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Post Reply If the US is a Christian nation, shouldn't it reject Trump?
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Posted 6/28/16

geauxtigers1989 wrote: 1. It's in the OP.

2. That was then. Things have changed.

Ok great so you quote the old testament to attempt to discredit trump's views based on christianity and the things its leaders say, great! Then you turn around and say the things the bible says and the leaders who have said things contradictory to from other things the bible says are irrelevant because times of changed?

Ok well I'm changing things back lol. That's not how it works you don't get to pick out the good stuff like it's a steak salad.
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Posted 6/28/16

geauxtigers wrote:Yes, but none of that is relevant to the point I was making.

So you quoted the old testament which needs thrown out the door because of its problems. The romans quote says saints, how is it people that are follow homicidal ideas are saints?

The Hebrews quote says to let a scary man with a gun into the house basically because when he turns out to be a great guy an angel somewhere will smile. You should try that sometime.
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Posted 6/28/16

maniackillah wrote:

Ok great so you quote the old testament to attempt to discredit trump's views based on christianity and the things its leaders say, great! Then you turn around and say the things the bible says and the leaders who have said things contradictory to from other things the bible says are irrelevant because times of changed?

Ok well I'm changing things back lol. That's not how it works you don't get to pick out the good stuff like it's a steak salad.


You're not making sense. Church policy on welcoming the stranger is still the same. The policies on relations with Muslims and other non-Christians have been altered since the days of the Crusades and are now more in line with the Bible (1 Peter 2: 12).
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Posted 6/28/16 , edited 6/28/16
Interesting fact that NOBODY KNOWS. The "under god" part was not originally in the American pledge of allegiance, it was add during the Cold War as a response to evil godless Communism.
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Posted 6/28/16

geauxtigers1989 wrote: You're not making sense. Church policy on welcoming the stranger is still the same. The policies on relations with Muslims and other non-Christians have been altered since the days of the Crusades and are now more in line with the Bible (1 Peter 2: 12).


Ok so peter is in line with your views? Now go back and read what peter says about women. Do you agree? Can you see the hypocrisy of quoting one word of a book and throwing the other words out?

Does the Bible say muslim?
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27 / M / Ark-La-Tex
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Posted 6/28/16

maniackillah wrote:

Does the Bible say muslim?


It predates Islam by a few centuries.
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Posted 6/28/16 , edited 6/28/16
But the US isn't an entirely Christian nation? Keep that in the bible belt, man. I'm Buddhist. Hell, one of our more controversial presidents (due to religion) was Catholic.
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Posted 6/28/16
That news article essentially boils down to if you're Christian, you should oppose Trump because he is anti Islam... wtf? also do you have any idea what Muslim migrants are doing to Europe? it's not a good idea to accept so many into your country.
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Posted 6/28/16
What are you talking abouth? As an American, I love Trump!

I hope no one notices my sarcasm...
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Posted 6/28/16 , edited 6/28/16
If the USA was a Christian nation neither Hilary nor Trump would have been the candidates I would wager. If a Christian votes for Trump they aren't necessarily doing it because they think he's a good Christian (he isn't) they are voting for him because he seems better than the alternative. That they can benefit more so with Trump than with Hilary.


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You forget that most christians are only christian when it has to do with whatever agenda they want to push: homosexuality, abortion, etc..


So Christians who don't push against those things are the real Christians? Why would you think that those who object to Homosexuality and abortion only use religion as a cover instead of being directly informed by their religious view?

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Posted 6/28/16 , edited 6/29/16
Alas, basically none of what has been said is remotely close to what the Christian actually thinks - with the exception of Sogno-'s comment (and Iconodule, who posted just before me). Christianity has been around for two millennia, and its thinkers have wrestled with problems far more difficult than whom to vote for in the next election. Unsurprisingly, the contradictions that seem to appear when people cite verses out of context disappear in the coherent ideological framework.

(But before I say anything else, the best construction one can put on calling the United States a "Christian nation" is that the culture at the time of the founding was somewhat Christianized, and the political theories of the time used the concepts of natural law and the fallenness of humanity, both of which fit well within Christianity. Anything more than that is overstepping the bounds of historical and legal reality.)

With that out of the way, as I said earlier, the Christian takes the Bible as a coherent whole - which means that almost every time the media cites a verse or two in order to make some conclusion about how Christians should behave, it doesn't know what it's talking about. As I'll show, none of the verses cited in this thread bear at all upon how the Christian should vote. They do tell us Trump is a horrible person, though, and the Christian who says otherwise is quite uninformed - in more ways than one.

Now, the idea of a "Christian nation" is fairly foreign to Christianity itself: throughout the New Testament it is taught that Christ's kingdom "is not of this world" (John 18:36). The primary passage dealing with how Christians are to orient themselves towards government is Romans 13:1-7, which says Christians are to submit to the governing authority already in place:
If you want something to throw in Christians' faces (which isn't very nice of you), Christians who are actually consistent should consider the American Revolution as sinful, as it was a rebellion against the divinely instituted authority. Remember that Paul was talking about the Roman Empire here - the government that ended up beheading him.

Anyway, note that Paul says the government is an "avenger." But in the chapter immediately before, Paul also says "Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord'” (Romans 12:19, ESV). And Jesus says "But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:39, ESV). Are these contradictory? No, because clearly two different entities are being discussed: the individual Christian is not to take revenge, but the state can. In fact, that's its job. The Christian is not to kill, but the state can. Check out the Wikipedia page on just war theory to see how this kind of thinking works.

This is not to say that the Bible puts no constraints on what the state should do. The Old Testament is full of statements to the effect "King such and such of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord" (1 Kings 15:26, 22:52, 2 Kings 23:37, and tons more). But you're going to have trouble finding the Biblical basis for particular kinds of immigration law, because the Bible just doesn't say anything about what a state should do in a complicated situation like that. The "no room in the inn" thing is quite ignorant actually, because a state is not an inn, and that's not really how things happened anyway.

What this means is not that it is Christian (or unchristian) to bar Muslim immigration into the U.S., but rather that the Christian is supposed to support a policy based on the facts of the situation, with the consequences for their fellow humans in mind. Given that the state is to reward good and punish evil, if it's the case that letting tons of refugees into the country would lead to violence and upheaval, the Christian might pause before subjecting their country to that. If instead (as seems more likely) it's the case that refugees/Muslims are very unlikely to cause any trouble, and we can accommodate them easily, then the Christian might support such a thing. (That it happens to be unconstitutional to bar Muslim immigration to the U.S. has nothing to do with Christianity.)

The Christian is supposed to vote (or not vote) based on who is "God's servant for your good" and will "carr[y] out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." Those are very broad criteria. The Christians I know are retching at their voting options (much like everyone else) and would have preferred Cruz, Kasich, or Sanders. Then again, I live in the ivory tower, where Christians are rare and tend to stand out, so I can only hypothesize about what the average American Christian thinks. Given the above, if your average Trump-supporting Christian has put any thought into it (which isn't necessarily likely), they'd probably say that, yeah, Trump isn't a very good person, but he can still be God's servant for our good - and wouldn't be as bad as Hillary. And "he wouldn't be as bad as Hillary" is really the only argument that exists for voting for Trump anyway.

Of course, as a feminazi, I will be voting for Hillary - though I don't really want to.
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Posted 6/29/16
America isn't a Christian nation. We have too many cultures and religions to call ourselves a nation of really anything. There are more people who are atheists, or at least are more commonly accepted than Christians. When it comes to trump, religion has nothing to do with it. If it does, it is extremely miniscule. Nobody really cares about whether Donald trump is a Christian or not for the most part. Trumps popularity comes with the social and cultural climate the US exists in today. We live in an extreme world. The number of mass shootings and terrorists attacks have gradually increased each year. Now, we have one of the most deadly mass shootings in US history under our belt with Orlando. People promote trump because he is an outsider and has radical ideas. People have gotten tired to the Obama administration doing nothing against this radical culture in our nation, so they promote trump because he is: an outsider, a known public figure, somebody with confidence and little to no political correctness, a self-made man to say the least, and someone with radical ideas to combat a radical social climate. Just like jimmy carter in the 70s, the public wants somebody different in office, whether it be trump or sanders in most cases. They are tired of the establishment and they want somebody to appeal to their base instincts instead of placating the situation to avoid ruffling the feathers of islam and muslims in general. Whether it be bigoted, sexist, crude, ridiculous, crass, or just offensive, trump's ideals are radical and it makes some parts of the public feel like his ideas might actually promote change. Obama promised change and nothing changed, Clinton promises change but she is the establishment candidate so that won't happen, sanders is declining daily. With this, the public has to choose between the same old same old or something that might change our nation. People just want change, whether it is good or bad comes later
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Posted 6/29/16
Both are bad but one isnt a Socialist and a felon so...
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Posted 6/29/16

Iconodule wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You forget that most christians are only christian when it has to do with whatever agenda they want to push: homosexuality, abortion, etc..


So Christians who don't push against those things are the real Christians? Why would you think that those who object to Homosexuality and abortion only use religion as a cover instead of being directly informed by their religious view?

Enbolden the text where I said anything about those who don't fall under this as being "real christians". Can you read?

The second part of your question is just the same thing reworded. Being "directly informed by your religious view" and disregarding science is using your religion as a cover.
Posted 6/29/16 , edited 6/29/16
No.
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