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What is the point in shaming, ridicule, ànd stigma?
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Hoosierville
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Posted 8/6/16
We shame murders and rapists to help discourage such things. Its to prevent unwanted behavior.
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Posted 8/6/16 , edited 8/6/16

dark_paradox_21 wrote:
For example, one of the things I love about Japan is that most people don't behave properly because they fear hell


Lord Enma begs to differ.

(And like the saying goes, nobody believes in hell more than an atheist, in his firm belief that everyone ELSE does... )
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Posted 8/6/16
Its an evolutionary response. It is designed to discourage the horde from engaging in unnecessarily risky behaviors.

Common example would be fat shaming. There are a number of medical reasons not to be fat. Consequently, people shame them.
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Posted 8/6/16 , edited 8/6/16

johnsilver242 wrote:

Its an evolutionary response. It is designed to discourage the horde from engaging in unnecessarily risky behaviors.

Common example would be fat shaming. There are a number of medical reasons not to be fat. Consequently, people shame them.


But mostly because it's perceived as the physical result of laziness, self-indulgence, over-indulgence, self-neglect, etc.

Usually a public behavior that's shamed--like obnoxiousness, entitlement, bad parenting, a criminal who was caught, etc.--is one that's too selfish and not in the interest of other people--And if your parents around as an adult to caution you about the importance of Doing Unto Others, said Others will be happy to serve that surrogate-parent role for them, and remind you why you should try to live for the greater good.
And you may end up preferring your parent's censure instead, as the rest of us have no familial obligation to be polite about it.
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19 / F / Earth
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Posted 8/6/16
It's just a part of human nature. People naturally dislike the things that are different from them or their ideals.
Stupid BS in my opinion, but that's probably the reason it still exists.
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48 / M / New England, USA
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Posted 8/6/16
It depends:
- Shaming for shaming's sake is usually a sign of bullying/verbal abuse and should never be tolerated.
- Shaming a friend who is out of line is sometimes to show the friend you know he can be better than he/she thinks he is. It's usually an act of love.
- Shaming a thug/bully is good to strip them of their bullying power/ego/followers. It's usually an act of defense/an equalizer.
Posted 8/8/16 , edited 8/8/16

neugenx wrote:

It depends:
- Shaming for shaming's sake is usually a sign of bullying/verbal abuse and should never be tolerated.
- Shaming a friend who is out of line is sometimes to show the friend you know he can be better than he/she thinks he is. It's usually an act of love.
- Shaming a thug/bully is good to strip them of their bullying power/ego/followers. It's usually an act of defense/an equalizer.


Shaming is as much negative as positive; it also is an enabler and a catalyst for more negativity, and can cause suicidal ideation. No one has the right to judge someone who hasn't walked a mile in their shoes. :C
Posted 8/8/16 , edited 8/8/16

Ejanss wrote:


VerdantHills wrote:

Just answer the question.


Just ASK a freakin' question, that's longer than four words, and maybe might have your own opinion in it, to liven things up!

But to address the header, it's just the Matt Murdock in us: With the fame and SJW cultures at the mercy of a fair justice system, impartial press, and plenty of media spin-doctoring and cries of "persecution" backlash, we tend to hope that some people find justice before justice finds them.

For ex., OJ may have been "innocent" but it didn't help his career, Paul Feig's cries of "sexist haters" didn't help Ghostbusters' box office, and even if convention votes couldn't stop Donald Trump, the Khan comments could.
There is no second appeal in the Court of Public Opinion.


I did ask, in the title, fyi. :C



dark_paradox_21 wrote:

Shaming and ridiculing people can be taken to extremes, but it is often a necessary part of the developmental process. There are stigmas and taboos against certain behaviors for reasons as well.

Let's take the example of incest. There is definitely a taboo and a stigma against incest. In reality, such behavior can result in diseased children via birth defects, reduced intelligence after a couple of generations, and the death of bloodlines. In order to prevent such behavior, those who take part in that behavior are ridiculed and shamed. This might change the mind of those participating in the deed, but to a greater extend dissuades others from attempting it.

Now incest is an extreme example. How about fat shaming? How about taunting those who do not participate in age-appropriate behavior (for example, a teenager still playing cowboys-and-indians)? Enforcing these social norms is not mere luxury, but necessary to the development of a functioning adult. Maybe the person SHOULD lose weight for health reasons. Maybe the shut-in SHOULD play outside and make friends for better mental health. Maybe the person SHOULD get a job that pays the bills rather than chasing foolish dreams. Maybe a person SHOULD NOT alienate others with outlandish behavior if they wish to advance in life.

And I see several posts here which mention "positive methods" and "I wish we didn't do things like this." but that is the wrong attitude. SHAME is a powerful motivator. It can at times be the most powerful motivator. Armies have known this for thousands of years and have used it to develop soldiers. Coaches use it to develop Olympic athletes. Parents use shame to teach children manners. Shame makes people decent human beings. Rapists feel no shame. Thieves have no shame. Child molesters feel no shame. Most criminals perform their deeds without a feeling of guilt that would stop a reasonable person because they have justified their actions to themselves.

And in modern times, when the world has become increasingly atheistic and no longer has a perceived external moral code, SHAME is the one thing that keeps people from being complete dicks to one another. For example, one of the things I love about Japan is that most people don't behave properly because they fear hell - they behave properly because they are proud and would be ashamed of wrongdoing as being beneath them. By contrast, American children are often brought up with boogie men and religious teachings only to abandon those beliefs in adulthood and become selfish dickheads who cannot even use their blinkers in traffic because they are shamelessly at the center of their own world.

Those who proudly boast that, "shaming and ridiculing others is wrong" are either fools or are attempting to get away with something. It is important to ask why a social norm exists and to what extent it is worth enforcing (because some rules are archaic and some methods are too extreme). However, it is arrogance and self-righteousness - not kindness or wisdom - that denies shame's place in social development. Shame and ridicule are absolutely necessary for the development of healthy adults and for the smooth operation of society.


I agree its not right or wrong ,It is just as frequently a negative influence as a positive one, esp considering no one really knows a person until you walked a mile in their shoes. For instance, there's no coming back from it beyond a certain threshold. do it to a person depressed enough and youre partly to blame for their death

understand that while you might not care less, i might not care either, .the commonest mistake ive seen is the buddy thing, a misconception i want followers when i dont , i do not or i wouldnt reject them. the only one is bc of a guest pass and my way of saying thanks. either way i dont give a shit what anyone has to say now. *shrugs*
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21 / F / USA
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Posted 8/8/16 , edited 8/8/16
To make that nonconforming individualist to get with the program and become a mindless consumer like the rest of the masses.
Posted 8/8/16

Ravenstein wrote:

To make that nonconforming individualist to get with the program and become an emotionless consumer like the rest of the masses.


Wont work to a true believer. trust me i know, from experience in trying to help others, as well as my own personal experiences with it..
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48 / M / New England, USA
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Posted 8/8/16

VerdantHills wrote:


neugenx wrote:

It depends:
- Shaming for shaming's sake is usually a sign of bullying/verbal abuse and should never be tolerated.
- Shaming a friend who is out of line is sometimes to show the friend you know he can be better than he/she thinks he is. It's usually an act of love.
- Shaming a thug/bully is good to strip them of their bullying power/ego/followers. It's usually an act of defense/an equalizer.


Shaming is as much negative as positive; it also is an enabler and a catalyst for more negativity, and can cause suicidal ideation. No one has the right to judge someone who hasn't walked a mile in their shoes. :C


I never said otherwise, I totally agree with you. It can be both. In the examples above I was just pointing out a few possibilities. I, myself, shamed a friend who was cheating on his wife to give up his cheating ways and I once shamed a bully who was beating up on kids smaller than him in a crowded school auditorium (not on a microphone or anything). When you see a little kid being pushed around/beaten up by a group of punks you need to stand up and when you know you'll get beaten as well shaming can be the ONLY thing to even the odds and sometimes makes one of them rethink what he's doing and walk away.

Bullies/cliques shaming individual students is not a defense, it's verbal abuse and should NEVER be tolerated..
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17 / F / USA
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Posted 8/10/16
To feed a pride the shamer has
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26 / M / Your friendly nei...
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Posted 8/10/16
Because Spider-Man wills it so.
Posted 8/10/16 , edited 8/10/16
Control, competition for hierarchy, aka "dick measuring", a need to inflict pain on others, many things..
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24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 8/10/16
Ostracism is a part of human nature, ingrained as a component of tribalism. There is no "point." It's simply instinctual.
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