First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  Next  Last
Post Reply If the US is a Christian nation, shouldn't it reject Trump?
Posted 6/29/16
Hillary can't be trusted either v
https://youtu.be/bOjX-o9axmw
715 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M
Offline
Posted 6/29/16
I wouldn't say the US is a Christian country, maybe before, but not anymore.
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 6/29/16


False reporters and their wannabe "gotcha" reports.
7547 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Ark-La-Tex
Online
Posted 6/30/16

VZ68 wrote:

False reporters and their wannabe "gotcha" reports.


What are you talking about?
24251 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 6/30/16 , edited 6/30/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You forget that most christians are only christian when it has to do with whatever agenda they want to push: homosexuality, abortion, etc..


I did not know this fact.

If America were a Christian nation there wouldn't be a military. Jesus was a pacifist.
27451 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
Offline
Posted 6/30/16

Elynne06 wrote:

Thomas Jefferson, January 1, 1802 Letter:

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."


Article Six of the United States Constitution:

"...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."


I understand that devout Christians will be motivated in part by their religion when they go to vote, but I really don't think that should be their only motivation since the United States clearly isn't a theocracy. Anyway, wouldn't the abortion issue prevent a good number of them from supporting Hilary Clinton? Oh, but I guess they will conveniently forget that problem.

Also, why does Pope Francis feel the need to mess with the politics of countries?




You are aware that the "separation of church and state" was spoken of in a private letter where Jefferson basically said, "I'm not going to get involved with the disputes between two rival religious groups?"



And that it has been affirmed by the US government itself that the United States is a Christian nation?




PeripheralVisionary wrote:

You know what Ben Shapiro said? I'll paraphrase, but "when did Christians ever vote for an adulterous strip club owner before?"




When they remember what a douche King David was but was still used to lead people, I guess.




shugotenshi-atm wrote:

America isn't a Christian nation. It cannot be one. It is a secular nation by law.



It isn't a secular nation by law, tradition, or culture.
18323 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/30/16
No. Because real christian fundies don't care what christianpost says and they think CNN is some satanic conspiracy. What they watch is this:

http://www.cbn.com/tv/4246747370001?mobile=false

and this:

http://www.infowars.com/is-trump-the-anti-christ/
15259 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 6/30/16
Elect Trump as your president America, it will be a good laugh.

8351 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/30/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Iconodule wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You forget that most christians are only christian when it has to do with whatever agenda they want to push: homosexuality, abortion, etc..


So Christians who don't push against those things are the real Christians? Why would you think that those who object to Homosexuality and abortion only use religion as a cover instead of being directly informed by their religious view?

Enbolden the text where I said anything about those who don't fall under this as being "real christians". Can you read?

The second part of your question is just the same thing reworded. Being "directly informed by your religious view" and disregarding science is using your religion as a cover.


Your initial quote blatantly says that people are only Christian when it happens to be with regards to the specific agenda they want to address. This is to suggest it does not come from their sincere Christian expression but rather their stance against Homosexuality and abortion for which they use religion as a means to justify or get support. This was the impression I got from your initial post. Perhaps you should word things differently.

Also to be informed religiously is not reject science and use religion as a cover. Some people can do this but it is not universal and you shouldn't pretend it is so.
34504 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
47 / M / Covington, KY
Offline
Posted 6/30/16 , edited 7/2/16
From Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli:

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

This treaty was signed unanimously by Congress on June 7, 1797

The United States is a secular nation, no matter what some screaming preach after your cash might have said on Sunday. Religion is not the reason to be for or against Trump. He has wealth, and now wants power. Has he given you any compelling reason to hand him that power? That is what you should consider.
39137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / San Francisco Bay...
Offline
Posted 6/30/16

Iconodule wrote:
Your initial quote blatantly says that people are only Christian when it happens to be with regards to the specific agenda they want to address. This is to suggest it does not come from their sincere Christian expression but rather their stance against Homosexuality and abortion for which they use religion as a means to justify or get support. This was the impression I got from your initial post. Perhaps you should word things differently.

Also to be informed religiously is not reject science and use religion as a cover. Some people can do this but it is not universal and you shouldn't pretend it is so.


I'm obviously not the original poster, so I can't speak for him, but nevertheless I can give my two cents.

The rhetoric "America is a Christian Nation" tends to be argued only a handful of cases, of which homosexuality and abortion (and by extension, laws dealing with sex and sexuality in general) tend to be the most prominent examples. The implication of that rhetoric is that since America is a Christian nation, it should uncritically advance Christian values.

In most cases, what the general Christian layman considers moral can be argued on strictly secular grounds. At this point though, the phrase Christian values becomes horribly ambiguous as to lose all meaning. For example, is the golden rule a Christian value or just a good-person value? That ambiguity, in turn, results in secular arguments being the dominant arguments in a political arena. Why appeal to Christianity in particular when appealing to the golden rule can convince more people to support your position? As such, in the political arena, the phrase "Christian values" or "nuclear family [values]" or "family values" can almost always be understood as a dog-whistle to promote policy against homosexuality (e.g., the "Freedom of Religious Expression" bills which are thinly disguised attempts to circumvent municipal LGBT anti-discrimination laws), birth control (e.g. abstinence-only education), or abortion (e.g. the recently overturned ambulatory requirements)-- if the values were held by people on secular reasons alone (as tends to be the case for most Christian values), there would be no need to appeal to religion in the first place so few politicians would. That appeal of religion, in turn, is justified under the pretense America is a "Christian nation."

Put another way, what "Christian values" mean in political discourse is very specific and different compared to what "Christian values" might mean to one's personal religious beliefs, specifically in that in political discourse religion is used as a cover.
33510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / U.S.A.
Offline
Posted 6/30/16 , edited 6/30/16

Iconodule wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Iconodule wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You forget that most christians are only christian when it has to do with whatever agenda they want to push: homosexuality, abortion, etc..


So Christians who don't push against those things are the real Christians? Why would you think that those who object to Homosexuality and abortion only use religion as a cover instead of being directly informed by their religious view?

Enbolden the text where I said anything about those who don't fall under this as being "real christians". Can you read?

The second part of your question is just the same thing reworded. Being "directly informed by your religious view" and disregarding science is using your religion as a cover.


Your initial quote blatantly says that people are only Christian when it happens to be with regards to the specific agenda they want to address. This is to suggest it does not come from their sincere Christian expression but rather their stance against Homosexuality and abortion for which they use religion as a means to justify or get support. This was the impression I got from your initial post. Perhaps you should word things differently.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the wording that is already there.


Also to be informed religiously is not reject science and use religion as a cover. Some people can do this but it is not universal and you shouldn't pretend it is so.

See above.
590 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / The Ivory Tower
Online
Posted 6/30/16


That needs to be erased from the universe.
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 6/30/16

auroraloose wrote:



That needs to be erased from the universe.


590 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / The Ivory Tower
Online
Posted 6/30/16 , edited 6/30/16





I think Iconodule is precisely correct.

Your initial statement was "most christians are only christian when it has to do with whatever agenda they want to push." As Iconodule said, what you are saying implies you think most Christians are insincere in their faith: both that their faith doesn't run all that deep, and that they don't care all that much about what it says. Your statement directly implies that "most christians" are in fact somehow not Christian in other things you haven't mentioned. Further, you offered your statement as explanation for the seemingly unchristian behavior of supporting Trump. And it reads like you think this kind of behavior is common. So do you have evidence for this? Citing random out-of-context verses of the "don't eat shellfish" variety doesn't work, and my first comment dealt with such. The Christians I know are fairly serious (though again, they're also academics - physicists, in fact - so I have an unusual sample). And ultimately, I don't think you can claim to know the minds of "most christians" in that fashion, any more than your average right-wing blowhard knows the minds of most Muslims.

Next, being directly informed by one's religious views and behaving accordingly is the opposite of using one's religion as a cover, for there is nothing there it's covering for. Because the action is according to the religious views, not some secret other thing. To use something as a cover is to be disingenuous somehow, to have a hidden ulterior motive or design. Trump talking pro-life even though he has not been pro-life in the past is an example of using religion as a cover to get votes; actual Christians doing what their religion tells them to do is not. Now, you can have people who do what their religion says for reasons other than that they want to follow their religion, but you need some way to distinguish them from the people who are sincerely following their religion. (Note that I was able to make the distinction with Trump by citing his prior behavior.) Not only does your initial statement not make that distinction; it claims that most Christians are in the former camp.

When I read your initial statement, I had the exact same thoughts as Iconodule: Why are you saying most Christians are like this? Do you think they're insincere? Why do you cite abortion and homosexuality as the things they're being insincere about? Do you believe those are things honest Christians shouldn't actually oppose, and only oppose out of hypocrisy or ignorance of their own religion?

I can only conclude that either you don't know many actual Christians or you have formed your opinion of them from the caricature of the average American Christian that the media promulgates. I imagine that if you talked to my scientist friends who are also Christians, you'd find that they are Christian in a great deal of ways, not just when it is politically expedient, and they don't disregard science at all.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.