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Post Reply In the USA, many people blame whites for historical atrocities, but some things are overlooked
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Posted 7/25/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Using such examples to downplay the racial politics of American slavery is just stupid. Yes, they're all true, but trying to make American slavery seem less racist and discriminatory in comparison because "Blacks sold their own into slavery" and "blacks own slaves" does not dispute the ugly reality that yes, American Slavery was essentially promoting an imperialistic and social Darwinist view on non whites. To say that American Slavery wasn't really all about race is just revisionism that the history books are trying to remedy. Seriously? This is shit like this that makes people hate right wingers.


What the actual fuck, did I just agree with something PV said....
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XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

Downplayed? At the highest point of slavery about 1.6% of the white population owned slaves. You know how many free blacks did? 1 in 4. And they treated their slaves like shit, too. To top it off, I'm pretty sure that statistic never accounted for the amount of slaves, either. So we have a disproportionate amount of blacks owning other blacks in comparison.


While it might be true that only a small percentage of whites owned slaves, the actual number of people who were benefiting from the system was much higher. Slave labor in the Americas wasn't just a personal luxury for the elite, it was the driving force behind their plantation-based economies. People who wore cotton shirts made from cotton picked by slaves? Benefiting from slave labor. People who smoked tobacco grown by slaves? Benefiting from slave labor. People who's sugar was refined in a mill worked by slaves? Benefiting from slaver labor. Not to mention the families of the slaveholder, the members of his community, the white employees who also work on their plantation, the families of those white employees, etc, etc; all benefiting from slavery. You didn't have to actually own slaves to indirectly benefit from the slave system.

Also, on the subject of black slaveholders. If that figure is the same one I heard talked about in another part of the internet, than that was from a study of New Orleans before the Civil War. That's hardly an all-encompassing figure. While there were most certainly black slave owners who exploited the system for their own personal gain (because cruelty is not exclusive to skin color), a large majority of them owned less than ten slaves (maybe more, but that's not enough for a plantation). This is because most of these slaves were the family members of the slave holder. There was a benefit to maintaining ownership over one's family in those days. If slave hunters decided to kidnap them to sell them off (which could very likely happen), then the owner could use their claim of ownership to get them back, thus protecting them.


Slavery, although it did promote a large culture of racism, was never about racism in the first place, its about power. This time in history just so happened to have Africans getting the shit end of the stick, and they were mostly people that would have been slaves in their country of origin regardless.

So, no. You're incorrect.


The intent of white slaveholders when they formulated the system doesn't really matter. It wasn't about racism when it began, but it sure as hell was later when everyone bought the inferior race narrative hook, line and sinker. Really I don't see what revealing that tidbit is supposed to do to support your argument. If anything, it makes the whole thing worse because it means the first slaveholders didn't even buy their own snake oil, so the entire social system of racial superiority and hierarchy is based on a lie. A lie motivated by profit and a disregard for human dignity. That isn't an argument for why we should sweep the whole thing under the rug. That's an argument for why it should be called out for the load of bull that it is, and why the legacy of that lie should be talked about.

Finally, on you saying that these Africans would have been slaves regardless. It might've been their own people enslaving them, but the slavers were the ones creating the demand for slaves by trading guns and other wealth to the local rulers. They're also the ones who bought them and shipped them all the way to the New World. Saying, "they would have been slaves regardless", is just a way to duck the European responsibility for knowingly creating the trade, and for benefiting from it.
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Posted 7/25/16 , edited 7/25/16
"In my time slavery was okey and a good thing" hurr hurr...
But yeah sometimes (very few) slavery was good and did good XP
"Butler come here!"
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I guess some could need a job, so be her butler for the day
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Posted 7/26/16 , edited 7/26/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


D4nc3Style wrote:


dragontackle wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:


dragontackle wrote:

Well since were on the subject of atrocities..Why is it only that white people are blamed for slavery when Jews were even more involved?


How many freaking Neo-Nazis can there be in one forum ?


How does asking a question on why common American history solely focuses white people being responsible for Slavery equate to being a Neo Nazi? Stop false flagging shit.


He just hates white people.

He's just being edgy.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Using such examples to downplay the racial politics of American slavery is just stupid. Yes, they're all true, but trying to make American slavery seem less racist and discriminatory in comparison because "Blacks sold their own into slavery" and "blacks own slaves" does not dispute the ugly reality that yes, American Slavery was essentially promoting an imperialistic and social Darwinist view on non whites. To say that American Slavery wasn't really all about race is just revisionism that the history books are trying to remedy. Seriously? This is shit like this that makes people hate right wingers.

Downplayed? At the highest point of slavery about 1.6% of the white population owned slaves. You know how many free blacks did? 1 in 4. And they treated their slaves like shit, too. To top it off, I'm pretty sure that statistic never accounted for the amount of slaves, either. So we have a disproportionate amount of blacks owning other blacks in comparison.

Slavery, although it did promote a large culture of racism, was never about racism in the first place, its about power. This time in history just so happened to have Africans getting the shit end of the stick, and they were mostly people that would have been slaves in their country of origin regardless.

So, no. You're incorrect.


I don't see how we're both wrong. Isn't racism and imperialism about the illusion of power? I was specifically referring to American slavery, which did have an element of racism to it. To say it didn't is just being idiotic. That's all I'm saying. Most southerners support slavery because of bullshit reasons like racism and the fact that blacks were apparently better off in America (Which strangely seems true.) How many blacks own whites?

I think we both agree on the same thing, that american slavery contributed to a period of racial and imperialism, was indeed "about" race and well....power. Though I think I see your point. Maybe they didn't believe in their racist claims, but just wanted to hold power. Hmmm....
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Some people here don't seem to understand what racism is. Racism isn't simply about disliking someone or even discrimination. Racism is ALL about power. Racism is institutional, not necessarily personal. It affects american decisions in a way you would think absurd in other places in the world. If anyone really is interested in where much of this comes from, Dr. Joy de Gruy Leary has a video called Post Traumatic Disorder on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQ-Ci6LwVw

Even if you aren't interested in her theories or the history of racism in America, the last 20-30 minutes, talking about modern times, should interest anyone who uses their brain on this subject.
Towards the end of the video, she asks everyone this:
How does white racism impact the lives of black americans as a whole entire group?
Then she asks how does black racism impact the lives of white americans as an entire group? What do you think the answers to those questions were?

There is a big difference. Of course, there are some things black americans can and should do for themselves, but all americans lie to themselves about the impact slavery and the racism that arose from it still has on our country.

As for other nonsense, like why blacks commit more crime or why it seems like blacks have this or that negative trait, try me. I can probably help with most average ignorance and misinformation if others are able and willing to read the evidence presented.
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The racism part is the important thing about slavery. Why is it that a black person in the UK is not afraid of the police while the average black person in the US is? Both countries had slavery, but one country knew it was just a means to an end while America went out of it's way to justify it just so they didn't have to feel as bad.
White Americans, unlike the slavers before them, engaged in pure chattel slavery. Unlike Arab slavery or other types of slavery, which were generally viewed as consequences of war, smuggling, or punishments for crimes and debt, black people in america were not only slaves, but viewed as naturally inferior in every way. This view was not dependent on whether or not someone owned slaves, it was generally disseminated to the point that it became the "truth", generally accepted by all Americans, including most black people. This "truth" is what makes American slavery so dangerous. Slavery physically ended, but the ideas that were created to support it for so long didn't go anywhere, they are still around in their entirety, passed along to every American, and to everyone where our influence reaches. And we don't even know it. Because it never had a specific origin, most people don't even realise their ideas have no real basis and instead of challenging the ideas, go and look for any evidence to justify that nagging feeling, that unexplained fear, that unusual callousness. The average person, even the average black person, simply doesn't feel the same amount of pain or empathy when a black person is killed as when a white person is. Numerous studies confirm this. Why do you think that is?
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Posted 7/26/16

sunadajae wrote:
Some people here don't seem to understand what racism is. Racism isn't simply about disliking someone or even discrimination. Racism is ALL about power. Racism is institutional, not necessarily personal. It affects american decisions in a way you would think absurd in other places in the world.
lol...

Even if you aren't interested in her theories or the history of racism in America, the last 20-30 minutes, talking about modern times, should interest anyone who uses their brain on this subject.
There is a big difference. Of course, there are some things black americans can and should do for themselves, but all americans lie to themselves about the impact slavery and the racism that arose from it still has on our country.
some of it, but some has been created from other things and how some of the things are now not everything is from the past only some of it like for example kkk at least there is less and less extreme people like that?.. -__-

Towards the end of the video, she asks everyone this:
How does white racism impact the lives of black americans as a whole entire group?
Then she asks how does black racism impact the lives of white americans as an entire group?
hahaha...racism will impact anyone..


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Posted 7/26/16

Freddy96NO wrote:


sunadajae wrote:
Some people here don't seem to understand what racism is. Racism isn't simply about disliking someone or even discrimination. Racism is ALL about power. Racism is institutional, not necessarily personal. It affects american decisions in a way you would think absurd in other places in the world.
lol...

Even if you aren't interested in her theories or the history of racism in America, the last 20-30 minutes, talking about modern times, should interest anyone who uses their brain on this subject.
There is a big difference. Of course, there are some things black americans can and should do for themselves, but all americans lie to themselves about the impact slavery and the racism that arose from it still has on our country.
some of it, but some has been created from other things and how some of the things are now not everything is from the past only some of it like for example kkk at least there is less and less extreme people like that?.. -__-

Towards the end of the video, she asks everyone this:
How does white racism impact the lives of black americans as a whole entire group?
Then she asks how does black racism impact the lives of white americans as an entire group?
hahaha...racism will impact anyone..




I see you have lots of laughs but nothing specific to say, meaning you don't know and also didn't bother looking at the video.
The truth is, there aren't fewer or 'less extreme' people than the kkk. There are more, it just isn't front page news. The number of militias, mostly white supremacist ones calling themselves 'patriotic', skyrocketed to over 10x their number after obama got elected.


It seems you are yet another person in denial, but that denial can be overcome through education. You think you know something, so challenge me, ask some questions. I have asked one that you couldn't answer. A list, please, from anyone here. What are the ways in which white racism negatively impacts the lives of black people as a whole group today? and the same for black racism, what ways does it negatively impact the lives of white people as a whole?
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Posted 7/26/16

sunadajae wrote:
and the same for black racism, what ways does it negatively impact the lives of white people as a whole?
black or white... racism is still racism..

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Posted 7/26/16 , edited 7/26/16

Freddy96NO wrote:


sunadajae wrote:
and the same for black racism, what ways does it negatively impact the lives of white people as a whole?
black or white... racism is still racism..



Again, you can't seem to answer the questions. Does it hurt you so much to think about that for a second? or maybe you already have thought about it, and realized your error and are too embarrassed to say so.

Here: I'll start the list for you:

white racism: education, jobs, justice system.... you can add anything else you think of that affects black people negatively as a group.

black racism: what should we put here? what impact does black racism have on white people as an entire group?


If you can't come up with an identical list, then you must have noticed something. The impact of racism is very much unequal. Racism is NOT racism, as you put it. In fact, the only place black racism can even exist is in small situations and communities where blacks hold power, such as a white kid who gets beat up or excluded at a majority black school. You probably can't think of anything that black people as a whole do which negatively impacts the lives of white people in general over the entire country, but a list of the reverse would be hard to exhaust. Yet you would still say that racism is racism? Your definition of racism to begin with is flawed. Racism requires power.

If you realize that, then you can start to realize the problem. People are not complaining about the past, they aren't whining about someone disliking them or being rude. Black people are not just affected by dislike, they are physically handicapped and actively held back by these stupid antiquated ideas. These ideas kill them, keep them from getting loans, keep them from getting an equal education, and keep even highly educated, wealthy black people who do everything right from getting fairness in the justice system. Of course this is on the whole, there are always going to be a few people who are lucky. That said, do you see now a little of why the current situation is unacceptable?
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Posted 7/26/16

sunadajae wrote:
Racism requires power.
racism requires a different race, where things happen because of different race?...

If you realize that, then you can start to realize the problem.
People are not complaining about the past, they aren't whining about someone disliking them or being rude.
well quite some does.. and its annoying "our ancestors made this place".. "all this was build upon this and that we OWN" -__-

Black people are not just affected by dislike, they are physically handicapped and actively held back by these stupid antiquated ideas.
held back by who?... sure there are people that is quite racist that do such things but its not a whole force (even though there is communites on both sides hating on each other because of race or around them being of such color).
In no way.. are every black person actively hold back by some... "force" or something -___-

These ideas kill them, keep them from getting loans, keep them from getting an equal education, and keep even highly educated, wealthy black people who do everything right from getting fairness in the justice system. Of course this is on the whole, there are always going to be a few people who are lucky. That said, do you see now a little of why the current situation is unacceptable?
well depends mostly on where you live does it not? and who you live around.
Money problem is a way to not get in on the education not being held back by education... where movements allready does that to them (since they think its that important over education).. sad..
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Posted 7/26/16 , edited 7/26/16

Freddy96NO wrote:
]well depends mostly on where you live does it not? and who you live around.
Money problem is a way to not get in on the education not being held back by education... where movements allready does that to them (since they think its that important over education).. sad..





That's the thing. NO. it does not depend on where they live, it does not depend on how educated they are, it does not depend on how much money they have. They account for all of those things in studies over and over again. What they find is that the only impact less money, or less education, or poor locations have is simply to increase an already existing disparity. Regardless of all of those factors, black people on the whole are less likely to get certain things in this country. They are less likely to be treated fairly and more likely to be negatively impacted in nearly every aspect of civil society. And again, I have yet to hear a single way white people as a whole are negatively impacted by black racism.

Racism is indeed a "force". It is invisible, yet it affects even you. Why, why are you trying so hard to ignore the overwhelming evidence of inequality, or to make up reasons for it that aren't race based just because you don't want it to be true? You, because of racism, are unable to accept reality. It makes you uncomfortable. I am a fairly educated person, I am perfectly happy to answer any questions, meet any challenges, yet you seem to want to skim over any and all facts available.

Also, why does "our ancestors built this place" annoy you so much? Is it not at least partially true? Why would that bother you if it is true?
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Posted 7/26/16 , edited 7/26/16

walker1455 wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

Downplayed? At the highest point of slavery about 1.6% of the white population owned slaves. You know how many free blacks did? 1 in 4. And they treated their slaves like shit, too. To top it off, I'm pretty sure that statistic never accounted for the amount of slaves, either. So we have a disproportionate amount of blacks owning other blacks in comparison.


While it might be true that only a small percentage of whites owned slaves, the actual number of people who were benefiting from the system was much higher. Slave labor in the Americas wasn't just a personal luxury for the elite, it was the driving force behind their plantation-based economies. People who wore cotton shirts made from cotton picked by slaves? Benefiting from slave labor. People who smoked tobacco grown by slaves? Benefiting from slave labor. People who's sugar was refined in a mill worked by slaves? Benefiting from slaver labor. Not to mention the families of the slaveholder, the members of his community, the white employees who also work on their plantation, the families of those white employees, etc, etc; all benefiting from slavery. You didn't have to actually own slaves to indirectly benefit from the slave system.

You like chocolate?


Also, on the subject of black slaveholders. If that figure is the same one I heard talked about in another part of the internet, than that was from a study of New Orleans before the Civil War. That's hardly an all-encompassing figure. While there were most certainly black slave owners who exploited the system for their own personal gain (because cruelty is not exclusive to skin color), a large majority of them owned less than ten slaves (maybe more, but that's not enough for a plantation). This is because most of these slaves were the family members of the slave holder. There was a benefit to maintaining ownership over one's family in those days. If slave hunters decided to kidnap them to sell them off (which could very likely happen), then the owner could use their claim of ownership to get them back, thus protecting them.

A fair point. I'm using that statistic from memory, so you may be correct that it is a limited figure, but the point of it was not the sheer number of black slave owners. I simply used it because it shows that people don't give a fuck about what color you are if they can get free labor out of you.

For example, I believe someone already mentioned that blacks owned white slaves, and white people owned white slaves, too. And these white slaves were certainly not in any short supply.



Slavery, although it did promote a large culture of racism, was never about racism in the first place, its about power. This time in history just so happened to have Africans getting the shit end of the stick, and they were mostly people that would have been slaves in their country of origin regardless.

So, no. You're incorrect.


The intent of white slaveholders when they formulated the system doesn't really matter. It wasn't about racism when it began, but it sure as hell was later when everyone bought the inferior race narrative hook, line and sinker. Really I don't see what revealing that tidbit is supposed to do to support your argument. If anything, it makes the whole thing worse because it means the first slaveholders didn't even buy their own snake oil, so the entire social system of racial superiority and hierarchy is based on a lie. A lie motivated by profit and a disregard for human dignity. That isn't an argument for why we should sweep the whole thing under the rug. That's an argument for why it should be called out for the load of bull that it is, and why the legacy of that lie should be talked about.

There was a small vocal minority who sincerely believed that the black man was inferior to the white. So, no. You are wrong.


Finally, on you saying that these Africans would have been slaves regardless. It might've been their own people enslaving them, but the slavers were the ones creating the demand for slaves by trading guns and other wealth to the local rulers. They're also the ones who bought them and shipped them all the way to the New World. Saying, "they would have been slaves regardless", is just a way to duck the European responsibility for knowingly creating the trade, and for benefiting from it.

And now you are no longer focused on the problem as much as you are focused at the pointing of fingers. I'm not going to argue who is to blame, as that does not disprove the fact that slavery was and still is a problem in many parts of the world.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't see how we're both wrong. Isn't racism and imperialism about the illusion of power? I was specifically referring to American slavery, which did have an element of racism to it. To say it didn't is just being idiotic. That's all I'm saying. Most southerners support slavery because of bullshit reasons like racism and the fact that blacks were apparently better off in America (Which strangely seems true.) How many blacks own whites?

I think we both agree on the same thing, that american slavery contributed to a period of racial and imperialism, was indeed "about" race and well....power. Though I think I see your point. Maybe they didn't believe in their racist claims, but just wanted to hold power. Hmmm....

I'm saying that it wasn't founded on racism. There was a generation that was born into a society where blacks were treated as second class citizens. So, of course, the belief that whites were a step higher in class was being perpetuated at the time. If it had been other whites who had been enslaved at the time then they would have still upheld the same beliefs that I keep seeing attributed to racism.

I guess I'm just trying to say is that it's absurd that we have so much statistical data that suggests otherwise, but we still have to demonize slavery to the white man believing that they had some sort of birthright privilege versus the black man. That's just retarded. Slavery is a reprehensible concept, indeed, but it is not about racism. A few neanderthals wearing sheets over their heads does not represent the majority.
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All us whie cunts need to get together n kill cunts. I liek Asians n asian food n anime n black rap n shit tho
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sunadajae wrote:

That's the thing. NO. it does not depend on where they live, it does not depend on how educated they are, it does not depend on how much money they have. They account for all of those things in studies over and over again. What they find is that the only impact less money, or less education, or poor locations have is simply to increase an already existing disparity. Regardless of all of those factors, black people on the whole are less likely to get certain things in this country. They are less likely to be treated fairly and more likely to be negatively impacted in nearly every aspect of civil society. And again, I have yet to hear a single way white people as a whole are negatively impacted by black racism.

Racism is indeed a "force". It is invisible, yet it affects even you. Why, why are you trying so hard to ignore the overwhelming evidence of inequality, or to make up reasons for it that aren't race based just because you don't want it to be true? You, because of racism, are unable to accept reality. It makes you uncomfortable. I am a fairly educated person, I am perfectly happy to answer any questions, meet any challenges, yet you seem to want to skim over any and all facts available.

Also, why does "our ancestors built this place" annoy you so much? Is it not at least partially true? Why would that bother you if it is true?


I agree that there's systemic and (relatively) unspoken and partially subconscious prejudice in place that greatly affects black (and other minority) communities, etc.

I think the point you're trying to make becomes warped by others because:

1. You're working against the actual dictionary definition of racism. Until that is changed, or until a more accurate term or word is created I think this may continue to be a point of contention because

2. Many people tend to make arguments personal, present anecdotal evidence, etc. You're offering a big picture argument. "How can white people as a whole be negatively impacted by black racism?" Only in the way white people are perceived by black people, which is actually a result of white against black racism and the poverty, crime, and media coverage that results of this disparity.

However, when a white person gets mugged or shot by a black man screaming about "white people" how do you expect people to perceive this? Once again, you're fighting an uphill battle because of the dictionary definition of racism. If a black man is prejudiced against all white people that is, by simple definition, racism... even if his actions and prejudice are generated from cultural conditioning that's left his family without the needs all human beings require to have a happy life.

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you. A lot needs to change so we can live in a truly equal and free society. I feel like both sides can come to some kind of agreement if we all feel a little more like our voices are being heard and understood by others. In that way, we can all win and walk away feeling empowered instead of feeling angry and frustrated over an argument that didn't go anywhere. Trying to understand where another person is coming from is vital, so finding parts you can agree with or at least see how it can be interpreted from their perspective will help them be more willing to see your side. This is obviously more difficult over the internet, but ya know, it's better than yelling into the wind.
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