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Post Reply Is it fair to have transgender women compete athletically against non-transgender women?
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Posted 8/20/16

Ejanss wrote:


nicoleami wrote:

I am transgender and though i may not agree with everyone opinions on here i do believe there is an unfair advantage in certain aspects. Yes hormone therapy does decrese muscle in the body and effectively weakens the body but there is still an advantage over that of a cisgendered female competator.
I think that its a very tough subject that were probably never going to understand fully because we dont do the sport ourselves. needless to say its a good topic.


Yeah, but the OP was talking about track, not tennis!--It's not like every single female player's going to be lesbian or TG.


true true was just sharing my view. we aint all bad people is all lol i see some think so on here but we aint lol
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Posted 8/20/16

nicoleami wrote:

I am transgender and though i may not agree with everyone opinions on here i do believe there is an unfair advantage in certain aspects. Yes hormone therapy does decrese muscle in the body and effectively weakens the body but there is still an advantage over that of a cisgendered female competator.
I think that its a very tough subject that were probably never going to understand fully because we dont do the sport ourselves. needless to say its a good topic.


From a "what can IOC do about this" angle, the unfortunate answer is probably "nothing even if the competition is unfair" because IOC already dug itself a hole by giving this competitive situation a pass in the first place. If they try remedying it again, they'd be liable to dig themselves an even bigger hole in yet another failed attempt at defining what a woman is. The situation is deadlocked.
Posted 8/20/16 , edited 8/20/16
Skeletal structure and muscle mass weigh in favor of discrimination. Hormonal treatment in postpubescents does not change the outcome of skeletal structure and muscle mass. Few prepubescents grow up with hormonal treatment, and with hormonal treatment it doesn't make for an effective change in skeletal structure and muscle mass. That said, the differences in muscle mass in particular is so minuscule I'm left but to wonder as to why genders are separated in terms of strength to begin with.

Besides, I honestly could not care less. Why does everything have to be a fucking competition... and down to minute detail? Do people really feel so inferior? How practical exactly is 'brute' strength in modern day society? And don't people have better things to do?
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Posted 8/20/16 , edited 8/20/16

Hrafna wrote:

Skeletal structure and muscle mass weigh in favor of discrimination. Hormonal treatment in postpubescents does not change the outcome of skeletal structure and muscle mass. Few prepubescents grow up with hormonal treatment, and with hormonal treatment it doesn't make for an effective change in skeletal structure and muscle mass. That said, the differences in muscle mass in particular is so minuscule I'm left but to wonder as to why genders are separated in terms of strength to begin with.

Besides, I honestly could not care less. Why does everything have to be a fucking competition... and down to minute detail? Do people really feel so inferior? How practical exactly is 'brute' strength in modern day society? And don't people have better things to do?


It's not muscle it's magic

But seriously, not everything is a competition but sports is as competitive as anything could ever be... It provides the most evidential route between skill, effort, and achievement. You could say that it matters so much because of all the ass-busting all the athletes go through in order to compete and be competitive. If it's all so easy, none of it would matter much to anyone.

p.s. and the glory, all that glory from winning
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Posted 8/20/16 , edited 8/20/16
No, they deserve the same rights as other women in all aspects but competition, by separating into events by gender then the Olympics have already long acknowledged that their are fundamental genetic differences between Men & Women.

The only solutions I see is to either only allow them into events that already allow both men & women to compete on the same stage or to create a separate event for transgender athletes, or else I fear we are just looking at a future where transgender women dominate the top ranks of their specific sport and regular women rivals might be faced with giving up their femininity by administering testosterone into their system just to stay competitive.
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24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 8/20/16
If Semenya has the skeletal structure of a man, then my answer is "no." The hips and legs of a men are structurally different from women, and markedly effect gait and stride. Chalk it up to women adapting a useful aid in bearing children that is suitable for our unique bipedalism. It just so happens that the adaptation comes with a catch.
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Posted 8/20/16
Who cares? The Olympics are some nonsensical sports spectacle designed to waste money and divert people's attention for literally no reason.

If you win, what does your country get? Oh, Right. Nothing.
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Posted 8/20/16
The olympics is all about how some people are more athletic than others so I think women should compete with men and anyone that wants to separate the results into different demographics can do so.
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Posted 8/20/16

Laura_Bodewig wrote:

Who cares? The Olympics are some nonsensical sports spectacle designed to waste money and divert people's attention for literally no reason.

If you win, what does your country get? Oh, Right. Nothing.


Diverting attention. Sounds like entertainment to me.
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Posted 8/20/16 , edited 8/20/16
I guess I'd like to see a "Trans" section in the Olympics.

Gender is no longer seen as binary any more, not just male and female - so a trans section would reflect that as well as be more fair.

-sorry if that was said before I cba reading it all
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Posted 8/20/16
Except SAs runner, Caster Semenya isn't a woman at all. She's a man with undescended testes. She is, and always has been, biologically male. This was actually discovered because she dominated in all of the olympic events she was in previously by such a huge margin that this controversy arose as far back as 2009, as far as journalistic sources go.

She isn't "trans" in anything but name. She has lived her entire life as a woman, but grew up male. To those stating "muscular and skeletal structure don't change from post pubescent hormone treatments," you're absolutely correct. She never underwent therapy. She's experienced the developmental benefits of higher testosterone levels for her entire life. In terms of her league, she's effectively been on steroids in the womens league for the past 25 years or so now.
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Posted 8/20/16
I find it funny how the Olympics is a world-wide event involving countries all over the world and the US is making a big deal about adding their form of "fairness" into this event. Goes to show how much some people in this country try so hard to push their ideals into an event.

No, I don't agree with mixing the 2. As stated, there are biological differences. This does not compare to the obvious mental status of "I'm in the wrong body" because, biologically and in this real world, you're in that body and that's that. Mental =/= physical
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20 / M / Imoutoland!
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Posted 8/20/16 , edited 8/20/16
I don't see why we don't just group people together and say "you must be capable of lifting 40 lbs regardless of gender". Perhaps sports are different than how I see the military.

Perhaps there is a point if we are going to separate by gender.
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30 / M / Ontario
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Posted 8/20/16
Heres the thing, they already have testing to determine if their testosterone is too high (i think 3 X that of an average woman) they cannot compete as a female.

To say no would again segregate trans gendered people from the rest of society. Last time i checked the olympics is about inclusion.

The irony to that is these women needs to take estrogen or other drugs to make sure they are able to compete..
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Posted 8/20/16

xIrishchickx wrote:

I guess I'd like to see a "Trans" section in the Olympics.

Gender is no longer seen as binary any more, not just male and female - so a trans section would reflect that as well as be more fair.

-sorry if that was said before I cba reading it all :P


Yeah. Just like there is a Paralympics there should be a Transolympics.
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