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Post Reply Should full-face veils and burqas be banned?
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 8/28/16

MrAnimeSK wrote:

Yes.
Potential security threat.
Makes it pretty impossible to intergrate.
Could make others feel uneasy or un safe.
Impossible to be identified (say if a crime was commited or something of the like).
It's a double standard (you cant walk around in crowded malls or a bank wearing a motor cycle helmet or a balaclave or a ninja outfit or a medi evil suit of armor, etc).



if your not in a mall i don't see a problem if i want to wear a mask on the streets i should be allowed to for instance.
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25 / M / NYC Metro Area
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Posted 8/28/16
Might technically be constitutional, but allowing women to be treated as property is not compatible with Western Values.
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Posted 8/28/16 , edited 8/28/16

Xxanthar wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:

Yes.
Potential security threat.
Makes it pretty impossible to intergrate.
Could make others feel uneasy or un safe.
Impossible to be identified (say if a crime was commited or something of the like).
It's a double standard (you cant walk around in crowded malls or a bank wearing a motor cycle helmet or a balaclave or a ninja outfit or a medi evil suit of armor, etc).



^
Wear whatever you want around your home.


Well yeah, if they want to wear it while they're at home then yeah i have no problem with that. You seem to misunderstand that they dont wear it at home (unless other male guests are over probably?), they wear it out in public.
And if they want to wear it in an Islamic country or in their own communites and mosques then i have no isssue with it at all. But amoungst the rest of us i personally do.


BlueOni wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:

Yes.
Potential security threat.
Makes it pretty impossible to intergrate.
Could make others feel uneasy or un safe.
Impossible to be identified (say if a crime was commited or something of the like).
It's a double standard (you cant walk around in crowded malls or a bank wearing a motor cycle helmet or a balaclave or a ninja outfit or a medievil suit of armor, etc).


You don't have to ban burqas and such to resolve any security concerns. Petrol stations, liquor stores, financial institutions' branches, and other hot targets for robberies could privately require that a niqab (the face mask portion of veils often worn by conservative fundamentalist Muslims) be removed while allowing a customer to keep her hijab (the head scarf) on while on the premises, which is different from banning Muslims' face veils outright.

Meanwhile, those institutions can also protect employees and customers by doing things like:

- Keeping a limited amount of cash on site and announcing that this is the policy on visibly posted signs.
- Setting up bulletproof windows at counters.
- Installing security cameras.
- Putting rulers on the frames of entrances and exits to get height estimates for all comers.
- Keeping half the doors locked at all times.
- Hiring private security officers to protect the premises either during business hours and/or after closing.
- Closing the main lobby and requiring customers to perform drive-through or walk-up window transactions at night.
- Installing silent alarms.

Other articles of clothing that are commonly worn by robbers such as sunglasses, hoodies, and bandanas aren't banned even if they can't be worn in petrol stations and such due to institutional policies, and they don't need to be banned either. Less restrictive, perfectly reasonable measures can be taken there, and these same measures can be taken for niqabs and burqas. There is no need to ban them outright in public spaces, and to do so runs contrary to the institution of free exercise of religion. I'd no more stand for that than I would for banning Catholic nuns' habits or Orthodox Jews' shtreimels in public spaces.



Well, that's all good in theory and in rainbow marshmellow land. However, they would not agree to that. They would refuse and call racisim and Islamaphobia at the suggestion.

Plus, all those things that you mentioned are already in place. Also why should companies and buisnesses have to pay more for extra security just so Muslim women can walk around completetly unidentifiable and possibly carrying god knows what?

Well i dont wear sunglasses in doors like a dick head myself so.....
And well i've never seen a nun in public EV ER. Literally. Not once in my life. Honest to god.


Ryulightorb wrote:





if your not in a mall i don't see a problem if i want to wear a mask on the streets i should be allowed to for instance.


I guess out on the street is not so bad. But yeah, in a crowded areas i dont think it should be allowed. I guess in places where they've been checked with metal dectors first (not just them, i mean events or places where everyone is checked upon entry) would be ok.
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Posted 8/28/16
The only reason why most people are making a big deal out of this is because of their preconceived notions about Muslims ... And "who knows what they're hiding in their burkas"

I walked into to my work district with a surgical mask on cause I was sick, no one gave a fuck what I was hiding in there and what crimes I could have committed while wearing one
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Posted 8/28/16

FlyinDumpling wrote:
I walked into to my work district with a surgical mask on cause I was sick, no one gave a fuck what I was hiding in there and what crimes I could have committed while wearing one
yes and no...
you still could see a lot of other clues can't you?
ofc if the whole head is covered, one would be doubtful of that person?
Sure some might get a bit too negative around the burka thing, as its a negative thing in general (as fully clothed around the head as well, to the "rules" to follow).
+ the fact it makes other negative as well.
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Posted 8/28/16 , edited 8/28/16

FlyinDumpling wrote:

The only reason why most people are making a big deal out of this is because of their preconceived notions about Muslims ... And "who knows what they're hiding in their burkas"

I walked into to my work district with a surgical mask on cause I was sick, no one gave a fuck what I was hiding in there and what crimes I could have committed while wearing one


It's not just that. There was an incident here where a police officer pulled over a female Muslim driver (i forget the details) , he needed her to revome her hijab so that he could match her with her drivers license/photo ID(identify her) and she refused and cried victim and racisim and made false claims.
Thankfully it was all caught on dash board camera.

I cant remember if it was a seperate case or the same woman but she did not want to remove it at her court appearence either.
Of course you cant appear in court covered up. if you could you could just send anyone in there and not even appear in court.

So you're wrong. At least partly. Yes i admit, if one of them got on the bus i would feel un easy and i would get off. Even though i know it's pretty unlikely shes a terrorist but i mean why should i have to feel like that and why take the chance?
What a shit way to go that'd be. I rather die fighting if i was going to get killed.

But it's also the double standard and the special treatment. It shows that they dont have any intentions of intergrating and have any respect of our laws.
Like others have said, if you go to their countires(Islamic ones) you HAVE to abide. There is no choice. In non Islamic countries you have choice, this is true but we cant allow people to break our laws or cause people to feel un easy or create a possible security threat just because it might offend someone if we dont.

You could make the whole bigot, Islamaphobe, Media brain washed idiot argument, just as i could say that your sense of morality or your fear of being racist(possible white guilt) or insensitive or offensive effects your common sense and realisticness.
You'd prefer to have your home land feel less like home or less safe in order to prevent maybe offending someone?

Surely you at least agree that they shouldn't be able to wear them in banks?

EDIT: oh and what sort of gun or sword or bomb could you have stored in your surgical mask?
Posted 8/28/16
The only problem I see here is how such freedoms can be used by others as an opportunity to do harm. There really is no telling who is under that veil or what they may or may not be hiding. It's difficult to not be suspicious or feel threatened just as I would seeing someone walking around with a full ski mask in the middle of summer.
Posted 8/28/16
if they want wear who cares here is what i think when it comes to security they need to follow rules like airports etc.
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Posted 8/28/16

Xxanthar wrote:


Southern55 wrote:

Integrating or assimilating? The whole beauty (or intended beauty at least) of America is being able to come over here and live as you choose without fear of oppression. If you're going to ban burqa's then you would have to ban any other clothing that is deemed "un-american".

Disclaimer: After typing this I noticed the article you posted was about Europe. And so I'd like to make clear that my argument is limited to the US only.


So then if burqa's are allowed do we allow ski masks, bandanas, Halloween masks, kkk hoods, and paper bags with eye slits in banks and shops?


That's a completely different discussion though. There's a difference between all out banning something (as was suggested) and restricting a specific place. There's always the drive through. Even then I'm iffy on banning someone's religious attire in a bank or shop. Nothing you mentioned is required to be worn in public at all times by their affiliated activities.

And while I can't say I visit banks very often I've seen plenty of Muslim women with their face covered in shops and had no issue with that.

Freedom > Security
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Posted 8/28/16

MrAnimeSK wrote:

It's not just that. There was an incident here where a police officer pulled over a female Muslim driver (i forget the details) , he needed her to revome her hijab so that he could match her with her drivers license/photo ID(identify her) and she refused and cried victim and racisim and made false claims.
Thankfully it was all caught on dash board camera.

I cant remember if it was a seperate case or the same woman but she did not want to remove it at her court appearence either.
Of course you cant appear in court covered up. if you could you could just send anyone in there and not even appear in court.

So you're wrong. At least partly. Yes i admit, if one of them got on the bus i would feel un easy and i would get off. Even though i know it's pretty unlikely shes a terrorist but i mean why should i have to feel like that and why take the chance?
What a shit way to go that'd be. I rather die fighting if i was going to get killed.

But it's also the double standard and the special treatment. It shows that they dont have any intentions of intergrating and have any respect of our laws.
Like others have said, if you go to their countires(Islamic ones) you HAVE to abide. There is no choice. In non Islamic countries you have choice, this is true but we cant allow people to break our laws or cause people to feel un easy or create a possible security threat just because it might offend someone if we dont.

You could make the whole bigot, Islamaphobe, Media brain washed idiot argument, just as i could say that your sense of morality or your fear of being racist(possible white guilt) or insensitive or offensive effects your common sense and realisticness.
You'd prefer to have your home land feel less like home or less safe in order to prevent maybe offending someone?

Surely you at least agree that they shouldn't be able to wear them in banks?

EDIT: oh and what sort of gun or sword or bomb could you have stored in your surgical mask? :P
It isn't a double standard, it's religous freedom. Making a religous attire illgeal to wear doesn't make sense because simply wearing it doesn't break the law. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the hijab is not the same as the burqa, which covers the face. There is no reason why someone would need to remove their hijab if they can be easily identified with it on.

FYI in many states, and no doubt in the South, concealed carry is legal. It's ironic since I'm sure the idea of a Muslim person carrying a concealed weapon under their burqa would scares some people shitless enough that they'd welcome anti-gun legislation.
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Posted 8/28/16
I have just as much right to see your face as you have to see mine. Many banks and government buildings ban any sort of face covering. I all for free practice but the point of the burka is to sham the woman, there is no Quranic justification for it at all.
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Posted 8/28/16
No ban on face veils. Hurts no one except 'needing' to identify someone.
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Posted 8/28/16
It always frustrates me when people associate the full face veil, be it a Niqab or Burqa, with Islam; there is absolutely nothing in the Qur'an which states a woman must keep her face covered, and that she should be unseen. What it does state is that women should dress modestly while not with their family which, keep in mind when the book was written, could well have been Mohammed asking scantily clad women he saw walking down the street to put some damn clothes on!

Fundamentalists always take religious concepts to extremes and as such it has become a cultural norm in some countries where fundamentalist Islam has become a part of the expectations of the country for this requirement of modesty to mean SHOW NOTHING!!! but if somewhere such as the UK, the US, France, Australia or wherever else decides that the face should not be hidden unless strictly necessary (such as when riding a motorcycle), it is not right to be able to use an extreme interpretation of something as benign as a suggestion to "dress modestly" as grounds to overrule that.
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Posted 8/28/16
i feel full body/face ones should be banned for various reasons. such as it makes it harder for people to talk to someone with one since can't see them, it is a legitimate sexist based tradition that dehumanizes girls and I've heard some arguments for the reason they are used that's pretty insulting to guys as well, as well as makes it harder to track criminals if they are were those being a few of the main reasons why i don't like them.
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Posted 8/28/16
If other face coverings are illegal (which they are in many countries, typically for security reasons), then this should apply to religious coverings also.

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