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Post Reply Target's $20 million answer to transgender bathroom boycott
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Posted 8/17/16

zero1200 wrote:

I thought single bathrooms were already a thing


Some areas do have them, yes. They're not everywhere though.
Posted 8/17/16 , edited 8/17/16
In all honesty I'm transgender (MTF) and well see nothing wrong with targets decision for a third party/single bathroom in all honesty. I mean yeah I can see both sides of the arguments for (transgender MTF or FTM being able to use the restroom they identify their gender with) and against and well side with the for in all honesty since well transgender myself.

I mean think about this someone who is on HRT they will look like the opposite gender yeah they still have the you know what but if you take HRT long enough and you will eventually look completely like the opposite gender.

For example lets just say your (MTF) the HRT has made you competently feminine looking. You walk into the male restroom people will think your genuine female and get upset about that or something even worst might happen.

Same for (FTM) even though they are on HRT you look completely male you will get mistaken as a male walking into the female bathroom and have to deal with the same kind of trouble.

So in all honesty if you are transgender and on HRT you really can't walk into your original genders bathroom despite the fact you still have your born genders you know what.

Edit: figured I had to make what the for was for lol.
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Posted 8/17/16 , edited 8/17/16

Lemontitties wrote:

What about schools and such? Target isn't the only place it's going to affect I hope you know...


I'm not arguing they should build single occupancy restrooms in every school, park, government office, and private business. I'm arguing that if any constituency decides that they want to I'm alright with it, and that regardless transgender people should be granted access to facilities comporting with their gender identities. Anyone who takes advantage of such a policy for the sake of committing acts that are already illegal under current law should still be prosecuted, and there is no evidence that a statistically significant increase in such incidents occurs in jurisdictions where such access has been granted that I have ever been presented with. If you think that schools, public parks, and government offices should build single occupancy facilities regardless it is incumbent upon you to justify that spending.


Lemontitties wrote:

Some people haven't responded to legitimate points I've made, and some have dodged them completely.


There is nothing to respond to when someone says "I'm not going to read your sources because things change."
Posted 8/17/16

BlueOni wrote:

I'm not arguing they should build single occupancy restrooms in every school, park, government office, and private business. I'm arguing that if any constituency decides that they want to I'm alright with it, and that regardless transgender people should be granted access to facilities comporting with their gender identities. Anyone who takes advantage of such a policy for the sake of committing acts that are already illegal under current law should still be prosecuted, and there is no evidence that a statistically significant increase in such incidents occurs in jurisdictions where such access has been granted that I have ever been presented with. If you think that schools, public parks, and government offices should build single occupancy facilities regardless it is incumbent upon you to justify that spending.


Agree with this what I was trying to say but well said it 100% better lol.
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Posted 8/17/16 , edited 8/18/16

BlueOni wrote:


I'm not arguing they should build single occupancy restrooms in every school, park, government office, and private business. I'm arguing that if any constituency decides that they want to I'm alright with it, and that regardless transgender people should be granted access to facilities comporting with their gender identities. Anyone who takes advantage of such a policy for the sake of committing acts that are already illegal under current law should still be prosecuted, and there is no evidence that a statistically significant increase in such incidents occurs in jurisdictions where such access has been granted that I have ever been presented with. If you think that schools, public parks, and government offices should build single occupancy facilities regardless it is incumbent upon you to justify that spending.


I know you're not, I'm not insinuating that. However, you have to look at the bigger picture. Just because you aren't necessarily saying that, doesn't mean other people aren't going to fight for it as well. And it will, once one thing sparks, everything else follows. It doesn't matter if there's "statistics" or not, it's called common sense. Forgive my rudeness if I seem to come off this way, but you seem to get a lot of your views from the media and refuse to form your own opinion. I'm not really sure if that's the right approach for this topic. Another user on here, who has yet to respond, tried to tell me any gender would do this regardless:

Lemontitties wrote:


What happens when a woman goes into their respective restroom and there's a group of guys waiting...what do you think is going to happen.


That's simply not the case. MTF's aren't females and FTM's aren't males, thus they can't look like one completely unless they were to do something like a sex change (granted, there are some exceptionally realistic looking ones, but the majority of them will not look like the ones on google images). You really think a woman is going to continue to do her business in the restroom knowing there's a group of guys there? No, she's going to run out of there as fast as she can. What about this new transgender policy though? Well, that just opens up a whole new room for possibilities for rapists and such. Why, they can just dress up and pretend to be doing business in the restroom, but in reality, they're there for one simple purpose. And the woman has no choice but to continue doing her business because liberals have won yet again. This is where you need to see the bigger picture.
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Posted 8/17/16

courtney9094 wrote:

Agree with this what I was trying to say but well said it 100% better lol.


At this point I'm very well-practiced at debating this topic. More practiced than I would've liked to be, honestly. Hopefully one day it will be an obvious thing that transgender people ought to be allowed to go into identity-appropriate restrooms and the focus will be on resolving issues facing transgender people such as those I mentioned earlier. The fact that the transgender murder rate is steadily rising as the years press on is disconcerting. The fact that transgender people face more than a 30% chance of being sexually harassed or assaulted while incarcerated is disconcerting. The fact that transgender youth are vulnerable to homelessness, criminality, and drug use is disconcerting. The fact that there are individuals and institutions attempting to muddy the waters about dialogue on improvement of treatment options for transgender people by misusing available data is disconcerting. It shouldn't be so hard to convince people that what bog a transgender person sits on isn't a bloody problem. It should be possible to move past that and hit upon the harder issues.
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Posted 8/17/16 , edited 8/18/16

BlueOni wrote:


There is nothing to respond to when someone says "I'm not going to read your sources because things change."


When I've already given you proof of how our policies have changed and continue to change, especially with the big one being gay marriages, the proof is simply in the pudding at that point. That's like going off an article of something regarding video games. A developer says there will be no paid DLC (I'm looking at you No Man's Sky), but then a week later, the same spokesperson does a 180 and says "Well, there might be paid DLC". I'm not sure how familiar you are w/ this since I have no idea if you play video games, but this indeed happened. Articles are articles. They're just one thing said at the time while million's of people are constantly speaking out against it anyway and/or constantly changing. Again, look at gay marriages. I really don't have to keep repeating myself to you, do I?
Humms 
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Posted 8/17/16
How about those bathrooms that anyone can use, you know the ones I'm talking about... uhhh what are they called again... oh ya! A unisex bathroom, they got one of those fancy things called a door, and a neat little do hicky called a lock, and people somehow use it, I dunno it's crazy to think about it
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Posted 8/17/16 , edited 8/17/16

Humms wrote:

How about those bathrooms that anyone can use, you know the ones I'm talking about... uhhh what are they called again... oh ya! A unisex bathroom, they got one of those fancy things called a door, and a neat little do hicky called a lock, and people somehow use it, I dunno it's crazy to think about it


They do have these in certain areas I believe, but I agree 100%. If it's something that's already in place and/or it doesn't consume our tax dollars for the sake of transgenders, I'm all for it. Just stop trying to allow men to go into women's restrooms and vice versa
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Posted 8/17/16

Lemontitties wrote:

I know you're not, I'm not insinuating that. However, you have to look at the bigger picture. Just because you aren't necessarily saying that, doesn't mean other people aren't going to fight for it as well. And it will, once one thing sparks, everything else follows.


The people demanding single occupancy restrooms be constructed and the people fighting for transgender facility access tend to be on opposite sides of the protest lines.


It doesn't matter if there's "statistics" or not, it's called common sense.


No.


Forgive my rudeness if I seem to come off this way, but you seem to get a lot of your facts from the media and refuse to form your own opinion. I'm not really sure if that's the right approach for this topic.


Actually, I form my opinions based on statistics and data. That's why I cited them. That's why I've asked for them. I put no stock in "common sense", you put no stock in statistics. One is a reasonable position, the other is absurd. Guess which is which?


Another user on here, who has yet to respond, tried to tell me any gender would do this regardless:

What happens when a woman goes into their respective restroom and there's a group of guys waiting...what do you think is going to happen.


That's simply not the case. MTF's aren't females and FTM's aren't males, thus they can't look like one completely unless they were to do something like a sex change (granted, there are some exceptionally realistic looking ones, but the majority of them will not look like the ones on google images). You really think a woman is going to continue to do her business in the restroom knowing there's a group of guys there? No, she's going to run out of there as fast as she can. What about this new transgender policy though? Well, that just opens up a whole new room for possibilities for rapists and such. Why, they can just dress up and pretend to be doing business in the restroom, but in reality, they're there for one simple purpose. And the woman has no choice but to continue doing her business because liberals have won yet again. This is where you need to see the bigger picture.


You're making an empirical argument about crime data. As a result appeals to "common sense" don't work here. Show a statistically significant, causal, positive relationship between the number of incidents you're concerned about and the policy in question.
Posted 8/17/16

BlueOni wrote:


courtney9094 wrote:

Agree with this what I was trying to say but well said it 100% better lol.


At this point I'm very well-practiced at debating this topic. More practiced than I would've liked to be, honestly. Hopefully one day it will be an obvious thing that transgender people ought to be allowed to go into identity-appropriate restrooms and the focus will be on resolving issues facing transgender people such as those I mentioned earlier. The fact that the transgender murder rate is steadily rising as the years press on is disconcerting. The fact that transgender people face more than a 30% chance of being sexually harassed or assaulted while incarcerated is disconcerting. The fact that transgender youth are vulnerable to homelessness, criminality, and drug use is disconcerting. The fact that there are individuals and institutions attempting to muddy the waters about dialogue on improvement of treatment options for transgender people by misusing available data is disconcerting. It shouldn't be so hard to convince people that what bog a transgender person sits on isn't a bloody problem. It should be possible to move past that and hit upon the harder issues.


Hmm well this is the first time I tried jumping into one of these things lol. I usually avoid them but being transgender (MTF) my self I figured I at least needed to try and well throw my 2 cents in no matter how bad it was lol. Then yep hopefully it will and well believe it will in all honesty. Then yeah it is disconcerting to hear and I never knew that about the other statistic in all honesty. Then yep highly agree with you on that as well it's all messed up in all honesty.

Then yeah I agree the stuff and data they are using and saying is well highly inaccurate and extremely exaggerated in all honesty and is being used as a fear tactic in all honesty. Then once again agree in all honesty there is more bigger problems then this in all honesty. It's a bit ridiculous actually and well in my opinion.
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Posted 8/17/16

Lemontitties wrote:


Humms wrote:

How about those bathrooms that anyone can use, you know the ones I'm talking about... uhhh what are they called again... oh ya! A unisex bathroom, they got one of those fancy things called a door, and a neat little do hicky called a lock, and people somehow use it, I dunno it's crazy to think about it


They do have these in certain areas I believe, but I agree 100%. If it's something that's already in place and/or doesn't consume our tax dollars for the sake of transgenders, I'm all for it. Just stop trying to allow men go into women's restrooms and vice versa


Who cares! It's called natural selection

When I was a child, I never went into the girls bathroom.

When I became an adult, I never went into the women's bathroom.

It's really not a hard concept to follow, I can probably teach it to a dog and it would understand better than most people.

And if by some chance you had no choice but to use the women's bathroom, who cares! If you gotta go you gotta go, am I really going to destroy my body by holding it in for the sake of our gender!

It's a Fucking toilet. I wish I could just straight up tell these people off, they got nothing better to do than waste more money and time for the sake of being selfish and entitled. Fuck me sideways.
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Posted 8/17/16

BlueOni wrote:


Lemontitties wrote:

I know you're not, I'm not insinuating that. However, you have to look at the bigger picture. Just because you aren't necessarily saying that, doesn't mean other people aren't going to fight for it as well. And it will, once one thing sparks, everything else follows.


The people demanding single occupancy restrooms be constructed and the people fighting for transgender facility access tend to be on opposite sides of the protest lines.


It doesn't matter if there's "statistics" or not, it's called common sense.


No.


Forgive my rudeness if I seem to come off this way, but you seem to get a lot of your facts from the media and refuse to form your own opinion. I'm not really sure if that's the right approach for this topic.


Actually, I form my opinions based on statistics and data. That's why I cited them. That's why I've asked for them. I put no stock in "common sense", you put no stock in statistics. One is a reasonable position, the other is absurd. Guess which is which?


Another user on here, who has yet to respond, tried to tell me any gender would do this regardless:

What happens when a woman goes into their respective restroom and there's a group of guys waiting...what do you think is going to happen.


That's simply not the case. MTF's aren't females and FTM's aren't males, thus they can't look like one completely unless they were to do something like a sex change (granted, there are some exceptionally realistic looking ones, but the majority of them will not look like the ones on google images). You really think a woman is going to continue to do her business in the restroom knowing there's a group of guys there? No, she's going to run out of there as fast as she can. What about this new transgender policy though? Well, that just opens up a whole new room for possibilities for rapists and such. Why, they can just dress up and pretend to be doing business in the restroom, but in reality, they're there for one simple purpose. And the woman has no choice but to continue doing her business because liberals have won yet again. This is where you need to see the bigger picture.


You're making an empirical argument about crime data. As a result appeals to "common sense" don't work here. Show a statistically significant, causal, positive relationship between the number of incidents you're concerned about and the policy in question.


I'm not sure how to do what you just did, so I'm just going to respond as is. Well, if that's true, you got me there. No, what? Common sense is a big factor in life, it's how we keep living and refrain from doing stupid stuff. You're telling me because there's no statistics of that happening right now, that's it's likely to never happen? You do realize this has just recently become a topic, right? What happens when it becomes an actual thing, hm? The capitalizing will commence, mark my words. I don't blindly follow the media and just go w/ the flow, which seems to be what you're exactly doing. Read my analogy in my next post, I've already showed you how your "articles" don't stay the same forever. In fact, they're unlikely to stay that way w/ all the protesting going on right now. Actually, it does work here. You see, when you put two and two together, and it "makes sense", it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Again, you're going off of statistics on articles which constantly fluctuate. I mean sure, I don't think someone has gone to their local gamestop, shoved a video game up their butt, and proceeded to throw the same game at people inside yet. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, right? My example isn't so far fetched, and you know this, but you want to keep playing the statistics card on something that "makes sense". Besides, I've given several different reasoning's other than just that one.
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Posted 8/17/16 , edited 8/17/16

Humms wrote:


Who cares! It's called natural selection

When I was a child, I never went into the girls bathroom.

When I became an adult, I never went into the women's bathroom.

It's really not a hard concept to follow, I can probably teach it to a dog and it would understand better than most people.

And if by some chance you had no choice but to use the women's bathroom, who cares! If you gotta go you gotta go, am I really going to destroy my body by holding it in for the sake of our gender!

It's a Fucking toilet. I wish I could just straight up tell these people off, they got nothing better to do than waste more money and time for the sake of being selfish and entitled. Fuck me sideways.


How would anyone have no choice but to use a woman's restroom? Please, give me an example, that's a ludicrous statement you just made. You know the people who care? The men who want their privacy when using the restroom from the opposite sex. The women who want their privacy from the opposite sex. What about when a woman is menstruating? Or how about just disemboweling in general? How is that such a hard concept to follow? Seems to me like you're the one being selfish here bud. Us wasting money? LOL That's actually the liberals who are fighting for this, but hey, keep blaming us conservatives I suppose. You guys seem to be really good at that.
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