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Dragon
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Posted 7/20/16


As with any advice, be sure to take this with a grain or three of salt, but...

---

First things first, don't let getting let go get you down. If they didn't give a reason when they told you not to come in, most likely it was internal company stuff - lack of funding, shift in direction, someone high up wanting to hire a buddy instead, any number of things. But if it was something you did wrong, a good employer would try to work with you before letting you go, and reiterate the problem when they let you go. So it wasn't your fault.

I've interviewed a lot of folks at some companies, and I have to admit, a Master's almost never impresses as much as passion. If you do your own projects, it can show off your skill, let you learn, and expand your portfolio, while also not costing you an arm and a leg for classes that might not even help you. I worked with PhD's, and they never minded the fact that I only have a pair of BS's, folks that only had a single, or the folks who simply went to trade schools or had lots of experience - because they worried about skills and excitement, not degrees.

Taking a trip is actually an attractive option as well - even from a hiring perspective. Again, it shows passion, and a desire to learn and experience the world. That's huge, and can make someone a better employee. And it might give you some time to recenter and reset your life. If you choose to do that, make sure you keep a large buffer in your savings, though, since you'll still likely have some hunting to do when you get back.

In general, make sure you tailor the email you send off to each company to the company - explain a bit about why you want to work there, what aspects of their company line up with your skills or interests, that kind of thing. Better still if you customize your resume for each. Doesn't have to be huge changes, but do change at least a little bit (intro section on the first page is good), since most of the time, the cover letter / email gets you past HR, but most of the interviewers only see the resume. Keep it 2 pages or under as well, since you can always talk more about your experience during the interview. When you actually go in for the interview, bring a few printed copies of the resume with you, since not everyone you meet might have one handy, and being prepared impresses. Worst case, you can also use them as note paper. Have some questions about the possible projects you might be put on, that kind of thing to show you are interested and excited.

Now, just as a last ditch thing, if you dip too low in your savings, going for a minimum wage job will at least let you stay level while still sending out resumes and working on your portfolio. Not the best option, to be sure, but neither is going hungry.
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Posted 7/20/16

cdarklock wrote:


DubiousBro wrote:

26 applications sent out so far


Well, THERE'S your problem. ;)

It has always taken me two to three hundred resumes and four to six interviews to get a job offer. Basically, about 2% of my resumes produced an interview, and about 20% of those interviews produced an offer. I have also found that my prospects are dramatically improved if I receive multiple job offers in a short enough time frame that I can play them off one another. I like to get at least three.

That's about a thousand resumes. If I send out fifty a day, I can do that in a month (taking weekends off), and then it's relatively easy to schedule all my initial interviews - 15 or so - in the same week. Almost everyone will give you a week or two to consider the offer, so I usually end up with three or four job offers to toss back and forth until someone offers me what I want.

Now, realistically, most people I know only send out a couple hundred. They take about four months to do it, usually getting an interview each month. And they take the first offer they get. That's not too far off from what you're doing, but their results aren't that great. And it matches what I see myself: send out fifty resumes, get one interview, five interviews will get you an offer.

Statistically, this looks like what the employment department in my state expects, too: unemployment insurance lasts six months, and during that six months you are expected to make three employment contacts per workday or 15 per week. That's a total of 390 contacts, which will give a conscientious and honest applicant roughly a 90% certainty of landing a job - and about half of them will land one in three months.

Now, it stands to reason that if you want to get more offers, you have to do more interviews - and if you want to get more interviews, you have to send out more resumes. A lot of people will say "just write better resumes," or "just do better interviews," but think about that for a moment.

Don't you already write the best resumes AND do the best interviews that you can?

Chances are good that you CAN'T do better. So in the absence of better, do more. You already know how to send a resume. Just do more of it. More is almost always easier than better.

Don't get me wrong, ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING. If you are too depressed and unmotivated to send out fifty resumes, or ten, or even one, THAT IS OKAY. Do what you can do. It is not "this or nothing." It is "as close to this as you can get." More, if you can manage - if you're motivated enough to send out three hundred resumes in a single day, hell, GO FOR IT. Can't hurt, right?

And if you're at all normal, you are currently wondering why they didn't teach you this in school. I wondered that, too.



I wish there were hundreds or thousands of jobs in my field that I actually qualify for. Daily, there are maybe 50-100 new posts in the USA alone, a lot of those end up being things I do not meet requirements for. Maybe I am selling myself short by not applying to those? I feel like I have sent out a good amount so far, but maybe I should apply to some things that may be above my pay grade and see what happens.
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24 / M / KY
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Posted 7/20/16

MakotoKamui wrote:



As with any advice, be sure to take this with a grain or three of salt, but...

---

First things first, don't let getting let go get you down. If they didn't give a reason when they told you not to come in, most likely it was internal company stuff - lack of funding, shift in direction, someone high up wanting to hire a buddy instead, any number of things. But if it was something you did wrong, a good employer would try to work with you before letting you go, and reiterate the problem when they let you go. So it wasn't your fault.

I've interviewed a lot of folks at some companies, and I have to admit, a Master's almost never impresses as much as passion. If you do your own projects, it can show off your skill, let you learn, and expand your portfolio, while also not costing you an arm and a leg for classes that might not even help you. I worked with PhD's, and they never minded the fact that I only have a pair of BS's, folks that only had a single, or the folks who simply went to trade schools or had lots of experience - because they worried about skills and excitement, not degrees.

Taking a trip is actually an attractive option as well - even from a hiring perspective. Again, it shows passion, and a desire to learn and experience the world. That's huge, and can make someone a better employee. And it might give you some time to recenter and reset your life. If you choose to do that, make sure you keep a large buffer in your savings, though, since you'll still likely have some hunting to do when you get back.

In general, make sure you tailor the email you send off to each company to the company - explain a bit about why you want to work there, what aspects of their company line up with your skills or interests, that kind of thing. Better still if you customize your resume for each. Doesn't have to be huge changes, but do change at least a little bit (intro section on the first page is good), since most of the time, the cover letter / email gets you past HR, but most of the interviewers only see the resume. Keep it 2 pages or under as well, since you can always talk more about your experience during the interview. When you actually go in for the interview, bring a few printed copies of the resume with you, since not everyone you meet might have one handy, and being prepared impresses. Worst case, you can also use them as note paper. Have some questions about the possible projects you might be put on, that kind of thing to show you are interested and excited.

Now, just as a last ditch thing, if you dip too low in your savings, going for a minimum wage job will at least let you stay level while still sending out resumes and working on your portfolio. Not the best option, to be sure, but neither is going hungry.


I have had people look at my resume and have been told that it's fine. It is a single page and a bit brief, but the design and layout is really nice and looks neat. Surprising that the level of education isn't a big deal these days. I have seen a lot of positions where they specifically state the experience requirement can be waived for someone with a Master's or PhD, essentially making it a lot harder for someone with a BS/BA to outcompete those folks. The trip sounds like a very good idea right now, thankfully I live in a relatively low cost-of-living area where rent isn't obscenely high like it is in California or N.Y.

All of these opinions are definitely providing the insight I wanted to figure out where I should head from here. :)

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47 / M / Auburn, Washington
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Posted 7/21/16

DubiousBro wrote:

I wish there were hundreds or thousands of jobs in my field that I actually qualify for.



It doesn't matter if you're qualified and it doesn't matter if they're hiring. All that matters is that you get your resume in front of someone who hires people.

It's very common for a company to advertise for what we call a "pony" - the perfect candidate for the job, who probably doesn't exist and wouldn't take the job at a salary they can afford anyway. And what ends up happening is that they hire someone who isn't qualified, according to the ad.

Another common situation is that they'll hire someone internally who isn't qualified, but that they trust to get the job done. Trouble is, that person already has a job, and now they need to backfill that job - so they need someone LESS qualified.

Either way, having your resume in front of the hiring manager MIGHT get you the job, and not sending it never will.
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Posted 7/23/16

cdarklock wrote:


DubiousBro wrote:

I wish there were hundreds or thousands of jobs in my field that I actually qualify for.



It doesn't matter if you're qualified and it doesn't matter if they're hiring. All that matters is that you get your resume in front of someone who hires people.

It's very common for a company to advertise for what we call a "pony" - the perfect candidate for the job, who probably doesn't exist and wouldn't take the job at a salary they can afford anyway. And what ends up happening is that they hire someone who isn't qualified, according to the ad.

Another common situation is that they'll hire someone internally who isn't qualified, but that they trust to get the job done. Trouble is, that person already has a job, and now they need to backfill that job - so they need someone LESS qualified.

Either way, having your resume in front of the hiring manager MIGHT get you the job, and not sending it never will.


Brilliantly said. It takes a lot of time and effort, but if you don't put your resume out there, you won't get a bite.
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40 / M / End of Nowhere
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Posted 7/23/16 , edited 7/23/16
Sigh. See below. Finicky keyboard.

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Posted 7/23/16 , edited 7/23/16

DubiousBro wrote:

I have had people look at my resume and have been told that it's fine. It is a single page and a bit brief, but the design and layout is really nice and looks neat. Surprising that the level of education isn't a big deal these days. I have seen a lot of positions where they specifically state the experience requirement can be waived for someone with a Master's or PhD, essentially making it a lot harder for someone with a BS/BA to outcompete those folks. The trip sounds like a very good idea right now, thankfully I live in a relatively low cost-of-living area where rent isn't obscenely high like it is in California or N.Y.

All of these opinions are definitely providing the insight I wanted to figure out where I should head from here. :)



As Makoto said, take this worth a grain of salt.

One thing to consider is that if your resume looks "good", that is it looks just like how all those books on "How to write a Resume" say it should look, then you can rest assured that it looks just like the other 500 resume's in the pile. It may be necessary to change it up a little to stand out. Rather than just talk about what you did in a previous job, talk about how what you did will help the company you are applying for. Anyone can write that they grew sales by 150% for example. Or increased efficiency by 20%. Being descriptive about how you did it and how you can use a similar process at that company may work better.

Whether you do some travel or volunteer work is really up to you. But whatever you do, do it because you want to do it and because you enjoy it. So that you can enjoy the experience. In rational job application terms, these things help. But usually only if you can demonstrate your passion for them and how it will translate to the job you are applying for. Which it almost always can in some way or another, but only if you are passionate and enthusiastic about it. So traveling to Sudan to help build ditches will not be as useful to you if you do not enjoy that, whereas if you really want to visit Japan and are enthusiastic about it, that would probably work better.

Whatever it is you do, you should be doing it because you want to, because it makes you happy doing it.

I think ultimately the important part in life is that you should enjoy what you are doing. Whatever that is. Being unhappy at doing something just eats away at the soul.
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Posted 7/24/16
Hello internet friend. I can only speak from my experience. Adulting is hard business and each decision you make will effect the ultimate outcome of your life. I personally value time and experiences over money most of the time. I always regretted not going on a trip or enjoying life, and the work that I did instead of those trips is a nonexistent memory. I'd rather have great memories. I am 26 so not too much older than you, but life, friends, and experiences are what I value. What do you value?
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Posted 7/24/16
Posted 7/24/16
How it feels to be an adult

LIB53 
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Posted 7/25/16
Right out of college, we really don't have all the survival smarts, and the self-doubt and depression can be so debilitating, I can't even begin to explain. Realistically speaking, you will simply need to stay afloat and rebuild your confidence. Confidence will do wonders on that debilitating state of mind. I had an excellent high school teacher who once told us, "Write your name first when you take a test. That's one answer you won't get wrong." She went on to tell us how much of a positive impact it had on students. Personally, I would get terrible test anxiety, but that little trick helped me out. Keeping your head straight is an important part. You can give yourself similar small successes and boost your confidence. You'll need a plan, and maybe some fallback plans so that when you fail, you'll just shift to the next plan (all according to plan, nice one). I see you have thought out some options. Maybe mull those over, and try to put them as plan A, plan B, etc. You seem to be a bit down, but I believe you still have quite a bit of fight in you. Best of luck, I figure you can do it. Keep on fighting the fight.

(Watching a sports anime might help too. I recommend Yowamushi Pedal, good shit. )
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24 / M / KY
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Posted 7/26/16

LIB53 wrote:

Right out of college, we really don't have all the survival smarts, and the self-doubt and depression can be so debilitating, I can't even begin to explain. Realistically speaking, you will simply need to stay afloat and rebuild your confidence. Confidence will do wonders on that debilitating state of mind. I had an excellent high school teacher who once told us, "Write your name first when you take a test. That's one answer you won't get wrong." She went on to tell us how much of a positive impact it had on students. Personally, I would get terrible test anxiety, but that little trick helped me out. Keeping your head straight is an important part. You can give yourself similar small successes and boost your confidence. You'll need a plan, and maybe some fallback plans so that when you fail, you'll just shift to the next plan (all according to plan, nice one). I see you have thought out some options. Maybe mull those over, and try to put them as plan A, plan B, etc. You seem to be a bit down, but I believe you still have quite a bit of fight in you. Best of luck, I figure you can do it. Keep on fighting the fight.

(Watching a sports anime might help too. I recommend Yowamushi Pedal, good shit. )




This is very true. Self-doubt is a huge thing, and it's tough to deal with. I find myself worrying about getting another job and being laid off from that one and then having trouble establishing a career... it's easier to just watch anime and enjoy life rather than ruminate on what the future may or may not hold.

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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 7/28/16
Some day a crazy wild eyed scientist or a kid may show up asking about a book and if that ever happens, don't tell them anything.
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Posted 7/28/16
I have two general advice: 1) make connection; 2) be like Sadao Maou and Shorou Ashiya so you can be compete with foreign workers by living on smaller wage.
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