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Wikileaks Releases 20,000 DNC Emails: Media And ANTI-Bernie Collaboration, Fake Trump Ads, Paid Forum Posters.
Posted 7/24/16 , edited 7/24/16
Annnnndd more people for Trump...

Posted 7/24/16

neugenx wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:



With all due Respect, those sources aren't very convincing to me.

1. Politifact was shown by George Mason University to be Bias against republicans, is owned by Hillary supporters and basically just focuses on negative comments.

My proof:http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2013/05/28/study-finds-fact-checkers-biased-against-republicans

https://www.quora.com/Politifact-claims-Sanders-lies-more-than-Clinton-How-can-this-possibly-be-true

(It's just not a reliable source for a test of honesty, when all they do is just point out the F Trump got in Math, while he got A"s in the other 8 classes).

2. The next three sources don't having anything to do with Trump as a person in particular and I will explain why. Trump's business model in those terms given based on the sources you gave refer to the franchise model for those who don't know. Basically, it's in Trumps name, but not actually managed by him.

In other words, would the CEO of McDonald's who works in New York be held liable for an illegal action done by a General Manger working in Dallas Texas? This is essentially a little misleading. Although the company as a WHOLE would have to be responsible, for certain, the CEO basically had nothing to do with it. You could get Trump on false advertising, which would make sense considering he is known for his Hyperbole approach to marketing. However, if everything is franchised from his small businesses, to his hotels, it would make perfect sense that Trump wouldn't know the people in charge of Trump University as his own business model would be the same for Trump University.

In other words, Trump has sometimes in the past, gotten bad people into his business, but they were only a small fraction of his entire business enterprise and were always fired. The franchise model is actually a really smart model, because the legal liability is safer. Trump has over thousands of investments and multiple properties, the majority of which are profitable.

http://www.internationalbusinessguide.org/trump-business-career/

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010416/companies-donald-trump-owns.asp

Also, the judge for Trump University, does have a bias against Trump, which is enough to call for a change of venue, at least.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/04/480714972/trump-presses-case-that-mexican-judge-curiel-is-biased-against-him

Who illegally opened up documents he wasn't supposed to.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/281893-judge-in-trump-university-case-reseals-some-documents

Who is a member of La Raza lawyer group, whom's end goal is to turn California into a "Hispanic" State.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/hispanicleaders.asp

We should be more impartial and we all have the right to look at all the evidence, and reevaluate our beliefs.


Sorry, but if it walks like a duck and looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. By his own admission he has admitted to defrauding workers, hiring illegals and lying whenever he felt like it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/10/dozens-lawsuits-accuse-trump-not-paying-his-bills-reports-claim.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-911_us_565b1950e4b08e945feb7326
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-presidential-campaign_us_56acef96e4b0010e80ea4d6e
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-eliot-spitzer-lawsuit-video-2011-4
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/donald-trump-fact-check-trade-immigration-campaign
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/donald-trump-gets-lost-beneath-avalanche-falsehoods
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-lying-rnc-speech-article-1.2719276
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/ap-fact-check-donald-trumps-rnc-speech/
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/01/samuel-l-jackson-claims-he-just-caught-donald-trump-lying-about-golf
http://time.com/4157265/donald-trump-politifact-lie/
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republican-national-convention-2016-fact-checking-speakers/story?id=40684860
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160721/00504135025/donald-trump-threatens-art-deal-ghostwriter-claiming-his-disloyalty-somehow-amounts-to-defamation.shtml

Since you had problems with the sources here are quite a few more well-known sources with pretty much the same information.


If they all have the same information, then those links were pointless. These organizations already are riddled with bias and this post is nothing but confirmation bias.

You need to explain your evidence, otherwise I can do the same thing and dump links, 24/7. It's not actually arguing your point.
Sogno- 
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Posted 7/24/16
what is DNC
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Posted 7/24/16
Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigning is so far the best political news to come out of this election. This calls for a celebration.

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Posted 7/24/16

Sogno- wrote:

what is DNC


Democratic National Convention. A four day practice of telling you why you should vote for the parties nominee.
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Posted 7/24/16

MysticGon wrote:


Sogno- wrote:

what is DNC


Democratic National Convention. A four day practice of telling you why you should vote for the parties nominee.


In this context, DNC would mostly be referring to the Democratic National Committee, which runs the party. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was the head of it.
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Posted 7/24/16

BlueOni wrote:
I will admit, however, that it is very interesting to see a Republican candidate marketing himself as against expanding trade agreements and calling for economic protectionism. Maybe that's what you mean? The cynic in me looks at his own personal business relationship with outsourcing and labour unions and suspect it's just a ploy, so I don't count it, but maybe there's some reason you don't think it's a ploy and do count it?


Yes, that's the biggest stress for me. Candidates changing their promises or not keeping them makes it very difficult to be logical about choosing one to support.

Otherwise, I think those economic policies seem decent. I mean, even the environment is being damaged by the rampant outsourcing to countries with poor pollution control. In the long-term, it's going to improve USA's economy and the world's pollution levels, even if we're probably paying more as consumers in the very short-term.


BlueOni
There's a broader plan here, and I see where he's going with it, so I will be fine with him if he doesn't disavow. But let's be clear: that's a reflection of my confidence in Sanders, not in Clinton or the DNC.


Yeah, I liked Sanders and some of the things he was saying about education policies. I also know he has been fairly consistent about delivering on promises in the past, so I was ready to support him based on that reputation. However, I don't think Clinton is a good substitute. So, if he's out, I don't see myself voting Democrat this time, unless I get any new information.

Which is fine by me. Punishing mistakes, by changing which party we support, is the main power we have.

Also, it's nice to see you have enough time to make a post or two, BlueOni.
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Posted 7/24/16 , edited 7/24/16

Rujikin wrote:

They literally teach you to outsource stuff to other countries be competitive in college. We offer economic incentives to companies that move operations over seas. We prevent companies from bringing money they made over seas back into the USA without double taxing it; if it isn't obvious this causes them to move production/development over seas to use up some of that money so they can have less expenses in the USA.

As a business man he made the right decision based on current laws and economic incentives... However it is horrible long term solution because it hurts buying power in the USA but if you don't compete with people overshoring then you go bankrupt...


Here's where I keep running into a problem, though: Trump doesn't really have an extensive history of advocating for labour rights, improving income equality, building and maintaining good US employment figures, looking out for the impoverished, or any of that. What he does have is a record of fighting against these things, good business sense or not. Given that he's done things like suggest US wages should be lowered to compete with those in countries where people are basically slaves, specifically target and socially engineer poor, desperate people into purchasing fraudulent education packages, outsourced for personal profit (again, good business sense or not), and lied about making donations to veterans' groups only to turn around and start dumping buckets of cash at them when people kept pressing him, I simply cannot in good faith trust anything the man says he's going to do.


Kavalion wrote:

Yes, that's the biggest stress for me. Candidates changing their promises or not keeping them makes it very difficult to be logical about choosing one to support.

Otherwise, I think those economic policies seem decent. I mean, even the environment is being damaged by the rampant outsourcing to countries with poor pollution control. In the long-term, it's going to improve USA's economy and the world's pollution levels, even if we're probably paying more as consumers in the very short-term.


I agree, but just like you're picking up: I don't trust Trump to actually carry through.

I don't inherently oppose politicians conceding on some point or another they made promises about. If it were done for the sake of logrollling today to gain concessions on a more important issue, only to push for the surrendered items at a later date I'd be fine with it. As it is, however, the most common thing seems to be to make a lot of grand promises one never intends to keep at all in the primary and then abandon those promises before the general has even begun. They even have a name for it: the "general election pivot". It's amazing to me just how calmly people say that phrase, because it basically means the candidate knowingly and intentionally lied about their stances.


Yeah, I liked Sanders and some of the things he was saying about education policies. I also know he has been fairly consistent about delivering on promises in the past, so I was ready to support him based on that reputation. However, I don't think Clinton is a good substitute. So, if he's out, I don't see myself voting Democrat this time, unless I get any new information.

Which is fine by me. Punishing mistakes, by changing which party we support, is the main power we have.

Also, it's nice to see you have enough time to make a post or two, BlueOni.


It's ultimately your own decision, and it's not as if Clinton and the DNC haven't ultimately done this to themselves.

It's also nice to see you, too.
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Posted 7/24/16

By honest I meant he speaks from his heart. You don't get many candidates who do that. He is by no means a perfect person I mean who is? But he sure is a hell lot better than Hilary. And link you posted are so bias it's ridiculous. I think saw huffingtonpost in one of your post. Really?
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Posted 7/24/16

PhantomGundam wrote:


MysticGon wrote:


Sogno- wrote:

what is DNC


Democratic National Convention. A four day practice of telling you why you should vote for the parties nominee.


In this context, DNC would mostly be referring to the Democratic National Committee, which runs the party. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was the head of it.


Lol whoops yeah that...

Anyway the news outlets implicated in the email scandal as working with the DNC are Politico, NBC and (surprisingly) Real Clear Politics. :(

The last one was a daily stop for me. Time to boycott... Either come out and say you are biased or get tangled up in that shit. I'm actually kind of pissed about the RCP involvement. I considered the site pretty neutral. Guess not.
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Posted 7/25/16

BlueOni wrote:
I don't inherently oppose politicians conceding on some point or another they made promises about. If it were done for the sake of logrollling today to gain concessions on a more important issue, only to push for the surrendered items at a later date I'd be fine with it. As it is, however, the most common thing seems to be to make a lot of grand promises one never intends to keep at all in the primary and then abandon those promises before the general has even begun. They even have a name for it: the "general election pivot". It's amazing to me just how calmly people say that phrase, because it basically means the candidate knowingly and intentionally lied about their stances.


Sure, they can change their campaign platform as much as they like during re-election. If they change all their stances before that, however, I think it's wise to cycle out the politicians in office at the next election. No reason to give them an incumbent advantage.

It's not even the morality that bothers me. It's a question of convenience. Knowing what I'm voting on could be much simpler. I mean, I'm a young guy trying to read about what these politicians' actual stances are based on all the stuff they did before I was born. We've got better pastimes for our bottle of wine, I think.
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Posted 7/25/16
Ugh... both parties just suck.

Republicans tried to sabotage Trump but then just went along with him when he won.

Democrats successfully sabotage Sanders and are now scrambling now that their stuff got leaked.

And we the people lose, because no politician can be trusted at this point. Except we can trust Trump to keep on with his usual arrogant behavior even if some Republicans don't support him, and we can trust Hillary to keep lying and use everything she can to do as she pleases.

I'd rather vote an anime character at this point.
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Posted 7/25/16

BlueOni wrote:

Given that I understand why people are calling for Sanders to disavow his endorsement of Clinton. Still, I also understand why Sanders' fire wasn't directed toward Hillary Clinton when he issued his statement on this matter and why he hasn't disavowed. He knows that doing so would put the concessions he's drawn out of the Democratic Party and Clinton herself at risk of being withdrawn, and even though there's no way people can be confident that Clinton will keep her word or that the DNC will effect lasting, substantial changes at least they've been forced to put those promises to paper to serve as battle lines for the next set of primaries. He knows that the DNC won't embrace him, that the delegates won't turn around and support him, and that Clinton won't decline the nomination. He knows that if he disavows Clinton at this point he'll basically be handing the election to Trump by splitting the Democratic vote in two. He knows that Trump is lying about his support for progressive ideas and that a Trump administration would damage the cause of progressivism far more than Clinton ever could. There's a broader plan here, and I see where he's going with it, so I will be fine with him if he doesn't disavow. But let's be clear: that's a reflection of my confidence in Sanders, not in Clinton or the DNC.


Pardon me but I pray that your analysis is wrong. Bernie dude has been in the politics for more than 30 years to be this too naive as what you're implying. I admit I am disappointed with the way my dude handle things with the DNC. No anti-TPP. No anti-superdelegates. No balanced Middle East approach and many more. He has a lot of leverage and with these leakages he has a lot more. Given the current situation, I humbly believed he settled for crumbs when he could have at least half of the loaf.

I really do not know what's going on Bernie's mind right now. I would like to hear what he has to say in the DNC convention. If he insists on Hillary, I'll go for Jill Stein. I cannot be persuaded to vote against someone when I know I can have someone to vote for.

#BernieMustDisavow
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Posted 7/25/16 , edited 7/25/16

Jarexx wrote:


By honest I meant he speaks from his heart. You don't get many candidates who do that. He is by no means a perfect person I mean who is? But he sure is a hell lot better than Hilary. And link you posted are so bias it's ridiculous. I think saw huffingtonpost in one of your post. Really?


Good try but if you noticed the second set of links I posted are from ABCNews, Foxnews, CNN, etc. If people are too blind to read/listen to the man's own words admitting his dishonesty then unfortunately they'll never see it. I'm sorry but there's much much more evidence of Trump being dishonest just for the words that have come out of his own mouth than has been proven with Hillary.

Here's another thing to think about with Trump and I'll quote Mark Cuban on this one "The first thing I do is look to hear anything good the people that did business with the man have to say. Did you see any of them speak up for him so far? I sure didn't."

Let's see in his own court deposition he admitted to making deals to pay workers and holding up their promised payments until they offered to accept less payment. Many have actually had to take him to court over it. I wonder just how many didn't get paid, lost their businesses, livelihoods over this? How many suicides were the results of these actions?

Trump U was proven to be one huge Ponzi Scheme. When told by Florida Attorney Generals he reportedly bribed them to drop the suit. Both AGs involved are being. First he lies about about overseeing the whole project himself, then about his ownership in it. He initially claimed "under oath" that he was just a figurehead hired to put a face on the company then he gets outed as 93% owner.

When Judge Curiel was sitting on his case before anything was even decided he launched attacks on him (a sitting Judge who was on his case) and told his "followers" to harass the judge. This is actually a Federal crime. It's called Obstruction of Justice and is a Felony.

He claims to be for the people and bringing jobs over here and yet even his "Make America Great Again" hats are made in other countries.

He claims authorship of his "auto-biographies" only to have the truth come out by the true authors and publisher.

He claims to be against illegals but used MANY of them (read: 1000s) to build his businesses.

He attacks Cruz etc for not honoring their pledges saying he would've when he flat-out told the GOP and the press that if he lost the primaries he'd run third party against his competition. No after the fact he says that he doesn't care if it's legal or not but at their upcoming elections he plans to run Super-PACs against, Cruz, Kasich and an unnamed third male GOP member who is too insignificant to mention. He states that it's not Jeb Bush due to the fact Jeb Bush's political career is dead already.

Here are links 16-20 (links 6-19 are all from well-known sources and can be found in my other 2 posts), link 20 I just included due to it containing over 130 EASILY VERIFIABLE quotes from Trump himself proving his "honesty"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/behind-the-gold-curtain-of-donald-trumps-resume.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430628/donald-trump-business-record-bully
http://billmoyers.com/story/donald-trump-story-youre-not-hearing/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/donald_trump_is_unfit_to_be_president_here_are_141_reasons_why.html

That's the "proof" of Trump's "honesty". As for speaking from the heart...I have yet to see the man even actually has one (ego is another thing altogether).

Posted 7/25/16
None of this surprises me the DNC is twisted in lies
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