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Posted 7/25/16

gornotck wrote:

It's incredible how insane these pie in the sky threads get with just a few people. Sure, if we were all immortal and undying, we could get things done, but would we want to? Going by how all the young people are today, we would just lay down and screw off for a few centuries until someone who was hot to trot started kicking people. Then they'd roll over and go back to doing nothing of any worth except eating, drinking, and poisoning their bodies in every way they can.


Yes we would get things done by those of us who actually want to do something and enjoy it.

A ideal society would be where what you say is possible however Those who help humanity research discoveres etc are rewarded.

If I wasn't forced to study or work and had all the time I would start learning things about AI and psychology and biology.

I would spend easily 30 years studying happily just to help humanity because I enjoy seeing us proceed.

However I have worries like food and bills etc so I can't study all I wish I could and spend my time on discovering stuff I need to work a shitty job just to live.

Two sides to a coin lazy and proactive life as it is now inhibits some discoveries
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Posted 7/25/16

AnimeNOR wrote:

Humanity clearly has the potential and desire for immortality

The most obvious ways are either finding ways to maintain and repair our bodies as they are (finding ways to prevent aging or fixing the problems it causes) or replace the body with something which can be repaired and maintained so that it will potentially last forever though the obvious problem is that you still need to maintain the brain somehow or turn yourself into a machine/program though if that's even possible or desirable is unknown

However I don't think humanity will ever find a way to achieve "true" immortality and become unable to die even if they would want to for whatever reason


When and if humanity achieve immortality (especially if it also removes the need for sustenance) could lead to a golden age of science, art and such given that the whole surviving and getting by in life would theoretically be much less of an issue (it could also go the other way if population keep increasing and thus constantly increasing the need for resources)

Though it could also lead to stagnation because of people being set in their ways and not wanting or being willing to accept change and those people will never die or go away....


People change all the time I have never been set in my ways each year or day I change all the time opinion etc wise I change as the world changes seeing new things recalculating my views etc.

If people can change like I can and not get stuck in their ways we should be fine.

True immortality is most likely out of reach but close is better then far
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Posted 7/25/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


hemicuda2 wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


marlfox570 wrote:

When I refer to immortality, I'm talking about the absence of death entirely. Say a world was created where death was even something that could be comprehended by its people, but pain and the ability to inflict harm still existed. In a way I'm envisioning Immortality like that of "Baccano", but maybe less limb tearing and bodies reforming. How would a Society that comprised of said people live their lives? Would criminals still commits crimes if they knew they could be beaten into a pulp and forced to live for eternity and suffer, much like Yakomaru from "Shin Sekai Yori?" Would there be a class divide among people? Could a government be established in such a world?

Your ideas would be welcome! I am very curious as to what other people think of this.



Criminals would still commit crimes yup and the suffering for eternity would make them more likely to be scared.

There will always be class divides

Governments would still exist


Immortality is likely to happen in the next 40-200 years so we will find out or our children will :P


Interesting subject about how long it'll take for us to be immortal which is very well possible. Seeing the difference from today to 50 years ago one can't even imagine the difference there will be from now to 50 years in the future. I think around 50 years we will be immortal, but you also have to remember that even if it doesn't happen in 50 years lets say 100 years we could still be alive then through other means of extending our lives just how we have done through current medication.

Out of curiosity how do you imagine humans becoming immortal or rather the first way we become immortal?

Tbh i think the easiest, best way and perhaps the only way would be to transfer our selves the content in our brains into a computer a very advanced computer rivaling our brains allowing us to live in cyber worlds, any worlds we desire or even living in robots in our current world. Although i'd much rather live in a computer world seeing how it can be anything you want it to be.

But of course this is just me thinking my dreams with really no scientific evidence other than speculating the rate of advancements in our technology, which could very well be wrong.



"
Out of curiosity how do you imagine humans becoming immortal or rather the first way we become immortal? "

Biological life extension / regeneration of brain tissue mixed with augmentations and moving the brain to a sturdier vessel

Transfering is fine in idea but there is the whole is that still you thing :P


True but i don't see why not. if you were to transfer all the data in your brain which is pretty much a fleshy computer into a computer that works in the same way as the brain, which will then leave your brain empty and now all of who you are is in a new computer, our brain isn't some mystical gift from the gods that can't be tampered with, it is just an advanced fleshy computer.

(yeah i know that response is a bit of a mess but i dont care lol)
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Posted 7/25/16
This thread reminds me of this movie:



I think after a few hundred years, I'd get bored and want to move on to another life.
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Posted 7/25/16 , edited 7/25/16

Bowie-Sensei wrote:

Very dangerous. The only way that progress can occur is for the older generation to step down (and/or die) and let the next generation take over. With immortality, we would not only suffer from overpopulation, but we will be forever ruled by the same groups of oligarchs who amassed money and influence, and since they won't die will never lose power, because let's be honest about this; immortality will be a very exclusive commodity.


agreed, also immortality would take away much of why life is is so valuable.

personally don't see why couldn;t try and increase the human lifespan to 200-300 years but not remove death entirely. i also don't see a problem with augmenting the bodies natural abilities with non biological additions but don't think the idea of replace it with a robotic body is actually that smart of a idea
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Posted 7/26/16

1stladyent wrote:

This thread reminds me of this movie:



I think after a few hundred years, I'd get bored and want to move on to another life.


If I were to say this thread reminds me of something, it's Robert Anson Heinlein's books, specifically the ones dealing with Lazarus Long, where several families who had greatly extended lifespans created through draconian breeding regimens came to the awareness of humanity in general, were persecuted and driven off of the Earth, and when they returned several hundred years later, humanity had discovered through science methods of extending life, originally through replacement of blood with 'young' blood.

This 'young blood' replacement therapy has been found to have some basis in fact, and has caused mice to act like much younger mice at a physical level, including extended lifespans, I believe. They have a contest for longest living mouse.
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Posted 7/26/16 , edited 7/26/16

dragonlord1234 wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:

Very dangerous. The only way that progress can occur is for the older generation to step down (and/or die) and let the next generation take over. With immortality, we would not only suffer from overpopulation, but we will be forever ruled by the same groups of oligarchs who amassed money and influence, and since they won't die will never lose power, because let's be honest about this; immortality will be a very exclusive commodity.


agreed, also immortality would take away much of why life is is so valuable.

personally don't see why couldn;t try and increase the human lifespan to 200-300 years but not remove death entirely. i also don't see a problem with augmenting the bodies natural abilities with non biological additions but don't think the idea of replace it with a robotic body is actually that smart of a idea


"also immortality would take away much of why life is is so valuable. "

Not true imo.

I don't do half of the things i want to do because i don't have enough time to do them in 100 years so why bother starting.

IF anything for people like me living would be more valuable since there is more time of it which allows us to do more things we couldn't before such as dedicating 100 years to one trade then trying the next mastering multiple areas.

" but don't think the idea of replace it with a robotic body is actually that smart of a idea"

Why not? Replacing the vessel that contains our brain and making an improved and more durable vessel using our knowledge in the future is a great idea.

Do you keep your old pc in it's 1990 computer case with it's old graphics card etc?
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Ryulightorb wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:

...... Do you know how one sided this shit is?

This is such a terrible idea unless you are using it for a story, point and case.


Not really its the best outcome for the species.

If we are to stay primitive and mortal as we are now we may aswell just kill ourselves off :P


We will run out of space before we can even consider that outcome. I like to think of a few having this ability, not the billions.

Being mortal is the best part about being human, It is so we can assure that the next generation will become even more advanced. We need death just as much as life.


Then we will all die.

Being mortal is the worst part of being human i'm dedicating my life to help so that the next generation doesn't need to die.

Death is not needed we can advance without creating a new generation.

My life goal is and always will be going fowards in my own way to make sure immortality is possible in my lifetime or the lifetime of those after me.

A few wouldn't have this ability not without a war that would wipe out the human race.



If we cannot advance past mortality are race should just vanish as it doesn't have what it takes.


So you're saying that if the species can't overcome mortality we have no right to exist?
I never met someone who's aversion to death ran as deep as yours.


We don't have an inherent right or not to exist we just do however mortality is something we need to overcome to evolve.

I fear death I hate it to my core ever since I was a small child I would ponder questions of the universe and think about death for hours on end.
I accept it as natural however I do think it's a trial to overcome.

My aversion to death is mostly due to my phobia of death and my life goal of seeing humans transcend their mortality and evolve.

We will exist either way but we will die out a species that is like ours will never make it outside of our galaxy not whilst we are mortal and when the sun burns up well we will go extinct.

I preferably hope for us to expand our species outwards to many different planets.

Small steps but despair lies at the end if you don't take hope :)


I don't understand your fear of death. While I'm not looking forward to death, I don't fear it. Here's the way I look at it:
Either A) I will drift into nothingness like it was before I was born, and if I wasn't afraid of not being born, I have no reason to fear the inevitable return to that state; or I will start a new eternal life, so then I will gain immortality upon death.

This talk of immortality reminds me of a greek story which is quite apt. A man falls in love with a goddess and eventually the gods approve of their marriage, even though they didn't care for him. For the marriage he was allowed one wish, and he wished for immortality, however, after a while he noticed that he was still aging. It got to the point where he could no longer move, but was still alive, so the goddess eventually turned him into a grasshopper and squashed him.

Even if you can gain immortality, would you able to maintain eternal youth?
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Posted 7/26/16
the OP brings up a form of immortality I may not have seen, but I think immortality has to do with the body, how it ages and degrades and the damage done to it. two mangas come to mind one of which I'd think everyone would jump on the chance to get, provided they were looking for immortality: the "anji" in demi human and the abyss feeders from claymore both very different. some Anji think cutting off their heads kills the unique "them" but they grow back their heads anyway, seemingly the only affect of death is losing consciousness, wounds, lost limbs, disease and even tranquillisers are reversed making death a "reset button".
the abyss feeders are like a programmable zombie apocalypse, they endlessly regenerate but they can be killed by decapitation but usually learn to protect their heads, they are however completely mindless and sent to track a target as their only source of food. if immortality was a known phenomenon in humans, would we all want a reset button, see certain individuals used in an ethical grey area, or just all go mad from surviving the agony of some certainly reckless choices, like growing back your arms, because you're cocky enough to keep losing them in machinery?
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Posted 7/26/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


dragonlord1234 wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:

Very dangerous. The only way that progress can occur is for the older generation to step down (and/or die) and let the next generation take over. With immortality, we would not only suffer from overpopulation, but we will be forever ruled by the same groups of oligarchs who amassed money and influence, and since they won't die will never lose power, because let's be honest about this; immortality will be a very exclusive commodity.


agreed, also immortality would take away much of why life is is so valuable.

personally don't see why couldn;t try and increase the human lifespan to 200-300 years but not remove death entirely. i also don't see a problem with augmenting the bodies natural abilities with non biological additions but don't think the idea of replace it with a robotic body is actually that smart of a idea


"also immortality would take away much of why life is is so valuable. "

Not true imo.

I don't do half of the things i want to do because i don't have enough time to do them in 100 years so why bother starting.

IF anything for people like me living would be more valuable since there is more time of it which allows us to do more things we couldn't before such as dedicating 100 years to one trade then trying the next mastering multiple areas.

" but don't think the idea of replace it with a robotic body is actually that smart of a idea"

Why not? Replacing the vessel that contains our brain and making an improved and more durable vessel using our knowledge in the future is a great idea.

Do you keep your old pc in it's 1990 computer case with it's old graphics card etc?


because death gives life its value, without knowing what death is makes it so we don't understand how important life is, also if re never die that means sooner or later life just becomes torture unending.another thing it will cause our societies to go stagnate since the old won't make way for the new.

your can't just replace the body though with a completely artificial mechanical one like many people think, since most of what makes you you requires your biological organs including ones other then the brain, nor can you transfer your brain to another body couldn't even most likely even make a copy. also their many issues of this as well since for example who would be making the artificial bodies, who gets them, and how bad would any glitches be with them and they wouldn't last forever ether. much of the enjoyment of life comes from even simple biological function of eating good food which becomes irrelevant with a robotic body etc. and sure the human body isn't perfect but a robotic body wouldn't be any better ether so basically you entire existence would probably just be more along the line of a regular robot and not you.

also comparing a human to a computer isn't good a comparison ether. since a computer is a computer its just a tool not a living organism like a human.

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dragonlord1234 wrote:


because death gives life its value, without knowing what death is makes it so we don't understand how important life is, also if re never die that means sooner or later life just becomes torture unending.another thing it will cause our societies to go stagnate since the old won't make way for the new.

your can't just replace the body though with a completely artificial mechanical one like many people think, since most of what makes you you requires your biological organs including ones other then the brain, nor can you transfer your brain to another body couldn't even most likely even make a copy. also their many issues of this as well since for example who would be making the artificial bodies, who gets them, and how bad would any glitches be with them and they wouldn't last forever ether. much of the enjoyment of life comes from even simple biological function of eating good food which becomes irrelevant with a robotic body etc. and sure the human body isn't perfect but a robotic body wouldn't be any better ether so basically you entire existence would probably just be more along the line of a regular robot and not you.

also comparing a human to a computer isn't good a comparison ether. since a computer is a computer its just a tool not a living organism like a human.



I Disagree death takes away alot of the value life has it doesn't give value atleast not to me.

The old don't need to make way for the new we can still progress and come up with old ideas and have society change people change personality and beliefs all throughout their lives.

We can replace it with a completely artificial one if we find make replacements for the things we need like a heart its sure they won't be fully mechanical but they will be a mix of machine and biological matter which is GREAT.


"nor can you transfer your brain to another body couldn't even most likely even make a copy." Right now no also you could make a copy if you had full understanding of every part of the brain.

"much of the enjoyment of life comes from even simple biological function of eating good food which becomes irrelevant with a robotic body etc."

I disagree eating food etc is annoying i would gladly get rid of it.

Humans are biological machines we are more alike computers then people give us credit for we are superior but we can be edited and manipulated and built upon.
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Posted 7/26/16

Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:

...... Do you know how one sided this shit is?

This is such a terrible idea unless you are using it for a story, point and case.


Not really its the best outcome for the species.

If we are to stay primitive and mortal as we are now we may aswell just kill ourselves off :P


We will run out of space before we can even consider that outcome. I like to think of a few having this ability, not the billions.

Being mortal is the best part about being human, It is so we can assure that the next generation will become even more advanced. We need death just as much as life.


Then we will all die.

Being mortal is the worst part of being human i'm dedicating my life to help so that the next generation doesn't need to die.

Death is not needed we can advance without creating a new generation.

My life goal is and always will be going fowards in my own way to make sure immortality is possible in my lifetime or the lifetime of those after me.

A few wouldn't have this ability not without a war that would wipe out the human race.



If we cannot advance past mortality are race should just vanish as it doesn't have what it takes.


So you're saying that if the species can't overcome mortality we have no right to exist?
I never met someone who's aversion to death ran as deep as yours.


We don't have an inherent right or not to exist we just do however mortality is something we need to overcome to evolve.

I fear death I hate it to my core ever since I was a small child I would ponder questions of the universe and think about death for hours on end.
I accept it as natural however I do think it's a trial to overcome.

My aversion to death is mostly due to my phobia of death and my life goal of seeing humans transcend their mortality and evolve.

We will exist either way but we will die out a species that is like ours will never make it outside of our galaxy not whilst we are mortal and when the sun burns up well we will go extinct.

I preferably hope for us to expand our species outwards to many different planets.

Small steps but despair lies at the end if you don't take hope :)


I don't understand your fear of death. While I'm not looking forward to death, I don't fear it. Here's the way I look at it:
Either A) I will drift into nothingness like it was before I was born, and if I wasn't afraid of not being born, I have no reason to fear the inevitable return to that state; or I will start a new eternal life, so then I will gain immortality upon death.

This talk of immortality reminds me of a greek story which is quite apt. A man falls in love with a goddess and eventually the gods approve of their marriage, even though they didn't care for him. For the marriage he was allowed one wish, and he wished for immortality, however, after a while he noticed that he was still aging. It got to the point where he could no longer move, but was still alive, so the goddess eventually turned him into a grasshopper and squashed him.

Even if you can gain immortality, would you able to maintain eternal youth?


A: scares me the most.
B: I would rather not start anew.

of course you wouldn't understand fear is something thats hard to understand when you don't have it im not even sure if you can make someone understand it.

Youth could be maintained most likely via technology and genetic manipulation however if not i would rather be a blob just stuck in a cage forever then be dead for me atleast
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Posted 7/27/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:

...... Do you know how one sided this shit is?

This is such a terrible idea unless you are using it for a story, point and case.


Not really its the best outcome for the species.

If we are to stay primitive and mortal as we are now we may aswell just kill ourselves off :P


We will run out of space before we can even consider that outcome. I like to think of a few having this ability, not the billions.

Being mortal is the best part about being human, It is so we can assure that the next generation will become even more advanced. We need death just as much as life.


Then we will all die.

Being mortal is the worst part of being human i'm dedicating my life to help so that the next generation doesn't need to die.

Death is not needed we can advance without creating a new generation.

My life goal is and always will be going fowards in my own way to make sure immortality is possible in my lifetime or the lifetime of those after me.

A few wouldn't have this ability not without a war that would wipe out the human race.



If we cannot advance past mortality are race should just vanish as it doesn't have what it takes.


So you're saying that if the species can't overcome mortality we have no right to exist?
I never met someone who's aversion to death ran as deep as yours.


We don't have an inherent right or not to exist we just do however mortality is something we need to overcome to evolve.

I fear death I hate it to my core ever since I was a small child I would ponder questions of the universe and think about death for hours on end.
I accept it as natural however I do think it's a trial to overcome.

My aversion to death is mostly due to my phobia of death and my life goal of seeing humans transcend their mortality and evolve.

We will exist either way but we will die out a species that is like ours will never make it outside of our galaxy not whilst we are mortal and when the sun burns up well we will go extinct.

I preferably hope for us to expand our species outwards to many different planets.

Small steps but despair lies at the end if you don't take hope :)


I don't understand your fear of death. While I'm not looking forward to death, I don't fear it. Here's the way I look at it:
Either A) I will drift into nothingness like it was before I was born, and if I wasn't afraid of not being born, I have no reason to fear the inevitable return to that state; or I will start a new eternal life, so then I will gain immortality upon death.

This talk of immortality reminds me of a greek story which is quite apt. A man falls in love with a goddess and eventually the gods approve of their marriage, even though they didn't care for him. For the marriage he was allowed one wish, and he wished for immortality, however, after a while he noticed that he was still aging. It got to the point where he could no longer move, but was still alive, so the goddess eventually turned him into a grasshopper and squashed him.

Even if you can gain immortality, would you able to maintain eternal youth?


A: scares me the most.
B: I would rather not start anew.

of course you wouldn't understand fear is something thats hard to understand when you don't have it im not even sure if you can make someone understand it.

Youth could be maintained most likely via technology and genetic manipulation however if not i would rather be a blob just stuck in a cage forever then be dead for me atleast :P


I see no point in continuing as this conversation is becoming circular, and you're using tautological replies to my inquires, which is honestly just wasting both of our times.
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First, there's no damn way a society that still believes in criminals is ever going to establish itself for immortality. Like a perpetual engine, you won't be stopping and no way an idiot that has an ability to manifest matter/anti-matter with your perceptual ability to control yourself. Idiot can't figure it out the real way it works because purposefully, they can't handle it with the weak way in which they perceive themselves and others. Only way to do it is to attain peace and free yourself from the burdens of others, no criminals no police no anyone attempting to influence another; no more societies and the evolution of individuals that are their own superpowers.
Second, to talk about it is to create your own knots to attain it. If talking, must end all doubt and define precisely as in Heisenberg's uncertainty principle can no longer deal with uncertainty to master the awareness it takes to control light and vibrations. Death is still going to be there, just a lot more fun than that which comes with warmongering like humanity has known.
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Posted 7/27/16

Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Bowie-Sensei wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Humms wrote:

...... Do you know how one sided this shit is?

This is such a terrible idea unless you are using it for a story, point and case.


Not really its the best outcome for the species.

If we are to stay primitive and mortal as we are now we may aswell just kill ourselves off :P


We will run out of space before we can even consider that outcome. I like to think of a few having this ability, not the billions.

Being mortal is the best part about being human, It is so we can assure that the next generation will become even more advanced. We need death just as much as life.


Then we will all die.

Being mortal is the worst part of being human i'm dedicating my life to help so that the next generation doesn't need to die.

Death is not needed we can advance without creating a new generation.

My life goal is and always will be going fowards in my own way to make sure immortality is possible in my lifetime or the lifetime of those after me.

A few wouldn't have this ability not without a war that would wipe out the human race.



If we cannot advance past mortality are race should just vanish as it doesn't have what it takes.


So you're saying that if the species can't overcome mortality we have no right to exist?
I never met someone who's aversion to death ran as deep as yours.


We don't have an inherent right or not to exist we just do however mortality is something we need to overcome to evolve.

I fear death I hate it to my core ever since I was a small child I would ponder questions of the universe and think about death for hours on end.
I accept it as natural however I do think it's a trial to overcome.

My aversion to death is mostly due to my phobia of death and my life goal of seeing humans transcend their mortality and evolve.

We will exist either way but we will die out a species that is like ours will never make it outside of our galaxy not whilst we are mortal and when the sun burns up well we will go extinct.

I preferably hope for us to expand our species outwards to many different planets.

Small steps but despair lies at the end if you don't take hope :)


I don't understand your fear of death. While I'm not looking forward to death, I don't fear it. Here's the way I look at it:
Either A) I will drift into nothingness like it was before I was born, and if I wasn't afraid of not being born, I have no reason to fear the inevitable return to that state; or I will start a new eternal life, so then I will gain immortality upon death.

This talk of immortality reminds me of a greek story which is quite apt. A man falls in love with a goddess and eventually the gods approve of their marriage, even though they didn't care for him. For the marriage he was allowed one wish, and he wished for immortality, however, after a while he noticed that he was still aging. It got to the point where he could no longer move, but was still alive, so the goddess eventually turned him into a grasshopper and squashed him.

Even if you can gain immortality, would you able to maintain eternal youth?


A: scares me the most.
B: I would rather not start anew.

of course you wouldn't understand fear is something thats hard to understand when you don't have it im not even sure if you can make someone understand it.

Youth could be maintained most likely via technology and genetic manipulation however if not i would rather be a blob just stuck in a cage forever then be dead for me atleast :P


I see no point in continuing as this conversation is becoming circular, and you're using tautological replies to my inquires, which is honestly just wasting both of our times.


Pointing out facts and opinions is tautological TIL
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