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Post Reply About all of the bull in the media on immigration
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Posted 8/29/16 , edited 8/29/16

Southern55 wrote:


thatgirl202 wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:


So, no, I don't think immigration, as it currently is, is a good thing. In the US, I would like to see more use of the H2B visas, with it being mandatory that all employees are returned to their countries at the end of their contract and all children born in the US revert to their parent's citizenship and are not eligible for US citizenship or any benefits.

.


If you want this, then the only ones who would have a right to live in USA are the native americans. You are from the place you were born in. If someone is born in USA, they are US citizens. You can't deny those rights to those children. Are your ancestors 100% native Americans? if not, it is a little bit hypocritical of you to want to strip children who are born in USA of their rights while you and your family can live in USA perfectly fine.



This argument is always enjoyable to see... The USA is not a patch of land, it is a man made, designated area, governed by a specific government referred to as The United States of America. To say only Native Americans would belong here is dumb, they weren't originally from America either. And following this logic (along the slippery slope it is) all Humans should live in Africa and nowhere else on Earth. Europeans forcefully took the land from the Native Americans, they are no longer recognized as having any right to claim ownership of the land by the international community. With the exception of the reservations they still own.


Funny how you never mentioned anything that person said about the children.

You didn't even understand my point, what she said is stupid, and I responded with a similar stupid response to make her see her stupidity. You can't and shouldn't revert the citizenship rights of the children who are born in USA to their parents' citizenship. By that logic , we all should be africans, like you said.

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Posted 8/29/16
So you work for USCIS and the US SSA? I highly doubt it.
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Posted 8/29/16

Akage-chan wrote:

Goodman, the problem with your argument is that you're assuming that immigrants are going to continue to perform the same menial jobs, such as picking produce, for the rest of their lives. They don't. Once they get legal status, they look for better paying jobs, and those are typically the jobs that everyone else wants as well. If immigrants were to come to a country and do the same menial jobs that they were originally doing, then, there wouldn't be an issue as they'd fill and continue to fill the jobs these countries need filled. But, they don't, and so, it's a never ending problem of continuing to import more labor because that labor force is continually in flux.

So, no, I don't think immigration, as it currently is, is a good thing. In the US, I would like to see more use of the H2B visas, with it being mandatory that all employees are returned to their countries at the end of their contract and all children born in the US revert to their parent's citizenship and are not eligible for US citizenship or any benefits.

I deal with the US immigration system on a daily basis and it is a highly ineffective and abused system. If the American public were only aware of how people come to the US and head down to Social Security the next day to claim (and receive) benefits from a system to which they never paid into, I think there would be a lot more outrage than there is now.


So you work for USCIS and the US SSA? I highly doubt it. No one born in the US regardless of their parents status should be stripped of their citizenship! Also why would anyone want to work the same job for the rest of their life's? All humans want the best for themselves and their families so no doubt they would look for better jobs, and if they do get better jobs it's because they deserve them. You have a one sided view of the immigration problems in America, I think it would do you some good to be open minded and put yourself in someone else's shoes.
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Posted 8/30/16
Immigration in numbers that are so large that the newest arrivals do not assimilate fast enough is never a good thing.
Part of America's success story is how quickly people assimilate into the culture and most of the immigrants I know are more pro-Americans than a lot of the native born people since many came from lands with no opportunities for those who were not born rich.
I think its a tough sell to say Europe's recent waive of unrestricted immigration is not a security issue, not to mention a drastic spike does not give public services and government time to adequately plan for the new arrivals. (new housing to stabilize prices, language courses, new schools, hospitals, etc.).
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Posted 8/30/16 , edited 8/30/16

oso_MOB wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:

Goodman, the problem with your argument is that you're assuming that immigrants are going to continue to perform the same menial jobs, such as picking produce, for the rest of their lives. They don't. Once they get legal status, they look for better paying jobs, and those are typically the jobs that everyone else wants as well. If immigrants were to come to a country and do the same menial jobs that they were originally doing, then, there wouldn't be an issue as they'd fill and continue to fill the jobs these countries need filled. But, they don't, and so, it's a never ending problem of continuing to import more labor because that labor force is continually in flux.

So, no, I don't think immigration, as it currently is, is a good thing. In the US, I would like to see more use of the H2B visas, with it being mandatory that all employees are returned to their countries at the end of their contract and all children born in the US revert to their parent's citizenship and are not eligible for US citizenship or any benefits.

I deal with the US immigration system on a daily basis and it is a highly ineffective and abused system. If the American public were only aware of how people come to the US and head down to Social Security the next day to claim (and receive) benefits from a system to which they never paid into, I think there would be a lot more outrage than there is now.


So you work for USCIS and the US SSA? I highly doubt it. No one born in the US regardless of their parents status should be stripped of their citizenship! Also why would anyone want to work the same job for the rest of their life's? All humans want the best for themselves and their families so no doubt they would look for better jobs, and if they do get better jobs it's because they deserve them. You have a one sided view of the immigration problems in America, I think it would do you some good to be open minded and put yourself in someone else's shoes.


Those types of work visas can sometimes be modern day work slavery. You work for crap wages compared to the locals, get exploited and if you complain you're deported. I think it would make far more sense to replace those visas with a skills based point system like Canada has so that we can choose the best people who would be the biggest assets for job growth and expansion of our economy.
You can increase and decrease points for skills based on job shortage (or lack their of) as not to damage native's work opportunities while at the same time not leaving jobs unfilled.
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Posted 8/30/16

oso_MOB wrote:

So you work for USCIS and the US SSA? I highly doubt it. No one born in the US regardless of their parents status should be stripped of their citizenship! Also why would anyone want to work the same job for the rest of their life's? All humans want the best for themselves and their families so no doubt they would look for better jobs, and if they do get better jobs it's because they deserve them. You have a one sided view of the immigration problems in America, I think it would do you some good to be open minded and put yourself in someone else's shoes.


Doesn't really matter which agency I work for and I won't say. I really don't give a crap about the rights of the "poor immigrants" unless they actually made a solid attempt at trying to change their country for the benefit of all. Stay in your country and fight for your rights there. No one gave my forefathers anything. The British didn't happily give America land. Nor were all those who arrived in the US during the 1800s and early 1900s given anything. You had to pay to take English classes. There was no welfare. So no, excuse me if I have 0 sympathy for those that came to the US illegally and expect to have everything handed to them when my ancestors received nothing.

The problem is that by allowing so many people from third world countries into first world countries is that you're just perpetuating the cycle. You're giving people an easy out. Instead of forcing them to stay and concentrate their energy into trying to fix their problems, you're giving them the option to leave and take whatever knowledge that hey have with them. This creates a brain drain and further perpetuates the problem.
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Posted 8/31/16 , edited 8/31/16
I believe in free immigration everywhere. Let people come, let people go. People complain that folks who immigrate won't understand native customs or the native language, but that is what schools are for. The shame is that people have to pay criminals to get them from one place to another, and risk their lives doing it. I am from the U.S. but the example stands for Europe as well. People risk their lives trying to cross the Mediterranean to get to southern European countries such as Italy, just as they pay cartels to transport them across the Mexican border. How many people have to die before we will learn to accept each others differences? "Muslims" are fleeing war-torn lands to look for somewhere peaceful to reside. Why should they have to live in fear?

In the U.S. we have undergone many stages of immigration. The vast majority of people here do not have native ancestry. I am about 5% Native American. The rest is English, Scottish, and Greek. My English ancestors rode into this land with metal and gunpowder and murdered my Native American Ancestors by the millions. My Greek and Scottish ancestors came far later. They were shunned by the English, who called themselves "natives". Many others were cast aside when they first arrived. Irish had a 50% chance of surviving in their first year off the boat, and were victims of vast racism. I haven't met someone racist against Irish in my lifetime but this happened only a hundred years ago. A hundred years from now, Latin Americans will be as normal.

People despise immigration because they are afraid. They are afraid what they have will be taken by these new peoples. As if it is that easy for someone entirely new to a land to accomplish the feat of taking it. These people have to earn their wealth, just as native people have earned theirs, or perhaps, if they are lucky, as their familial ancestors earned it for them. They are looking for a place where there is opportunity, for them, for their children. Even if it means having to waste away for years working at gas stations or fast food chains, working as maids or nannies, there is a chance they will find success for themselves and their families. At the very least, they can earn a safe roof over their heads and food on their tables. Here in the U.S. we are fueling the wealth of criminal syndicates such as the Mexican Cartels just by denying immigrants. Instead, these people have no way out. They spend years packaging cocaine just to get a chance to hop the border and are just as likely to die as they are to get across.

Fear brings out the worst in people. We murder because of it, turn a blind eye to those being murdered, enslaved, trafficked. We hate because of it. Hate those who we do not know or understand. Do not fear, but accept your fellows. Do not think that you have some grand claim or birthright to the land in which you live, for it has traded hands as many times as a U.S. dollar. You, who live in this ignorance are the one who feeds this atrocity. You, who does nothing are as guilty as those who are killing. You, without sympathy, are a scourge upon this world. We are all people, one being, human beings, born with emotion, born with love, sadness, trial and tribulation. This is regardless of where you are born or where you end up. Do not feed the monster, but open your arms, open your mind, open your heart.
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Posted 9/3/16

NLCRichardRahl wrote:

I believe in free immigration everywhere. Let people come, let people go. People complain that folks who immigrate won't understand native customs or the native language, but that is what schools are for. The shame is that people have to pay criminals to get them from one place to another, and risk their lives doing it. I am from the U.S. but the example stands for Europe as well. People risk their lives trying to cross the Mediterranean to get to southern European countries such as Italy, just as they pay cartels to transport them across the Mexican border. How many people have to die before we will learn to accept each others differences? "Muslims" are fleeing war-torn lands to look for somewhere peaceful to reside. Why should they have to live in fear?

In the U.S. we have undergone many stages of immigration. The vast majority of people here do not have native ancestry. I am about 5% Native American. The rest is English, Scottish, and Greek. My English ancestors rode into this land with metal and gunpowder and murdered my Native American Ancestors by the millions. My Greek and Scottish ancestors came far later. They were shunned by the English, who called themselves "natives". Many others were cast aside when they first arrived. Irish had a 50% chance of surviving in their first year off the boat, and were victims of vast racism. I haven't met someone racist against Irish in my lifetime but this happened only a hundred years ago. A hundred years from now, Latin Americans will be as normal.

People despise immigration because they are afraid. They are afraid what they have will be taken by these new peoples. As if it is that easy for someone entirely new to a land to accomplish the feat of taking it. These people have to earn their wealth, just as native people have earned theirs, or perhaps, if they are lucky, as their familial ancestors earned it for them. They are looking for a place where there is opportunity, for them, for their children. Even if it means having to waste away for years working at gas stations or fast food chains, working as maids or nannies, there is a chance they will find success for themselves and their families. At the very least, they can earn a safe roof over their heads and food on their tables. Here in the U.S. we are fueling the wealth of criminal syndicates such as the Mexican Cartels just by denying immigrants. Instead, these people have no way out. They spend years packaging cocaine just to get a chance to hop the border and are just as likely to die as they are to get across.

Fear brings out the worst in people. We murder because of it, turn a blind eye to those being murdered, enslaved, trafficked. We hate because of it. Hate those who we do not know or understand. Do not fear, but accept your fellows. Do not think that you have some grand claim or birthright to the land in which you live, for it has traded hands as many times as a U.S. dollar. You, who live in this ignorance are the one who feeds this atrocity. You, who does nothing are as guilty as those who are killing. You, without sympathy, are a scourge upon this world. We are all people, one being, human beings, born with emotion, born with love, sadness, trial and tribulation. This is regardless of where you are born or where you end up. Do not feed the monster, but open your arms, open your mind, open your heart.


Free immigration has been a mess in parts of Europe. I'd say that larger amounts of immigration works better when the immigrants are from a diverse set of countries and cultures so to not create large amount of ethnic enclaves and division between various groups.

True it sucks that people have to resort to smuggling, but at the same time our Southern neighbors are using American taxpayers as their social services slush fund. The rich in their countries refuse to pay their fair share of taxes and therefore force the poor in their nation-states to emigrate due to lack of opportunity and desperation. Until people rise up against their ruling class and fight back against the elite who enjoy their wage slave labor nothing will change. Keep in mind, the working class in the US was also treated like absolute garbage until the FDR era labor reforms took affect. Before then child labor, crazy long work days, dangerous work environments and no support system (Medicaid, social security, etc.) didn't exist. It can be done in Latin America if people start organizing.

As for the Middle Eastern people, sure most are good people trying to escape a bad situation, but open immigration would be a nightmare. Would we not want to background check these people. There are some in the region who are radicals, whether that means they support terrorism or treating women worse than animals, those types of people would obviously negative affect our society.

Sure, the newest arrivals (groups) are always treated with suspicion, this is nothing new and was the same when my family came here.

Your point about people being afraid, well quite frankly sometimes it is justified. Back when my ancestors came to the states (late 1800s) and i'd imagine yours came around the same time their was a plethora of unfilled unskilled labor positions that needed to be filled. Due to automation and globalization, this is no longer the case. Except in industries like agriculture and perhaps some domestic work many of the new arrivals are in direct competition with unskilled Americans desperate for any job. Call me a nativist, I really don't care, but I think we have an obligation to give priority to the needs of those already here.

The elephant in the room is the lack of decent paying jobs. While the Obama administration paints an economy full of sunshine and rainbows, the reality is that while the stock market recovered, the blue collared jobs market never did. This in turn caused many of these former factory workers go from making a living wage of $18-22/hr to part time, no benefit $8-10/hr. poverty wages at places like Walmart out of desperation. Open immigration would kick these already downed workers and take them from their current crappy job prospects to the unemployment line, which in turn would cause them depression, an even greater decreased standard of living, and requires the rest of us to pay more in taxes to support the additional unemployed workers.


I'm sick and tired of the bleeding hearts telling us to open our borders when none of these nations who are sending a majority of the immigrants are doing next to nothing to improve the lives of those outside of their elite. If we are to have open borders with a country it should be done on a bilateral basis, negotiated so that if we give them access to living and working in our lands, that we have the same right in theirs as it is only fair.

I understand where you are coming from, but the reality is nothing comes free and even good intentions bring their unwanted consequences. I'd agree with you that immigration has been great for our country, but we never had numbers to such a point that negatively affected assimilation of new arrivals. I highly doubt the American success story of assimilating new arrivals would continue for long if our immigration levels increased 10 fold overnight. It might not be politically correct to say this, but from what I've seen traveling abroad a majority of the world is an awful place to live if you aren't born rich. While I feel bad for those trapped in that situation, our country would collapse by the plethora of people who would come here in a heartbeat it would be unsustainable, both financially and in a cultural sense.

The solution to this problem is not making the "relief valve" (i.e. first world countries as a place to escape to) larger since that allows the corruption and discrimination that takes place in the developing world to continue. The solution is to rather empower workers and citizens across national borders to fight back against the elite and multinational corporations who are pursuing a race to the bottom mentality where people make less and less money and are basically are left out from being a full member of society.
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Posted 9/3/16 , edited 9/3/16
please go look up the rapings and molestations of hundreds of women by a mob of "refugees" on new years eve in Germany

please
Norway is now sending them back
the german citizens want them to go back,and other countries are closing their borders to them

im not saying all are bad but like another person said, when you have -any- group of ppl in high numbers , shit is going to get bad, and muslims see women as less than dogs ssooo


on a side note American muslims are a little different because they are AMERICAN muslims, they are more civil, not like the ones coming directly from the problem country
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Posted 9/3/16 , edited 9/3/16

goodman528 wrote:

The recent wave of Muslim immigration into Europe has been blown out of proportion by the media. Importing young people into a country is good for the economy. These immigrants will keep the European economy growing in the next few decades. I don't know if you ever had any exposure to the working class sectors of the economy of Europe, but let me tell you, strawberries don't pick themselves, they are picked by immigrants. Bars, clubs, pubs, etc don't clean themselves, they are cleaned by immigrants. Construction work, also mostly done by immigrants.


There is a lot of bullshit in the media about immigrants claiming benefits in EU and in UK. I can tell you, lots of my high school friends who were native to this country can get around $600 of benefits per person + heavily subsidized housing + free education and training + free everything for their kids (school meals, books, grants to go to university, etc, etc). For them, it is actually irrational to get a min wage job ($1200 per month after tax) because they will loose out on a LOT of welfare benefits. In comparison, for an immigrant to apply for a 2 year visa here, it costs $1000 + supporting documentation from your employer + bank statements to show you can support yourself for at least two years without state help. These immigrants then pay the same taxes and national insurance as everybody else, but are forbidden to claim a lot of welfare benefits available to the natives. I don't know exactly which benefits, because I have met lots of both legal and illegal immigrants in the UK, but I don't know of any of them using any state services other than the NHS.


Now, as for the USA. Has any of you ever tried to apply for a US visa with work permit? Because it is not easy. I know of a couple highly educated and talented people who got jobs in the USA and failed the visa process. One of them went for a phd in an ivy league university (full scholarship) instead, as a way in. The other one thought forget it, and went for a highly paid job here instead. The way I see it, USA is loosing out. I mean what made USA the best country in the world was because of USA's ability to attract the most amazing people from all around the world to come to the US and give them citizenship. Now, the US immigration process is just a bureaucratic nightmare, especially compared to more enlightened countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada.


Lastly, the Muslims. I am a fourth generation atheist, so from my point of view, all of you religious people are literally crazy. But I am used it, people kneeling and talking to their imaginary friend, people passing judgement on others based an incoherent book written in the bronze age, people 'donating' money to organizations which are many orders of magnitude more wealthy than themselves, etc, etc. It's OK, everybody's a little crazy sometimes, no big deal. As for the terrorism and rape and "crime wave". Let's look at it from my atheist point of view, OK? There are lots of crazy people in the world, so no doubt a few of them will commit absurd acts of violence. Catholics fiddle kids. Muslims rape women and do suicide bombings. And protestants, like Tony Blair, decided to spend billions to invade and bomb countries half way across the world despite the mass popular demonstrations right here in London, because in his own words, God told him to do it. And on this subject of Tony Blair, he preferred to spend the money on war instead of schools, because he also had the "bright" idea of selling state schools to private sponsors, like fellow Christian Peter Vardy, who then decided to not only adopt creationist texbooks but also adopt daily prayers and weekly prayer assemblies in these state schools. So in summary, crazy doesn't make you a bad person, and being a bad person is certainly not limited to any particular brand of craziness.


The media has repeatedly underrepresented the problems caused by the Merkle imposed mass immigration policy. You're only see coat tails of the problems that have been happening appear on the news because countries that had previously capitulated are now saying they've had enough.

And this little sample of what you're seeing is "too much"?

Please, someone, this millennial needs a rock provided for them to climb under. They're having trouble denying reality because a minuscule fraction of the negative stories about mass immigration in Europe have made it into the mainstream media.
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Posted 9/3/16 , edited 9/3/16

redokami wrote:

please go look up the rapings and molestations of hundreds of women by a mob of "refugees" on new years eve in Germany

please
Norway is now sending them back
the german citizens want them to go back,and other countries are closing their borders to them

im not saying all are bad but like another person said, when you have -any- group of ppl in high numbers , shit is going to get bad, and muslims see women as less than dogs ssooo


on a side note American muslims are a little different because they are AMERICAN muslims, they are more civil, not like the ones coming directly from the problem country


I think it has more to do with that immigrants from that region we accepted for residency were screened and went through the process. Europe on the other hand has no (realistic) control over its external borders and basically anyone who wanted to get in did without being screened.
Posted 9/4/16

redokami wrote:

Norway is now sending them back


Norway is sending who back? You might have to be a bit more specific so as to not create misunderstanding. Is Norway supposed to send back my Iranian hair dresser who has a permit to stay because somebody else was accused of rape elsewhere?
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Posted 9/4/16
Lmao you're wrong: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?pageId=118023207321182853066&mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs
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Posted 9/4/16 , edited 9/4/16
All the bull in the media on immigration is coming from people like you saying it's not an issue in Europe. It is. Europe is fucked right now, literally and figuratively. That map is showing refugee crimes ONLY in Germany and it's lit up like a christmas tree. What more evidence do you need?
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