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Post Reply Obamacare? What is it?
20927 cr points
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 8/7/16

Rujikin wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

If I paid for Obamacare I'd be living in the poor house. I just go without insurance. So now I still have no healthcare and the government is trying to punish me for not getting it. I've only been hurt with Obamacare. It's HORRIBLE and needs repealed.


That's stupid you should get healthcare access to free healthcare is a human right in the first world.



Nothing is free. Everything is paid for. I just want it to return to how it was in the 50's or 60's when you could walk into a doctors office with a broken leg, have them do all of their procedures for it, and give them $200 cash. Now they make the price $3000 because insurance will negotiate it down to $500 then the doctors have to pay for tons of support staff just to deal with that insurance plus have on call lawyers for when insurance companies try to sue you to dispute how much they have to pay in court.


Of course taxes play a part.

That sounds horrible lucky in my country we don't do that our visits are paid by taxes which are fairly laid out based on how much a person earns.

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Posted 8/7/16

Ryulightorb wrote:

Of course taxes play a part.

That sounds horrible lucky in my country we don't do that our visits are paid by taxes which are fairly laid out based on how much a person earns.

The system works well in Germany and other European countries is because it accommodates based on each individual's need.
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Hoosierville
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Posted 8/7/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

If I paid for Obamacare I'd be living in the poor house. I just go without insurance. So now I still have no healthcare and the government is trying to punish me for not getting it. I've only been hurt with Obamacare. It's HORRIBLE and needs repealed.


That's stupid you should get healthcare access to free healthcare is a human right in the first world.



Nothing is free. Everything is paid for. I just want it to return to how it was in the 50's or 60's when you could walk into a doctors office with a broken leg, have them do all of their procedures for it, and give them $200 cash. Now they make the price $3000 because insurance will negotiate it down to $500 then the doctors have to pay for tons of support staff just to deal with that insurance plus have on call lawyers for when insurance companies try to sue you to dispute how much they have to pay in court.


Of course taxes play a part.

That sounds horrible lucky in my country we don't do that our visits are paid by taxes which are fairly laid out based on how much a person earns.



The thing I hate about free healthcare is that it is quite unfair. I eat well, buy quality food that costs a little more, and exercise near daily so I am in great shape and I haven't even needed to go to the doctor for 3-4 years. Then you have some megaton fatass that eats nothing but fatty and greasy food that weighs 500 lbs, never exercises, and has pages worth of diseases all related to their weight and/or smoking.

I need very little medical care while this fatass needs more healthcare than 10 people in moderate shape. Because of megaton, and many others, the cost of free medical insurance will rise because free healthcare will tax everyone equally not considering your physical shape or daily habits. So I will have to pay more taxes to help fatass over here stay alive when my personal needs are VERY low. It is completely unfair and that fatass should have to pay more to stay on or be dropped from insurance.
Xlr10 
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21 / M / Dubai
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Posted 8/7/16
All I have to say to this is that the Media did a fine job of spinning what actually on the original affordable healthcare(AH) act Bill.

- First Obamacare is not forced but if a state accepts it, Its has to follow up all the points of the bill in order that funds released from federal could not be allocated anywhere else in states budget .The basic plan was to 95% subsidised which was heavy recommended for people earning a wage and was added as a condition for it to pass. ( The press then mentioned it was forced and didn't mention how much it was subsidised by)

- All Obamacare does is two things, remove programmes that ever heavy outdated in terms of overcharging for services that were lower without subsidies or didn't meet a standard. In addition of just subsidising health care from insurance companies by a set percentage and then providing it to the public.

-All that money comes from the taxpayer correct but this is made difficult for middle-class families and lower class families due to the fact that percentage of tax is followed in U.S.A is a more recessive tax policy where the rich pay lower amount of money of their earning in the belief that they will invest the money into the economy but most of it ends up in other countries in saving accounts this leads to unfair amount of money being pulled from the rest of society.

- Overall Obama ended the winner in all this anyway because most his backers are from healthcare companies and insurance companies as they get subsidies for just provide a service that you may or may not use in the future.

If anyone needs help with health care in the US, Just reply to this comment there are cheaper ways to gain good medical care.
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 8/7/16

Rujikin wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

If I paid for Obamacare I'd be living in the poor house. I just go without insurance. So now I still have no healthcare and the government is trying to punish me for not getting it. I've only been hurt with Obamacare. It's HORRIBLE and needs repealed.


That's stupid you should get healthcare access to free healthcare is a human right in the first world.



Nothing is free. Everything is paid for. I just want it to return to how it was in the 50's or 60's when you could walk into a doctors office with a broken leg, have them do all of their procedures for it, and give them $200 cash. Now they make the price $3000 because insurance will negotiate it down to $500 then the doctors have to pay for tons of support staff just to deal with that insurance plus have on call lawyers for when insurance companies try to sue you to dispute how much they have to pay in court.


Of course taxes play a part.

That sounds horrible lucky in my country we don't do that our visits are paid by taxes which are fairly laid out based on how much a person earns.



The thing I hate about free healthcare is that it is quite unfair. I eat well, buy quality food that costs a little more, and exercise near daily so I am in great shape and I haven't even needed to go to the doctor for 3-4 years. Then you have some megaton fatass that eats nothing but fatty and greasy food that weighs 500 lbs, never exercises, and has pages worth of diseases all related to their weight and/or smoking.

I need very little medical care while this fatass needs more healthcare than 10 people in moderate shape. Because of megaton, and many others, the cost of free medical insurance will rise because free healthcare will tax everyone equally not considering your physical shape or daily habits. So I will have to pay more taxes to help fatass over here stay alive when my personal needs are VERY low. It is completely unfair and that fatass should have to pay more to stay on or be dropped from insurance.


true but then you have people like me who need it and if it didnt't exist would be in poverty or dead :P.

Someone will always suffer...i think people should pay taxes but im biased as without that system i would be dead.
82916 cr points
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44 / M / WA
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Posted 8/7/16 , edited 8/7/16
Obamacare is a plan people don't want, at a price they can't afford, violating ideals they hold dear. The Democrates are the party of force, which is why I will never be a Democrat.

Not forced? Say that to little sisters of the poor who's religious rights are being trampled on, say it to the pharmacist that doesn't want to carry abortifacients/contraceptives.

I should get some insurance pretty soon, but I will not go thru Obamacare or pay the fine/tax. There are some Christian plans with moral lifestyle requirements that keep costs low that fit an ACA exception that should fit the bill.
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25 / M / NYC Metro Area
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Posted 8/7/16
Pros:
-More people have insurance
-Some working class and poor people pay less for insurance
-More things are covered
-No more preexisting conditions

Cons:
-Middle class is screwed, their deductibles have reached limits that are so high they basically are paying everything out of pocket
and have less money to survive
-People's employers are more likely to give part time workers less than 30 hours to avoid paying for health insurance, thus cutting their paycheck
-Individual mandate: punish the poor and working classes for being poor. If you employer offers expensive insurance and you
cannot afford it you are basically screwed when it comes to qualifying for subsidies, which basically means you will stay uninsured.
19563 cr points
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25 / M / NYC Metro Area
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Posted 8/7/16 , edited 8/7/16
Also pushed for more health insurance companies into mergers and use other anti-competitive practices meaning nobody pays less from so called market competition. In my state we are all seeing a 20-40% hike in premiums next year, don't know how much longer my family will be able to afford insurance. Another rate increase or two my parents and siblings will probably be uninsured, and since both my parents work and live in an area with a high cost of living they won't qualify for subsidies (or nothing meaningful) so paying the fine might be the only option left, I hope it doesn't comes to that.
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21 / F / USA
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Posted 8/7/16 , edited 8/7/16
To go over everything in 'Obamacare' or the Affordable Care Act would take forever. I believed if printed out on standard sized printer paper, double sided, it would nearly go from the floor to the ceiling in a standard sized room. Some main points, which others may have gone over, are...

- Everybody needs health insurance or pay a tax. Obama claims its not a tax but the US Supreme Court said its a tax, so its a tax. This is the first example of blatant lies and misdirection involved in the bill
- People who buy insurance through an exchange may qualify for a subsidy. The average subsidy is in the $250.00 a month range last I checked...but the average plan is much, much more expensive and getting moreso by the year, about 20-40% in most places. And many people will not qualify for that subsidy, or if they do it will be much less. So its like being required to spend a bunch of money, but that's okay because the government will pick up a couple hundred of that. I mean you will still be out the rest...
- Taxes were levied on medical equipment and premium insurance plans. Ironically, most of these premium plans were union health insurance plans which drove up their costs.
- Proceeds from the medical device and no insurance taxes will go to health insurance companies to offset the increased costs of covering high risk people. Wait, I thought they were raising premiums by 40% to cover high risk people? Which is it, industry?
- If you have a pre-existing condition you won't be denied coverage. Also, you can stay on your parents' plan until you are 26 which is really needed because of all the NEETs that are not able to find jobs because...
- If you have a business that employs I think 50 people or more you have to buy them health insurance which increases the costs of hiring and employing people which is really hurting people who are looking for jobs and stifling economic growth.
- State health exchange marketplaces would be established to create more market competition. Problem is they were underfunded, poorly managed, and over regulated. In short, they were doomed from inception. 23 exchanges were set up. 13 have died. 10 hang by a thread.


Individually some of these policies are good ideas. The problem is that the law was written by corrupt politicians who had no idea what they were doing and were in the pockets of insurance companies who had a lot of say in how the law was written. Health reforms passed back in the 90's by Bill Clinton that gave rise to HMOs also played a part in the system's failure.

Since the 90's when government got really involved in the medical industry regulations and litigation have turned the industry from one that was patient focused and transparent to one that was regulatory focused and opaque. A relative spent 8 days in a hospital, the hospital charged them over a million dollars. Insurance covered it with a $500 copay. They had to really fight to get that bill just because they were curious. They were charged ridiculous amounts for minor items. A bottle of mouthwash my pharmacy sells for $4 which is still insanely overcharging (costs us like 50 cents from our supplier) my relative was charged $50 by the hospital for. And in some ways, they need to. Back in the 80's and 90's here were 2 or 3 doctors per background regulator or administrator. Nowadays there are 7 or 8 administrators per doctor. And with all the red tape and regulations from government and insurance these staff positions are required.

Hospitals have become money making corporations. Colluding with health insurance companies and big pharma they have been raking in billions, raising prices, and doing everything they can to hide it.

Obamacare's failure was in its complexity and failure to address the root causes of rising medical costs: over-regulation, opaqueness and separation of patient and costs, increasing costs of prescription drugs, and rising health insurance costs. Instead it just threw another layer of bureaucracy between the patient and the doctor while giving the health insurance and hospital industry a blank check.

How could Obamacare be fixed? Through several methods...
1. Break up some of the big Health Insurance companies. Increased competition will improve service and decrease costs.
2. Decrease regulations
3. Tort reform
4. Inform the patient of more upfront costs through higher insurance deductibles, perhaps balanced by health savings accounts, to allow for free markets to actually work.
5. Pricing oversight for hospitals and other medical providers

A suggestion has been single payer government health insurance. This would be a solution-ish thing at least in the short term. But as mentioned there are people who would or already are abusing the system taxes would go way up because of it. And this would not contain anything to control costs unless this was coupled with a government takeover of the hospital and medical industry.
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24 / M / San Francisco Bay...
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Posted 8/7/16

Rujikin wrote:
The thing I hate about free healthcare is that it is quite unfair. I eat well, buy quality food that costs a little more, and exercise near daily so I am in great shape and I haven't even needed to go to the doctor for 3-4 years. Then you have some megaton fatass that eats nothing but fatty and greasy food that weighs 500 lbs, never exercises, and has pages worth of diseases all related to their weight and/or smoking.

I need very little medical care while this fatass needs more healthcare than 10 people in moderate shape. Because of megaton, and many others, the cost of free medical insurance will rise because free healthcare will tax everyone equally not considering your physical shape or daily habits. So I will have to pay more taxes to help fatass over here stay alive when my personal needs are VERY low. It is completely unfair and that fatass should have to pay more to stay on or be dropped from insurance.


That argument can be applied to just about any government service though. Public transportation funding is unfair for those who don't own a car. K-12 education funding is unfair for families who pay for education. College funding is unfair for those who either paid for private college without loans or didn't go to college. Unemployment insurance funding is unfair those who are employed. Social security funding is unfair for those who paid for their own retirement. Libraries funding is unfair for whose who can procure the services (e.g. availability of books, computer/internet access) for themselves. You get the idea.

At the very least, most people can agree that everyone should have healthcare, not unlike the belief everyone should have K-12 education. The system we've had in place--where employees are expected to provide healthcare for employees lest they face taxes--is one that's failing to cover people. The question really isn't if people should have healthcare, but how we get it to them. And unless prices of the individual market can be driven down to the point where owning health insurance isn't more expensive, then say, paying the water bill, then having the government provide funds is inevitable.

And, although perhaps besides the point, not everyone can be healthy by exercise/dieting alone: predisposed disabilities are a thing. Myopia ("near-sightedness") is a relatively common and straightforward one to understand.
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38 / M
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Posted 8/7/16

kevz_210 wrote:

Pros:
-More people have insurance
-Some working class and poor people pay less for insurance
-More things are covered
-No more preexisting conditions

Cons:
-Middle class is screwed, their deductibles have reached limits that are so high they basically are paying everything out of pocket
and have less money to survive
-People's employers are more likely to give part time workers less than 30 hours to avoid paying for health insurance, thus cutting their paycheck
-Individual mandate: punish the poor and working classes for being poor. If you employer offers expensive insurance and you
cannot afford it you are basically screwed when it comes to qualifying for subsidies, which basically means you will stay uninsured.


Additional Cons:
-Many people lost their lower cost health plans, because the plans didn't have things covered that the health care recipient didn't need, but were required by the ACA. This included plans before 2010, because insurance companies weren't going to maintain the plans as grandfathered, being unable to add new participants and unable to make changes outside what was allowed for grandfathered plans. The result was that some people that had insurance could no longer afford insurance, and had to pay the fine instead, and others had to pay at a higher rate than before the ACA.
-The cost of the ACA. It was pitched as paying for itself, and then some, but the numbers put together were garbage from the get go. Also, the assumptions put forth didn't pan out, such as the reliance on young healthy people signing up for inflated rate insurance and carrying the older/sicker participants.
-The cadallac tax. While it sounds like it would only affect those whose employer plans are overly generous, it will eventually kill all employer plans because it is not set to adjust on medical inflation. This result is the likely reason that the law was pushed through, not to get everyone health coverage, but to tax and eventually get rid of all employer sponsored health coverage.
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48 / M / New England, USA
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Posted 8/8/16
The main point for Obamacare:
http://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2016/03/03/20-million-people-have-gained-health-insurance-coverage-because-affordable-care-act-new-estimates
- 20 Million people who couldn't afford health insurance or couldn't get it due to "pre-existing conditions" now have it. 20 MILLION uninsured are now insured.

Other Pros:
- Hospitals, Doctors and Health Insurance Companies are being policed for discriminatory practices, overcharging, unnecessary procedures/tests//medicinal prescribing, unsafe conditions and illegal bill-collecting practices that they had been using before Obamacare.

Why the GOP truly doesn't want Obamacare:
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/04/14217409-health-insurance-industry-which-praised-obamacare-gives-to-kill-it
- As usual the lobbyists behind the curtain pull the puppets strings.
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38 / M
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Posted 8/9/16

DanteLove wrote:

Thanks for the link, it had some valuable information that helped me understand it even better. I unfortunatlely can't find the link to to survey, but it waw not like that. They did talk about the advantages and disadvantges on both sides but the naming of the act was a major factor determining the likelihood of people agreeing with that


thubar2000 wrote:


DanteLove wrote:

The funny thing about it is that during a survey, they ask people if they were ok with the reforms of the Affordable Health Care Act and most American said yes. However, soon as we ask them again if they like the "Obama"care they said no


Surveys & statistics are like a bikini on a hot girl, what you see is nice, but what's underneath is what a dude really wants to see. I believe that the pollsters split up the laws and asked people if they like certain benefits. The respondents said yes to the individual benefits, but the actual implementation & the balanced budget parts of the law not so much. That's even before we get to the unintended consequences/predictable regrets phase of the law.

To answer the original question, a quick Google search yielded this link: https://www.healthcare.gov/where-can-i-read-the-affordable-care-act/

I recommend that you take a quick peek at the official version and remember that Congress had 3 days to read & act on the final version. If it doesn't make any sense & the cross & cross-cross references make you go cross eyed, you aren't alone.




Again, devil is in the details with surveys and statistics. Very important in discussion or we may end up talking past each other, like now.
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26 / M
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Posted 8/9/16
Obamacare is complete shit
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