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Posted 7/13/16

LavenderMintRose wrote:


but it still doesn't feel like a justified result of his actions.


What do you mean by "justified"? That they didn't deserve for it to happen? In real life, if you overlook something, it might come back to bite you and ruin your plans even if you don't deserve it, so there's no reason fiction should be different from that. It's not something completely random, like a car accident or a disease - it is something he legitimately overlooked.
It wasn't a case of him being outsmarted by another character, but just like in real life, things happen that aren't the result of any person's intention.


Books aren't real life. There are a lot of things that happen in real life that wouldn't really work in a book. When I say that the result doesn't feel justified, I mean that the outcome wasn't equivalent to the action. While something like that might happen in real life, in a book things need to be set up, or else instead of a tightly woven braid, the threads of the story will begin to resemble a knot, stretching themselves to distant corners and not feeling connected and complete when you look at only the sections shown.

The set up for this event was extremely minimal and didn't really factor largely in the character's arc before this point and it didn't really stand in line with the ideas the show was pushing. It wasn't a result of Lelouch being outsmarted, and it wasn't even really a result of Lelouch making a mistake. This didn't feel like a result of Lelouch abusing his power. They set up those plot threads quite well but instead of him building up a house of cards and it collapsing on him, he built the house of cards and someone threw a rock at it. It felt extraneous, partly because while Lelouch overlooked it, so did the story. A writer needs to ensure that the reader has the information, even if the characters don't (hence dramatic irony).

For example, in Romeo and Juliet, if the reader was kept in the dark that Juliet was sleeping and not dead, when she woke up it would have felt like a strange twist out of the blue and I think it would leave the reader more confused and upset at the story than with the story. If Code Geass had set up these plot threads as a main point by making the reader (or watcher) distinctly aware of them, even if Lelouch was not, I think it would have felt a lot more natural (although it would have lost some of its power as a twist, but I would rather see a scene done right than a twist done poorly). However, this still wouldn't alleviate all of my problems with this twist such as it not really fitting with the show's theme of being a battle of wits or the character's arc.

Sorry for being off topic with this discussion, but I do think that it is still at least somewhat relevant to the thread if Qualeshia plans to walk down the route of controlling people with powers or even just having a lot of moving parts in a story.
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Posted 7/13/16




The reason why legal criminals exist in the first place was because Demetrius's great-grandfather was the king of his mafia house before he became grand-emperor. He was the first one who allowed mafia and gang members to get away from their crimes. Legal criminals are only allowed to kill or steal if their in a mafia or gang. If they are not in a mafia or gang, then they aren't allowed to kill or steal. So Mafia families and gang families are allowed to commit crimes because of Demetrius's great-grandfather. But over the years people claim to be apart of a mafia or gang in order to become a legal criminal. Some people think the whole idea of legal criminals to be stupid and terrible. But nobody questions a grand-emperor. So some people who are legal criminals but aren't in a mafia or gang are roaming around committing crimes. They're mostly Jaggers or Swag Hoodlums. And since no one is doing any investigating into whether these people are actually in a mafia or gang, they're pretty much letting them do as they please. Demetrius wants to get rid of all legal criminals and that includes mafia and gangs. That means going against his father who was also a leader of a mafia and firmly believes that legal criminals should exist. It doesn't make sense and Demetrius wants to end it.

If Demetrius gets rid of legal criminals, mafia, and gangs, that would spell danger for him and his family. But the world is in chaos and something has to be done about it.
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Posted 7/13/16
Thanks for the comments and all. I shall continue working on the plot so more.
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Personally, I can't imagine a world where this type of government system and legal system would work. There are two many paths of thought.

One would be examining how this would work in the modern age. So say we somehow got to a point where the was a King of Earth. Well, the reason virtually all of the great empires of the past have collapsed has been because things just got too big. You can't trust anyone, so you spread yourself too thin and eventually the people tear you apart. It just doesn't work. Now introduce the idea of legal criminals. You now basically have a government for show and are living in worldwide anarchy. You can't simultaneously maintain dominance over the planet and be incredibly lax with the rules. Besides, what Mafia member looks to a competing mafia with a smile and a nod? Competing families hate each other. No chance in hell one would try to make life easy for another because then you have a war on your hands. So, in the modern context, your result would be a fairly quick and large scale rebellion which would overthrow the leadership and again fragment the globe. This could largely be dominated by Mafia families, however they would operate largely how mafia families operate. They aren't just reckless killing machines. They are organized and they turn a profit. They protect the people under their wing, but they take no prisoners and are certainly not okay with other people edging in on their turf.

The second context would be looking at this in a more medieval/feudal sense. Lets say the world is Westeros (Game of Thrones). Theres the one king, and below that are many different families who follow the king with varying levels of allegiance. Well first of all, GoT shows pretty clearly that this isn't a politically stable ecosystem. It would be very unlikely to see a monarchy in line with the United Kingdom (lasting hundreds of years), especially with policies which evoke so much turmoil. Now lets talk about those policies. In such a world, citizens are a currency. If you have a lot of men, you have power. As such, you usually aren't cool with people killing other people. There may be blatant abuse of power and possibly some psychopaths leading houses for a short period of time, but allowing your people to kill decreases your power which increases your likelihood of dying. Beyond that, again, anarchy such as that is unsustainable. If you honestly hold those rules, your people will revolt and you will lose your power.

I'd say the closest we get to that idea is something like in Mexico, where the cartels are breaking the law, and the government is trying to stop them but there are bribes and threats which keep the cartels out of serious harm.

So to sum it up, the concept of legal criminal would create anarchy which is not sustainable or desirable for a ruling party. Beyond that, crime syndicates are not friendly with each other, so they wouldn't want to benefit each other.

I can't imagine a scenario where legal criminals as you described them would exist.

Also, where did Demitrius get his morality from? If he grew up in a family of criminals, it doesn't really follow that he would be this kind hearted, perfect body who hates crime. How did his past shape him?
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Personally, I am out of options on what Demetrius should do.
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Posted 7/13/16

qualeshia3 wrote:

Personally, I am out of options on what Demetrius should do.


Well, think about it.

I'd say the first question would be what is your premise? You already have that answered. Your premise is that these characters gain a superpower.

Second question is what are your literary themes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theme_(narrative))? What is that central idea (with the idea of superpowers, you can tailor the powers to fit the theme)? You can go a lot of different routes with this story so it entirely depends on what you want to say. For example, I'd say one of the central themes of my novel would be "identity" (not incredibly original, but its what I've got). The main character struggles from dissociation identity disorder and struggles to understand who he really is, and many of the other characters express struggles based on their identity in different ways.

Next, think about your character, Demetrius. Once you have the theme, you can think about how to fit a character arc into that theme.

Finally, once you understand who the character is, you can think about what will push him to change and that will define where your plot comes from and what your "antagonist" is.


Now this is a very procedural way of creating a story, but I'd say that this is the general flow of understanding how to create a conflict. You can jump around as you like, but one thing should still logically flow into the other at the end of the day. The key is finding your theme.
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Posted 7/13/16

sundin13 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

Personally, I am out of options on what Demetrius should do.


Well, think about it.

I'd say the first question would be what is your premise? You already have that answered. Your premise is that these characters gain a superpower.

Second question is what are your literary themes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theme_(narrative))? What is that central idea (with the idea of superpowers, you can tailor the powers to fit the theme)? You can go a lot of different routes with this story so it entirely depends on what you want to say. For example, I'd say one of the central themes of my novel would be "identity" (not incredibly original, but its what I've got). The main character struggles from dissociation identity disorder and struggles to understand who he really is, and many of the other characters express struggles based on their identity in different ways.

Next, think about your character, Demetrius. Once you have the theme, you can think about how to fit a character arc into that theme.

Finally, once you understand who the character is, you can think about what will push him to change and that will define where your plot comes from and what your "antagonist" is.


Now this is a very procedural way of creating a story, but I'd say that this is the general flow of understanding how to create a conflict. You can jump around as you like, but one thing should still logically flow into the other at the end of the day. The key is finding your theme.



I just I could make it about two people who gain the same super power and try lead normal lives. Ugh! I'M OUT OF OPTIONS HERE!!!!
I could probably make it a slice of life novel.
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Posted 7/14/16
Or you could just get rid of the legal criminals thing.

The concept works without it. There can be other reasons the main characters don't like what their parents are doing (see both Charles zi Britannia and Genbu Kururugi, other Geass examples, plus countless examples in other shows I've seen you mention (you had Magi as your icon previously)).

Their fathers taking bribes and allowing some small degree of mafia activity to go on. Them doing so just because the mafia leaders are their childhood friends. Them doing so because the ones being taken advantage of are peasants, or smaller, less powerful countries, and they don't care about those people.
They could be doing so because the smuggling revenue actually ends up adding a lot to their economy - there are real-life examples of this, too. A country has something outlawed because it would look really bad if they didn't, but really, they frequently let criminals get away with it because there are benefits for them. This could be purely economic benefit - drug/smuggling revenue, for example. Or it could be some other benefit - the police in Japan let the Yakuza operate rather freely in some places because the Yakuza groups take care of certain things in the area that the police would rather not be bothered with, or don't have the resources to handle. Same with mafia groups in some parts of Italy. If you want to write about mafia, do research. There are plenty of resources out there.
But don't make the king say that x group of people is just free to do whatever they want, and let them get away with killing people. It just wouldn't happen, for the reasons Sundin said, and for other reasons as well.

I wouldn't say don't write it, or make it slice-of-life. Big sweeping kingdom dramas are good. You just have to know what you're doing, but it's not impossible to learn.
Also, read about history. Don't watch documentaries - they often end up being way too simplistic, or they try to feed into some trend they feel like people want, regardless of accuracy. But think of some era that you find interesting - start with settings of books, anime, movies, etc. that you like - and read about it, online or in books or wherever. The best way to learn how to write kingdoms can be to see how real ones actually behave.
Also watch Shakespeare - watch, not read, because it's really hard to get the flavor of what the story is from just reading the script. Look up the BBC series "The Hollow Crown" if you haven't seen it. It's really good, and particularly relevant. A lot of real kings have been amazed at how well Shakespeare was able to get into the minds of kings in the Henry IV and Henry V plays.
And... I hesitate to recommend this book, because it's not entirely accurate, but I think it might help you. It's called Freakonomics, and it's a non-fiction book about how some things end up having outcomes no one expected, but why they go that way, and what was missing from the expectations. It can be really interesting.

(In response to the Geass discussion: Like I said, Mao was the setup. Lelouch - and the viewers - knew from that situation that that would eventually happen. Lelouch decided to deal with it later. Even earlier in that episode, episode 22, his power starts to activate (when he's saving the kid) and he sort of shuts his eye to stop it. Then there's a moment where he, C.C., and Suzaku all sort of black out. Notice how it doesn't show his eye between then and when he says the thing, and then the camera turns onto him. (As for why he said it? Stress. The one thing this show gets so much flack for is actually letting the characters be affected by stress.) )
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Posted 7/14/16




I've decided to work on another story. I already posted the plot for the story. Ask me any questions you want about it.
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