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Post Reply Idealistic Characters in Anime
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Posted 7/10/16 , edited 7/17/16
Does it drive anyone else insane the amount of stupidly idealistic characters in so many Anime and Manga series?

It seems that in many series especially action, main and or side characters constantly make incredibly stupid decisions that in any kind of real world situation would be disastrous and instead of any kind of punishment for their dumb actions everything just works out fine.

Like what do you think would really happen if you beat the shit out of some super powerful mass murderer and then just let him go because "im not a murderer", they would just go and kill tons more people which the MC is responsible for but its always portrayed as a good thing with no consequences.

Or the classic example of someone whos supposed to be an elite fighter/soldier but they wont kill anyone, even though the people their fighting just killed ton of others.

It seems that the solution to everything is just make the most black and white morally righteous action and all problems are solved. I'm not saying you can't have moral characters but for christ sake their actions have to have at least some kind of consequence!
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24 / M / Cebu, PH
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Posted 7/10/16
I think it's trying to deliver an unrealistic message to the viewers. It's trying to say you get rewarded for good deeds but in real life it just doesn't work out that way. I hate them those guys too but I think it being unrealistic is why it's anime
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Posted 7/10/16
Yeah I get that, the reason I watch anime is because it can do things other mediums can't, but it really bothers me how even on a small scale they use bizzare stupid logic.

For example i'm watching/reading World Trigger right now which i'm enjoying but the main character watches guys rob and beat people multiple times at/around school and just stands there and gets beat up with the others because "its wrong to hurt people" and getting angry at others for doing anything about it because "its wrong. So they are given no recourse or alternative solution, they should just shut up do the right thing and get beat up and mugged constantly and let the same thing happen to others. Wow what a hero for the common man!

What a great message for any kids watching. "hey are you getting bullied, physically assaulted, and robbed at school? Well just take it for a few years and eventually they'll go attack other innocent people! Just remember your the bad person if you defend yourself!"
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Posted 7/10/16 , edited 7/10/16
I found the ending conflict to Monster to be really contrived, because most people wouldn't agree that it is a hard to solve conflict. It may have been a conflict for Tenma, but certainly not for us.



You see this in Trigun too, but Trigun handled it much better with Legatos because of how Vash dealt with the guilt and the aftermath, thinking he could've saved everyone.


Fate Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works also has this as a major theme concerning unrealistic idealism, but they ruined it in Season 2.
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Posted 7/10/16
Yeah I really liked Unlimited Blade Works, and I think Archer is the perfect example of what would happen to an "extremist idealist", showing how always trying to do the most right and moral thing will eventually end in disaster. The Fate/Stay series is rather nihilistic in nature (which I like).

Yeah and I agree with you on season 2
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 7/10/16 , edited 7/10/16

greg8west wrote:

Does it drive anyone else insane the amount of stupidly idealistic characters in so many Anime and Manga series?

It seems that in many series especially action, main and or side characters constantly make incredibly stupid decisions that in any kind of real world situation would be disastrous and instead of any kind of punishment for their dumb actions everything just works out fine.

Like what do you think would really happen if you beat the shit out of some super powerful mass murderer and then just let him go because "im not a murderer", they would just go and kill tons more people which the MC is responsible for but its always portrayed as a good thing with no consequences.

Or the classic example of someone whos supposed to be an elite fighter/soldier but they wont kill anyone, even though the people their fighting just killed ton of others.

It seems that the solution to everything is just make the most black and white morally righteous action and all problems are solved. I'm not saying you can't have moral characters but for christ sake their actions have to have at least some kind of consequence!


I wouldn't kill the murderer as it isn't my job and I'm not a murderer prison exists for a reason.

Actions should have consequences however one should never break their ideals or why bother having them in the first place.


If someone kills people near me I will try to take them down alive if possible however if that isn't an option then killing is sadly the other option.


I have never seen an anime character that is far too idealistic
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Posted 7/10/16

greg8west wrote:

Yeah I get that, the reason I watch anime is because it can do things other mediums can't, but it really bothers me how even on a small scale they use bizzare stupid logic.

For example i'm watching/reading World Trigger right now which i'm enjoying but the main character watches guys rob and beat people multiple times at/around school and just stands there and gets beat up with the others because "its wrong to hurt people" and getting angry at others for doing anything about it because "its wrong. So they are given no recourse or alternative solution, they should just shut up do the right thing and get beat up and mugged constantly and let the same thing happen to others. Wow what a hero for the common man!

What a great message for any kids watching. "hey are you getting bullied, physically assaulted, and robbed at school? Well just take it for a few years and eventually they'll go attack other innocent people! Just remember your the bad person if you defend yourself!"


He is a kid though most kids his age think like that.

I never started to defend myself until I was 16 as I didn't want to be like those who hurt me.
I always was the guy who ran in an took the attack to protect others heck I still do that even now the only difference is I protect myself because I learnt to Dehumanize anyone who hurts me so that way I don't feel bad for hurting them
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Posted 7/10/16
Really you haven't seen any overly idealistic anime characters?
-Touma A Certain Magical Index
-Vash Trigun (although this is arguable)
-Osamu/Chika World Trigger (how can you be part of an "Elite Military" when you can't even shoot someone in TRAINING)
-Elric Brothers Full Metal Alchemist (love this show but they constantly cause more trouble for themselves and others for naive/dumb reasons)
-Shirou Fate/Stay Night (the perfect example of an extremist idealist)
-Raki Claymore (so annoying seriously, get better near the end of the manga tho)
-Many Fairy Tail Characters (still enjoy the show, but seriously they make stupid decisions constantly and everything works out cause friends!)
-Suzaku Code Geass

Its pretty cliche for most shounen's the MC must always do the "right thing" (in their mind), not kill people, etc... and in alot of cases the insane and dumb decisions they make have no consequences whatsoever, and are actually rewarded in many cases for doing things that in any kind of even slightly realistic situation would end with them and their friends dying.

Also I understand that in many cases they are children or teenagers but in many series its considered normal for people their age to fight and even kill, and they are trained to do so. They arent raised in the same environment that you or I were so they would (or should) have a different moral compass than us. Humans aren't born good or bad, and their's no universal morals. We are born as blank slates children who are raised from birth to believe killing is a good thing will have a very different set of morals than us (presumably), in fact if you didn't tell a child that hitting or attacking people is bad they would attack people just because they felt like it.
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Posted 7/10/16 , edited 7/10/16
You're watching too much shounen, is what seems to be the issue.

And in at least half the examples you gave in the post above this, there were consequences from those actions that had to be dealt with.
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Posted 7/10/16

greg8west wrote:
Or the classic example of someone whos supposed to be an elite fighter/soldier but they wont kill anyone, even though the people their fighting just killed ton of others.


Why do you think I cheered for Shinn when he beat Kira's ass in Gundam Seed Destiny?

Granted, I hate that show, but that was very satisfying.
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Posted 7/10/16

rcsatcrunchyroll wrote:


greg8west wrote:
Or the classic example of someone whos supposed to be an elite fighter/soldier but they wont kill anyone, even though the people their fighting just killed ton of others.


Why do you think I cheered for Shinn when he beat Kira's ass in Gundam Seed Destiny?

Granted, I hate that show, but that was very satisfying.


I think Shinn is about the only character I've ever legit hated in an anime. Like, not in the "Because he's a villain" aspect, but in the "I don't condone violence, but I might punch you in the face if you were a real life person that I met" ideology.
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Posted 7/10/16

LionelJeid wrote:
I think Shinn is about the only character I've ever legit hated in an anime.


Understandably. He's far from being a good person, and he makes a lot of bonehead decisions. But, in terms of this topic, Kira "Jesus" Yamato is the worst (IMO).
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Posted 7/10/16 , edited 7/10/16

greg8west wrote:

Really you haven't seen any overly idealistic anime characters?
-Touma A Certain Magical Index
-Vash Trigun (although this is arguable)
-Osamu/Chika World Trigger (how can you be part of an "Elite Military" when you can't even shoot someone in TRAINING)
-Elric Brothers Full Metal Alchemist (love this show but they constantly cause more trouble for themselves and others for naive/dumb reasons)
-Shirou Fate/Stay Night (the perfect example of an extremist idealist)
-Raki Claymore (so annoying seriously, get better near the end of the manga tho)
-Many Fairy Tail Characters (still enjoy the show, but seriously they make stupid decisions constantly and everything works out cause friends!)
-Suzaku Code Geass

Its pretty cliche for most shounen's the MC must always do the "right thing" (in their mind), not kill people, etc... and in alot of cases the insane and dumb decisions they make have no consequences whatsoever, and are actually rewarded in many cases for doing things that in any kind of even slightly realistic situation would end with them and their friends dying.

Also I understand that in many cases they are children or teenagers but in many series its considered normal for people their age to fight and even kill, and they are trained to do so. They arent raised in the same environment that you or I were so they would (or should) have a different moral compass than us. Humans aren't born good or bad, and their's no universal morals. We are born as blank slates children who are raised from birth to believe killing is a good thing will have a very different set of morals than us (presumably), in fact if you didn't tell a child that hitting or attacking people is bad they would attack people just because they felt like it.




The only person i would call over idealistic there is Raki and Shirou

Ideals are very important without ideals you live a worthless life.

Suzaku - Fairy tail characters etc problems stem not from their ideals but how they go about those ideals.


You should always try to do the right thing but you should know it holds consequences.


You should never kill someone unless you have to for example if you are put in a situation where someone is trying to kill you then you should try to save everyone yourself and the killer death is a last choice option.

That's something i believe and something shared by some of the people you listed and that is not too overly idealistic it's a good way to be and think.

You should make whatever decision helps others but doesn't go against your ideals sometimes you are only left with dumb decisions sadly which is where you need to decide are other people worth it or are your ideals which personally i would pick other people but that would make you feel like a shit person for breaking your own ideals.


Also most of the characters you had make semi-rational decisions (except for the unable to shoot one) and every choice they make good or bad does have consequences.
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Posted 7/10/16 , edited 7/13/16
So you're saying it's good to kill people, then?

Okay.


I like idealistic characters. It's not a very nice worldview to think that there can never be peace, and you have to lower yourself to someone else's level to not have them bother you. You're never going to be happy if you think that way.
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Posted 7/10/16
When I say consequences I mean real consequences in alot of shows (im mainly talking about shoenen and action) the MC or whoever is fighting the villain and fails to deliver the decisive blow not even killing just seriously injuring him, usually the girl or friend gets kidnapped for a little bit but they go kick his ass and save the girl with little little harm done, or some variation of this. I can believe it once but when everything essentially returns to the status quo at the end of each arc, its just not idk intense? suspenseful?

I'm not saying the MC should just brutally murder every perceived threat, and i'm not saying all the main characters should be killed either. But just some more serious permanent consequences to good or bad decisions, like betrayal in the vein of Naruto and Sasuke, or permanent loss of important items or resources, or world damage. Just something that adds some weight to the characters actions.

Also just think about what happens in a show like Fairy Tail after they beat up one of the TONS of infamous murderers. The stronger ones usually show up a few times throughout the story, so what do you think people known for being psychotic killers would be doing after they get beaten and humiliated? They always come back stronger and are supposed to be real murderers in the lore so we can assume they have been fighting and killing alot of people many probably innocent, in the period of years sometimes between them showing back up for another fight with the MC's. Can you really say it was a better decision not to kill them? But it would be far more self gratifying to not have to dirty your hands and think everything is just good after that point.

Basically I just want characters to make decisions based on logic more often when their choices are supposed to hold real weight in the story. I'm not saying killing is fantastic (although it can be entertaining) but just logically necessary sometimes, until they just pull a deus ex machina and pat the character on the back for not doing anything.

Also it may not be a very nice world view but when humans are involved there will never be true peace. We are not "moral" by nature, in the end were just animals and most people will act that way when a situation truly gets desperate. I can't just pretend not to see how the world works because that wouldn't make me any happier.

Also i'm digging the debate so far
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