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Post Reply Jo Cox: An attack on Democracy
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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

runec wrote:

Yeah, I'll wait till someone other than Brietbart "updates" the story, thanks. -.-



maxgale wrote:
As other users have stated, it is seeming less like it was politically motivated, and more like the guy has mental problems.


These are not mutually exclusive. Which is the whole problem.



maxgale wrote:
Of course, this is the same media that when obvious Islamic terrorism occurs says we must "wait until all the facts have been established" and even then refuses to acknowledge it as such, and instead calls for gun control, etc.


God, there's so much irony and cognitive dissonance in this statement I don't even know where to start. And even if I did start you'd just scream at me for 3 pages anyhow.






So, now that all the media has posted that the guy had mental problems you gonna acknowledge it wasn't politically motivated?



And the only cognitive dissonance going on is from those who cannot quite seem to grasp that obvious Islamic terror is shown to be obvious Islamic terror even after the liberal media pretends otherwise, while yet again the claims that someone on the Right went on a rampage is proven false.


"We can't rush to judgment!" suddenly becomes "Oh PLEASE won't it be someone on the Right this time! It HAS to be! If it isn't, we'll just quietly update our stories, but still blame the Right."
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Posted 6/17/16

maxgale wrote:
So, now that all the media has posted that the guy had mental problems you gonna acknowledge it wasn't politically motivated?


Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.



maxgale wrote:
And the only cognitive dissonance going on is from those who cannot quite seem to grasp that obvious Islamic terror is shown to be obvious Islamic terror even after the liberal media pretends otherwise, while yet again the claims that someone on the Right went on a rampage is proven false.

"We can't rush to judgment!" suddenly becomes "Oh PLEASE won't it be someone on the Right this time! It HAS to be! If it isn't, we'll just quietly update our stories, but still blame the Right."


Yes, yes, back to your regular screaming into the wind.

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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

runec wrote:


Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.





What part of "mental problems" do you not understand?


You can't blame politics for someone who is literally not acting according to any logic.


The dude is a wacko. That was why he did it. Full stop.




runec wrote:



maxgale wrote:
And the only cognitive dissonance going on is from those who cannot quite seem to grasp that obvious Islamic terror is shown to be obvious Islamic terror even after the liberal media pretends otherwise, while yet again the claims that someone on the Right went on a rampage is proven false.

"We can't rush to judgment!" suddenly becomes "Oh PLEASE won't it be someone on the Right this time! It HAS to be! If it isn't, we'll just quietly update our stories, but still blame the Right."


Yes, yes, back to your regular screaming into the wind.




You might act only to preserve your pride, but everyone else can see you and others on The Left refusing to act according to the most basic logic and facts, and your hypocrisy is self-evident.



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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

maxgale wrote:And the only cognitive dissonance going on is from those who cannot quite seem to grasp that obvious Islamic terror is shown to be obvious Islamic terror even after the liberal media pretends otherwise, while yet again the claims that someone on the Right went on a rampage is proven false.


Correct. Absolutely. I wouldn't say that he was completely mental though but so true. It seems like most info about mair is contradicting and I can't make him out yet.


maxgale wrote:
So, now that all the media has posted that the guy had mental problems you gonna acknowledge it wasn't politically motivated?



runec wrote: Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.

Oh the hypocrisy.

Btw this is further proof gun control can't stop criminals or even begin to combat a problem derived from ideology seriously.
Posted 6/17/16

maxgale wrote:

So, now that all the media has posted that the guy had mental problems you gonna acknowledge it wasn't politically motivated?


Oh, for fuck sake.
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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

maxgale wrote:


runec wrote:


Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.





What part of "mental problems" do you not understand?

You can't blame politics for someone who is literally not acting according to any logic.

The dude is a wacko. That was why he did it. Full stop.


That's not quite how it works. He may have taken action because he has mental health issues (lets at least attempt to use the correct language here), but he almost certainly has a political viewpoint. Now given that your tagline is 'USA USA USA', I'm just going to go ahead an assume that you're an American - therefore maybe you're not familiar with what Britain First actually is. The rhetoric of violent groups such as Britain First is absolutely a factor in what has happened - and they share a portion of the blame. You don't get to blame Islam for extremists, and then get a free pass when someone from your own group commits a crime that is actually entirely in keeping with the attitudes of your members - which is what Britain First would of course, like to do.


maxgale wrote:


runec wrote:
And the only cognitive dissonance going on is from those who cannot quite seem to grasp that obvious Islamic terror is shown to be obvious Islamic terror even after the liberal media pretends otherwise, while yet again the claims that someone on the Right went on a rampage is proven false.

"We can't rush to judgment!" suddenly becomes "Oh PLEASE won't it be someone on the Right this time! It HAS to be! If it isn't, we'll just quietly update our stories, but still blame the Right."


Yes, yes, back to your regular screaming into the wind.




You might act only to preserve your pride, but everyone else can see you Lefties refusing to act according to the most basic logic and facts, and your hypocrisy is self-evident.



Given the bollocks you spouted above, it's laughable that you're accusing anyone of being a hypocrite.

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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

DazaiShinju wrote:


maxgale wrote:


runec wrote:


Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.





What part of "mental problems" do you not understand?

You can't blame politics for someone who is literally not acting according to any logic.

The dude is a wacko. That was why he did it. Full stop.


That's not quite how it works. He may have taken action because he has mental health issues (lets at least attempt to use the correct language here), but he almost certainly has a political viewpoint. Now given that your tagline is 'USA USA USA', I'm just going to go ahead an assume that you're an American - therefore maybe you're not familiar with what Britain First actually is. The rhetoric of violent groups such as Britain First is absolutely a factor in what has happened - and they share a portion of the blame. You don't get to blame Islam for extremists, and then get a free pass when someone from your own group commits a crime that is actually entirely in keeping with the attitudes of your members - which is what Britain First would of course, like to do.




Actually, yes, it IS how it works.


If someone has mental problems, and that is the reason they do something, whatever triggered that isn't blamed as the cause.


Or if someone with mental problems goes on a rampage because "Elmo told me to," do we blame Sesame Street?


Compare that to Islam, where the adherents are literally doing what they are told to do in the religion itself.




But go on, keep on blathering nonsense.


I rather do want our good lurkers and undecided voters for the upcoming Brexit to see what traitorous, sniveling, psychotic dunces the Left is comprised of, who make excuses for people who declare war on their country and way of life, and try to put the blame on the people who simply acknowledge that reality.
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Posted 6/17/16

maxgale wrote:


DazaiShinju wrote:


maxgale wrote:


runec wrote:


Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.





What part of "mental problems" do you not understand?

You can't blame politics for someone who is literally not acting according to any logic.

The dude is a wacko. That was why he did it. Full stop.


That's not quite how it works. He may have taken action because he has mental health issues (lets at least attempt to use the correct language here), but he almost certainly has a political viewpoint. Now given that your tagline is 'USA USA USA', I'm just going to go ahead an assume that you're an American - therefore maybe you're not familiar with what Britain First actually is. The rhetoric of violent groups such as Britain First is absolutely a factor in what has happened - and they share a portion of the blame. You don't get to blame Islam for extremists, and then get a free pass when someone from your own group commits a crime that is actually entirely in keeping with the attitudes of your members - which is what Britain First would of course, like to do.




Actually, yes, it IS how it works.


If someone has mental problems, and that is the reason they do something, whatever triggered that isn't blamed as the cause.


Or if someone with mental problems goes on a rampage because "Elmo told me to," do we blame Sesame Street?


Ah, I see what was meant by screaming into the wind. You either have a special talent for being deliberately obtuse, or you're genuinely not able to understand the point being made. Sesame Street is probably more at your level either way.


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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

DazaiShinju wrote:


maxgale wrote:


DazaiShinju wrote:


maxgale wrote:


runec wrote:


Which part of "not mutually exclusive" didn't you grasp? I didn't say he didn't have mental problems. I think that's kind of a given. I said that mental problems do not exclude political motivation. Crazy people have politics too. Which should be pretty damn obvious with even a cursory glance at US politics if not the world in general.





What part of "mental problems" do you not understand?

You can't blame politics for someone who is literally not acting according to any logic.

The dude is a wacko. That was why he did it. Full stop.


That's not quite how it works. He may have taken action because he has mental health issues (lets at least attempt to use the correct language here), but he almost certainly has a political viewpoint. Now given that your tagline is 'USA USA USA', I'm just going to go ahead an assume that you're an American - therefore maybe you're not familiar with what Britain First actually is. The rhetoric of violent groups such as Britain First is absolutely a factor in what has happened - and they share a portion of the blame. You don't get to blame Islam for extremists, and then get a free pass when someone from your own group commits a crime that is actually entirely in keeping with the attitudes of your members - which is what Britain First would of course, like to do.




Actually, yes, it IS how it works.


If someone has mental problems, and that is the reason they do something, whatever triggered that isn't blamed as the cause.


Or if someone with mental problems goes on a rampage because "Elmo told me to," do we blame Sesame Street?


Ah, I see what was meant by screaming into the wind. You either have a special talent for being deliberately obtuse, or you're genuinely not able to understand the point being made. Sesame Street is probably more at your level either way.






Thank you for proving precisely what I was saying.



You liberals only have snark and innuendo, and refuse to engage in any discussion as soon as it becomes evident you can't just shame someone into silence.


As I said to the other liberal, keep on doing nothing but trying to preserve your pride, so that more people can see your shallow ideology for exactly what it is.
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Posted 6/17/16

maxgale wrote:

Thank you for proving precisely what I was saying.



You liberals only have snark and innuendo, and refuse to engage in any discussion as soon as it becomes evident you can't just shame someone into silence.


As I said to the other liberal, keep on doing nothing but trying to preserve your pride, so that more people can see your shallow ideology for exactly what it is.


Mate, you're welcome to have a discussion with me, but you didn't answer to a single one of the points I made - but glossed over them. Given your sincerity, I can only assume it was lost on you or you're just refusing to consider a viewpoint aside from your own. Your only point seems to be 'if someone suffers from mental health issues, nobody is at fault for their actions'. It's poorly made, incorrect and shows a lack of understanding of Mental Health issues. You also seem not to be able to get to grips with the Britain First portion of the story as you insist on focusing on right/left wing politics. Are you actually aware of the group, and their objectives and behaviours? They're not a political party, they're a self styled vigilante group. They're violent (I should know - one of the larger groups is based near me), and ignorant.

You're absolutely welcome to visit their website to see for yourselves.
Highlights include an entire tab dedicated to 'Racism', instructions not to put 'Britain First' on postal correspondence (god forbid it should be opened and it's contents read), and my personal favourite -The almost constant use of the word LIES. Bonus points if you check out some of the comments made on the Facebook group.
https://www.britainfirst.org/

I quite literally defy anyone of sound mind to read all of this, and come back to me with the conclusion that this group is able to remove itself from violence. This isn't about right or left wing politics, but extremism... although whilst we're making generalisations, isn't that the ultimate weapon of right wingers?
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Posted 6/17/16

DazaiShinju wrote:
Ah, I see what was meant by screaming into the wind. You either have a special talent for being deliberately obtuse, or you're genuinely not able to understand the point being made.


Its not a talent so much as a career. It took a lot of hard work and dedication to reach that point. You shouldn't dismiss his efforts as merely a talent. Those blinders don't come off at the end of the day. They're surgically attached. There's some real commitment to the craft here you know.
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Posted 6/17/16

runec wrote:


DazaiShinju wrote:
Ah, I see what was meant by screaming into the wind. You either have a special talent for being deliberately obtuse, or you're genuinely not able to understand the point being made.


Its not a talent so much as a career. It took a lot of hard work and dedication to reach that point. You shouldn't dismiss his efforts as merely a talent. Those blinders don't come off at the end of the day. They're surgically attached. There's some real commitment to the craft here you know.


Now now, don't be snarky (and if you're going to be snarky, at least provide some innuendo - because that's what this tragedy needs).
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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/17/16
Oh, it edited a post. Sneaky.

Edit: There you have it. Left wingers are all snivelling dunces.

I probably am, for even starting this topic. I'm not sure what I hoped for.
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Posted 6/17/16 , edited 6/18/16

DazaiShinju wrote:


maxgale wrote:

Thank you for proving precisely what I was saying.



You liberals only have snark and innuendo, and refuse to engage in any discussion as soon as it becomes evident you can't just shame someone into silence.


As I said to the other liberal, keep on doing nothing but trying to preserve your pride, so that more people can see your shallow ideology for exactly what it is.


Mate, you're welcome to have a discussion with me, but you didn't answer to a single one of the points I made.




No, what I did was answer your questions in a way that refuted your premise.


I can see why you might be a tad upset by that.


But since you said you're willing to debate, I'll ask you again (since you didn't answer):


If someone goes on a rampage, and says it's because "Elmo told me to do it," do we blame Sesame Street for the rampage?
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Posted 6/17/16

maxgale wrote:

No, what I did was answer your questions in a way that refuted your premise.


I can see why you might be a tad upset by that.


But since you said you're willing to debate, I'll ask you again (since you didn't answer):


If someone goes on a rampage, and says it's because "Elmo told me to do it," do we blame Sesame Street for the rampage?


Sooo, you really don't understand.

Right, let's try again, in stages. Please note that I will be quoting sources from the website I previously linked. Despite vehemently denying a racist position, Britain First are openly against what they refer to as 'Global Islamic jihad'.
They are for 'British values'.

So let's assume for now that race is irrelevant, and start here. Disregarding 'British Values' for now (which of course, are subjective), let's look at this topic of 'Global Islamic Jihad'. Please explain to me how this can be described, without using examples of extremist groups and/or attacks.
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