more interested in the Queen and the Commonwealth than the average UK citizen, so well done on that - I fail to see the relevance of it to the rest of the point you're making.


Ranwolf wrote:
And our military procedures, carbon copies of yours. I know for a fact the Yanks suck ass at handling their vets but Canada has more or less handled it well so I know Britain has well.


Ah yes, inductive reasoning. You actually don't need to look far to find literature on the vast numbers of homeless veterans in the UK, let alone those with untreated mental health issues, or those living on the breadline due to disability. I can't speak for Canada, but that is the truth of it here.


Ranwolf wrote:
So how about you look a littler closer at your fellow citizens before blaming the powers that be for why a nation's armies aren't where they are truly needed.

We err... we don't get a vote on where the armies go? Do I really have to explain the British Parliamentary system now too?
We do get a choice in who runs the show though, and trust me, I judge every person who voted them in. Although of course, given the absurd first past the post system, even that isn't a majority of the population. Don't get me started on the coalition government (which of course, the Queen could actually have stopped happening, but that might have rendered her useful).


Ranwolf wrote:If you can't find a way to turn a mandatory draft to your advantage maybe you aren't truly ready for adult life.


You're quite right. I'm entirely unsuited for adult life, because I don't want to be drafted into the military.
Solid argument - I look forward to the next exciting instalment of your opinions on my opinions...

Banned
17503 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / B.C, Canada
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

DazaiShinju wrote:


You're quite right. I'm entirely unsuited for adult life, because I don't want to be drafted into the military.
Solid argument - I look forward to the next exciting instalment of your opinions on my opinions...



Alright let me put it this way. What exactly entitles you as a female citizen of the United Kingdom to the rights and privileges granted underneath your constitution? What service have you rendered your country that would grant you the right to keep living in the relative comfort and safety of a first world country. Simply being born within the borders of a country in my opinion entitles you to nothing but a fairly decent childhood.

So what have you done since the age of 18 to prove your worth the expense of keeping around. And don't give me that trite excuse of paying taxes. Would it truly kill you to spend a year merely learning the basics of service in your nations armed forces. The male counterparts of various nations have had no problem with it. Most of them get it over with right away and go on to live their life in whatever manner they choose. They pay lip service to the ideals of their country's charter and as a result become better people for it.

And even if the draft lead to combat what of it? Or do you truly disdain the country you live in now that much, or do you wish unnecessary suffering upon places like Afghanistan, Syria, and all the other nations UN and NATO peacekeepers have been deployed to?

Cause for the life of me lady I can not fathom a heart and mind so devoid of the concept of duty and courage as you've shown me thus far.
2654 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / England
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

Ranwolf wrote:

Alright let me put it this way. What exactly entitles you as a female citizen of the United Kingdom to the rights and privileges granted underneath your constitution? What service have you rendered your country that would grant you the right to keep living in the relative comfort and safety of a first world country. Simply being born within the borders of a country in my opinion entitles you to nothing but a fairly decent childhood.


Leaving aside your assumptions that a) I was born here b) my childhood was decent, I'll tell you.
My gender is irrelevant to the basic rights I can expect by virtue of being a UK citizen. If anything, it is a disadvantage. I don't actually have to provide a service to the scrap of the world I live on beyond abiding by its laws, paying it's taxes and contributing to society as best I can. You might feel that the only real contribution a person can make to society is to join the armed forces, I feel differently. There is little point in trying to change each others opinion on this.
As for how unfair the world is, I'm acutely aware that I am only on this particular scrap of the planet by sheer coincidence.


Ranwolf wrote:
Would it truly kill you to spend a year merely learning the basics of service in your nations armed forces. The male counterparts of various nations have had no problem with it. Most of them get it over with right away and go on to live their life in whatever manner they choose.

Various nations, not the UK. Please try to understand me - had I grown up with a draft in place, I would certainly not want my gender to be a consideration. You seem to be utterly misunderstanding what I am saying, and focusing on the fact that I am a woman. I do not think that anyone should be drafted, but if there must be a draft, then everyone should be drafted. I take massive issue with countries where only men are expected or able to join the military.
No - it would not kill me, and I never said it would. That does not mean I have to agree with the premise of a draft, or be pro it, which is what we're ultimately debating at this stage. My time is ultimately better spent elsewhere, and this is absolutely the case for many men & women.



Ranwolf wrote:
They pay lip service to the ideals of their country's charter and as a result become better people for it.


This I don't buy at all. Lip service does not make anyone a better person. I won't utter a single word of a prayer when I am dragged into a church for a wedding, I won't sing our ridiculous national anthem and I sure as hell won't be extolling the virtues of the bloody Magna Carta anytime soon. Lip service is for the unthinking. Besides, what are the ideals of my country? Because it isn't clear, especially now as the idiotic masses raise their empty little heads to declare we must leave the EU, because 'brown people'.



Ranwolf wrote:
And even if the draft lead to combat what of it? Or do you truly disdain the country you live in now that much, or do you wish unnecessary suffering upon places like Afghanistan, Syria, and all the other nations UN and NATO peacekeepers have been deployed to?


Half the time, our military causes suffering. Half the time it ignores it, because there is no financial gain. I also take issue with the UK becoming involved with what almost always feels like American interests in terms of where troops are deployed.
I like England. I hate a lot of the things that happen here. I'm allowed to like being English, whilst being aware of the huge faults that exist. It's kind of a prerequisite for being English. I have NEVER understood people who raise flags, and bang on about how glorious their country is.

You said it yourself... You've been in the armed forces since you were 18. Your entire adult life has been lived in the context of the armed forces. Unlike your treatment of my 'values', I'm not knocking you for it - it's absolutely your choice and I'm glad to hear it was the right one for you...
Just know that it isn't the only choice, and it isn't one I think ought be forced upon people.

9493 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / F / USA
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

jtjumper wrote:

No, I'd rather have the men die, instead.


Lmao xD
Kuldaj 
54058 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M
Offline
Posted 6/16/16
I think everyone should have to register. The thing is even if they draft was to be used, You would still have to pass through basic training, which is a mental/physical evaluation.

Although I think we should really adopt what quite a few countries do, and require people (upon turning 18 or graduation high school) to either be enrolled in a college/technical school or serve in the military for a minimum of 2 years.

It would change how a lot of people think about and perceive military service.
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 6/16/16
Great, we have stolen valor ranting against a limey.


On topic, yes they should.
10623 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Rabbit Horse
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

Hrafna wrote:

I don't know how to elaborate it any further.

The draft only consist of basic training.
The draft ends with basic training.
There is no draft after basic training.
You are not drafted to go to war.
The draft is basic training.
You need to have been through at least 1 year of basic training (what you were drafted to), AND HAVE SIGNED A CONTRACT specifically stating that you are willing to go on international operations, for them to even consider letting you go to war, otherwise it would mandate and breach your rights as a human being, and everyone in the entire country would be opposed to the draft, and the draft would not exist anywhere in the world unless the country was lead by a dictating maniac. After you've been through basic training, you go home. If your country were to go to war, you would still be at home (not drafted), because you didn't sign the contract. You are not sent to war, because you're not drafted to go to war. That's not what the draft is, you're only drafted for basic training.

It's about as morally wrong to go to basic training as it is morally wrong to go to school.

Furthermore, regarding the topic's title. If your country has drafting, then you've already been registered for the draft. You were registered at birth. You don't register for the draft, you answer the draft.


the registration IS the contract between you and the government, which states that you agree to perform military duties (=/= training)
when the President asks, which is why people were opposed to the draft. the draft did not originally exist in the US, until too many people from the North died in the Civil War and there were not enough people to keep up with the costs of war against the South.
the only reason it stops at training is because there's no need to. if he/she is willing, the President can still (by law) make people - trained or otherwise - serve in the military.



all able-bodies male citizens of the United States, and persons of foreign birth who shall have declared on oath their intention to become citizens under and in pursuance of the laws thereof, between the ages of twenty and forty-five years, except as hereinafter excepted, are hereby declared to constitute the national forces, and shall be liable to perform military duty in the service of the United States when called out by the President for that purpose.

http://civilwardailygazette.com/lincoln-signs-the-federal-conscription-act/

also i lol at people claiming that it makes you a "better person".
surely, the pedophiles from the UN forces became a better person by taking advantage of women and children in occupied territories amiright.
11505 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/16/16 , edited 6/16/16

Ryulightorb wrote:

well better then dying to a bullet!


If you try to not go to war they put you in jail which is better than losing your life in a war you don't want to fight. But then again, if America is going to go down, yeah I'd say it's mandatory we all pitch in to actually try to save our homeland... like wtf :)

12636 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Marshall, Michigan
Offline
Posted 6/16/16

Voc666IV wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

Yes they wanted equal right an they got it. Part of equal rights is an equal opportunity to die in some piss ant country no one gives a fuck about just like males can.


well that would be stupid..who the hell is going to stay at home and reproduce? I don't see men giving birth anytime soon.


It takes two to tango...


It only takes one rooster to keep the hen house a layin'. Or just have the women already be pregnant and have the war only be 18 months.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.