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Post Reply casual music fans vs true music fans
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Posted 8/21/16
I'm partially hardcore, I guess. I have a diverse taste all the way from Classical to contemporary Rock. I usually prefer it from 60s to 90s. Especially the period of '65 to '75 which is like the golden age of Rock. Some new music are fine as long as they are non commercial. But TBH, I really can't stand the mainstream charts with all the pop and hip hop drivel. Anyway, I mostly stick to my favourites like Pink Floyd, The Kinks, Velvet Underground, Bob Dylan, Black Sabbath and bands from that era.
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Posted 8/21/16 , edited 8/21/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


This I agree with something isn't music just because you said so, I don't really care for country yet I'm not going to say it's not music because I don't listen to it because those artists put their blood, sweat, and tears into every piece they do. Yeah of course there is those who make the genre look bad but at the same time there are those make the genre look good like they're supposed to do.
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Posted 8/21/16 , edited 8/21/16

Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


This I agree with something isn't music just because you said so, I don't really care for country yet I'm not going to say it's not music because I don't listen to it because those artists put their blood, sweat, and tears into every piece they do. Yeah of course there is those who make the genre look bad but at the same time there are those make the genre look good like they're supposed to do.


this is a great video examining some of the process behind rap and rhyme. Makes the genre look a lot more complex than it is given credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU
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Posted 8/21/16
Posted 8/21/16

atleap wrote:

The way I see it, most people who state the difference between a "true" music fan and just a "regular" music fan is more concerned with their hipster-narcissistic image and wants to feel like they come from a higher culture than everyone else.

I'm not dividing these people into what type of music they listen to, whether it be billboard top100 or the most obscure thing ever, but rather I divide them into their opinions. Music isn't meant to divide, but to bring together, so who cares if you like Ariana Grande more than Emma Longard.


Agreed ^
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20 / F / Washington
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Posted 8/22/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


You can classify it as non music if its just rapping. If rapping doesn't have a beat, or sound, musical tone behind it is merely talking fast and rhythmically. It's not really 'musical' in any sense. It's poetry sure, it's rhythmical sure, but it's not musical.
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Posted 8/22/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


This I agree with something isn't music just because you said so, I don't really care for country yet I'm not going to say it's not music because I don't listen to it because those artists put their blood, sweat, and tears into every piece they do. Yeah of course there is those who make the genre look bad but at the same time there are those make the genre look good like they're supposed to do.


this is a great video examining some of the process behind rap and rhyme. Makes the genre look a lot more complex than it is given credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

That was a great piece but people will still think that the genre is mindless and has no thought process behind it when in fact, you have to sit down and think out what your message or rhyme is and I should know I've wrote a few Raps before.



dakotasapphire wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


You can classify it as non music if its just rapping. If rapping doesn't have a beat, or sound, musical tone behind it is merely talking fast and rhythmically. It's not really 'musical' in any sense. It's poetry sure, it's rhythmical sure, but it's not musical.


I don't wanna live in whatever world you live because what you're doing is regurgitating points that has been made by many people with the same thought process yet I see more people who can relate to Rap music more so than any other genre but maybe I'm just delusional and I've been living in lala land.
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Posted 8/22/16

Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


This I agree with something isn't music just because you said so, I don't really care for country yet I'm not going to say it's not music because I don't listen to it because those artists put their blood, sweat, and tears into every piece they do. Yeah of course there is those who make the genre look bad but at the same time there are those make the genre look good like they're supposed to do.


this is a great video examining some of the process behind rap and rhyme. Makes the genre look a lot more complex than it is given credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

That was a great piece but people will still think that the genre is mindless and has no thought process behind it when in fact, you have to sit down and think out what your message or rhyme is and I should know I've wrote a few Raps before.



dakotasapphire wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


You can classify it as non music if its just rapping. If rapping doesn't have a beat, or sound, musical tone behind it is merely talking fast and rhythmically. It's not really 'musical' in any sense. It's poetry sure, it's rhythmical sure, but it's not musical.


I don't wanna live in whatever world you live because what you're doing is regurgitating points that has been made by many people with the same thought process yet I see more people who can relate to Rap music more so than any other genre but maybe I'm just delusional and I've been living in lala land.


You're totally not wrong with that, that more people relate to it, but as someone who can read notes on a page and play the piano, and I'm a percussionist as well, I can tell you rap is clearly not 'music' in the clearest sense. If you want to like it you can, but it's basic premise isn't complex like a real song would be. There are exceptions like Linkin Park, fort minor, some of the featuring this rap artist songs, but rapping isn't really 'singing' to my soul. It's merely feeling like I'm being told something in a ridiculous way, and many rap songs talk solely about impure thoughts, illegal activities, rape, prison, murder, or just sex. Regarding eminem he's a fking fanatastic artist, but he's a genius only a few rapers really compare to. (watching that video). It's not that it's something HORRIBLE that I can say should be just wiped off the face of the earth, but if you're not right near the box listening very closely you're only hearing loud beats and sharp slurs of the tongue. If you were hear a guitar you might remember the sound, but rap you remember it's loud from far away, and nothing more.

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Posted 8/22/16 , edited 8/22/16

dakotasapphire wrote:


Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


This I agree with something isn't music just because you said so, I don't really care for country yet I'm not going to say it's not music because I don't listen to it because those artists put their blood, sweat, and tears into every piece they do. Yeah of course there is those who make the genre look bad but at the same time there are those make the genre look good like they're supposed to do.


this is a great video examining some of the process behind rap and rhyme. Makes the genre look a lot more complex than it is given credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

That was a great piece but people will still think that the genre is mindless and has no thought process behind it when in fact, you have to sit down and think out what your message or rhyme is and I should know I've wrote a few Raps before.



dakotasapphire wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


You can classify it as non music if its just rapping. If rapping doesn't have a beat, or sound, musical tone behind it is merely talking fast and rhythmically. It's not really 'musical' in any sense. It's poetry sure, it's rhythmical sure, but it's not musical.


I don't wanna live in whatever world you live because what you're doing is regurgitating points that has been made by many people with the same thought process yet I see more people who can relate to Rap music more so than any other genre but maybe I'm just delusional and I've been living in lala land.


You're totally not wrong with that, that more people relate to it, but as someone who can read notes on a page and play the piano, and I'm a percussionist as well, I can tell you rap is clearly not 'music' in the clearest sense. If you want to like it you can, but it's basic premise isn't complex like a real song would be. There are exceptions like Linkin Park, fort minor, some of the featuring this rap artist songs, but rapping isn't really 'singing' to my soul. It's merely feeling like I'm being told something in a ridiculous way, and many rap songs talk solely about impure thoughts, illegal activities, rape, prison, murder, or just sex. Regarding eminem he's a fking fanatastic artist, but he's a genius only a few rapers really compare to. (watching that video). It's not that it's something HORRIBLE that I can say should be just wiped off the face of the earth, but if you're not right near the box listening very closely you're only hearing loud beats and sharp slurs of the tongue. If you were hear a guitar you might remember the sound, but rap you remember it's loud from far away, and nothing more.



You're just regurgitating facts that have been said time and time again as reasons when they're still moot points. Rap isn't all about sex, drugs, money, and prison some songs may seem like they're glorifying these things, but in reality there's an underlying message and it's a message you're clearly not getting. Eminem is a great lyricist in a category few can compare but there are still those who are better than him in that sense like Rakim or 2Pac. Rap is truly a beautiful genre when all the gutter mud and grime is wiped off but it's a beauty not everyone will see but not only Rap but every genre has its beauty that will appeal to a certain person and not so much others.
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Posted 8/22/16

dakotasapphire wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


You can classify it as non music if its just rapping. If rapping doesn't have a beat, or sound, musical tone behind it is merely talking fast and rhythmically. It's not really 'musical' in any sense. It's poetry sure, it's rhythmical sure, but it's not musical.


Doesn't all rap have a beat and rhythm. Sure, it may be in a loop and such and the beat could be uninspired or just a sample, but it serves its purpose. Lets look at the definition of music here.

Music-vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.

The beat behind a rap track is often known as an instrumental and can incorporate various tone changes and shifts, but that isn't always the case. However, your point doesn't mean that rap isn't music. Once again, I bring up electronic music as a similar form. I think your definition of what is considered music is too narrow. Doesn't have a beat? Most raps have a beat. I don't know too many rap songs with just an isolated vocal track. Rappers actually need the beat so that their lyrics can have even flow and consistency, just like poetry. No sound? Isn't that what the beat is for? Aren't repetitive beats still considered music? You can ride a drum beat for an entire song, but you wouldn't say that the drummer isn't playing music, but rather he is keeping rhythm, which is what the beat in rap is for. Btw, not all rappers are necessarily "fast talkers". Most are, but there are a variety of styles to it.

please note, I am not a rap fan. However, I have listened to some rap and I known what goes into it. There is actually a creative process to it that is much more complex than it is given credit for. Watch this video below for details on this if you want

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

Music can be complex or it can be simple. Avant guard music may just sound like a bunch of noise to some, but that doesn't mean it isn't music. I can't really get behind the idea of labeling anything as not-musical based off the criteria that you have given me. If we are taking the dictionary definition into consideration, then rap totally fulfills this definition of music.
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Posted 8/22/16

Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Markest1 wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


This I agree with something isn't music just because you said so, I don't really care for country yet I'm not going to say it's not music because I don't listen to it because those artists put their blood, sweat, and tears into every piece they do. Yeah of course there is those who make the genre look bad but at the same time there are those make the genre look good like they're supposed to do.


this is a great video examining some of the process behind rap and rhyme. Makes the genre look a lot more complex than it is given credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

That was a great piece but people will still think that the genre is mindless and has no thought process behind it when in fact, you have to sit down and think out what your message or rhyme is and I should know I've wrote a few Raps before.



dakotasapphire wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


dakotasapphire wrote:

i WILL SAY rap is a non music. And that hip hop sucks. But I've listened to plenty of classic music. (all thanks to my parents) And love music as a whole. Not rap or country but there are exceptions.


is something a non music just because you don't like it? I understand that a good portion both have garbage acts in them. but what necessarily makes something music? Does it mean that there has to be instruments playing or has to be comprised of this and that? By that notion, is electronic music non music? You are entitled to your opinion and I respect I can respect that. I love classic music as much as anyone, and I used to have the same perspective as you do. However, I don't think you can classify anything as non music. It may not be music that you like necessarily, but I think it still counts. Rap/hip hop can be generic and derivative in some cases, but there are good acts in all genres. Music isn't above criticism and it is fine for you to not like certain genres, but I think everything counts as music if it has a set of sounds in a set order. Whether it is good or bad music is up to your discretion.


You can classify it as non music if its just rapping. If rapping doesn't have a beat, or sound, musical tone behind it is merely talking fast and rhythmically. It's not really 'musical' in any sense. It's poetry sure, it's rhythmical sure, but it's not musical.


I don't wanna live in whatever world you live because what you're doing is regurgitating points that has been made by many people with the same thought process yet I see more people who can relate to Rap music more so than any other genre but maybe I'm just delusional and I've been living in lala land.


Like most music, rap is a creative artform. It is poetry, but it is also music. If you put words to a beat or a sound, then it is music. One of the core foundations of music is rhythm. If you strip everything else from music down, you will always have a core rhythm holding a song together. That is what the beat in rap is for. I may not be a personal fan of rap, but I won't say the genre isn't non music. I may not like it, but it is still music. Some might say that rappers have no talent and no ability, but here is how I would respond to that. I'd be like "okay, you write a set of lyrics to coincide with this beat, flow evenly throughout the song, don't get tounge-tied, express a clear theme and message, etc and you tell me how it works out." just trying to keep up with raps in songs can be a challenge as well sometimes. Also, there Is free styling as well, which definitely takes skill to do.

also, here is a clip of eminem talking about rhyming words with orange "A feat most would say is impossible?." Hmmm, lets see....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRX8sXdCkfo .
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Posted 9/11/16 , edited 9/11/16
I don't think there is 'true music fans' just varying degrees of interest.

Some people are happy enough with whatever is playing at the time on the radio and maybe buys the odd album. Others might really get into a specific genre or people who are always actively searching out new music.

People seem to enjoy music in different ways I've noticed. Like when I listen to a song, I usually can't make out the lyrics and often can't remember them, even with songs I really enjoy. I rarely relate to lyrics but I like the way the song makes me feel and how I can create a story in my head to go with it. While other people find songwriting and lyrics very important. Other really enjoy the beat and whether they can dance to it.

I think the music scene is bad for gatekeeping though. Like the other day I was reading about how rock n roll fans made an orchestrated effort to destroy Disco, by burning disco records in a huge event that turned into a riot. Then you have hipsters and the like who say acts like Lady Gaga, Rihanna etc are awful because they're popular. Or stories about girls getting quizzed by male fans when they say they like a band. That type of thing is very sad.

I say this as a person who used to have absolutely zero interest in music and used to hate all of it with a passion until I gradually got into it. I'm now the person who reads NME, goes to gigs, trawls spotify and keeps running out of ipod storage space

And as for the quote, I think that rings true. I have genres I prefer of course, but I know now not to write off other ones. I used to be in the 'rap and country suck' camp. Until I saw artists I like citing them as influences. SO I went listened to some of teh songs in those genres they suggested and I actually quite like some of it. Even just being exposed to it is enough, I played Fallout New Vegas and now I have some country songs I enjoy. Don't write anything off without giving it a listen first.

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Posted 9/12/16 , edited 9/12/16
I'd say you're a casual when you only listen what comes your way. Even if you listen to something that is considered very marginal such as free jazz, but you're doing it because, for example, that's what your parents listen to, you're not really making the decision yourself. You should decide for yourself what kind of music moves you instead of only listening to something because mainstream media displays it or because people around you listen to it.

You can be a "true" music fan even if you only listen to Billboard hot 100 if you have come to the conclusion that it's the kind of music that you like the most. If you only listen to certain artists because that's what is easily available and popular I'd say that music must not be such an important thing to you. Sometimes people who almost exclusively listen to top hits do know some very non-mainstream songs that they really like, that perhaps their friend has introduced them to, but they've never made the effort to try and find more music like that.

So I'd say that it's all about how important music is to you in your life.

I personally think that there are good songs in all genres but not all of them will suit your tastes.
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Posted 9/12/16
Fan = Fanatic.
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Posted 9/21/16
What does it take to be a true music fan? one answer is, stop hating on country music too much and two, expand your horizons (even if you're casual).
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