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Post Reply Good Bye Pump and Dump Anime
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Posted 9/4/16
Disgusting trend? not really.

It's the nature of the beast. Would I have liked some series to continue? Sure,

I think Kadokawa has done an excellent job with the Fate / Kaleid series by having it come out once a year, they avoid the animation decline of a continuing series (Silver Link has been outstanding on 3rei this year). We should be getting at least one more season of it too.

Production Committees front all this money for shows so they might not want to continue if the show isn't giving them an adequate Return of Investment, or they may not want to continue if the shows Good Will has been lost even though it made them money (which is why High School DxD may not get a Season 4)
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Posted 9/4/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


This part may sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, but I feel as though the consumer-blaming mentality is the result of manipulative tactics by producers to play on the emotions of consumers and soften their reluctance to spend money. Incidentally, my way of thinking has actually made me rather more reluctant to spend money on entertainment, but that's also beside the point.

Lel. That is a conspiracy theory. And it's not true; if anything, it's the opposite.

Most people don't feel the need to support shows they like. Whether because they don't like it enough, or because they think that it's popular enough to do well without them.


Here is the reason I don't similarly chalk it up as a simple conspiracy theory.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing

Marketing is the communication between a company and the consumer audience that aims to increase the value of the company or its merchandise, or to raise the profile of the company and its products in the public mind. The purpose of marketing is to induce behavioral change in the receptive audience.[1] The American Marketing Association has defined marketing as "the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large." [2]

The techniques used in marketing include choosing target markets through market analysis and market segmentation, as well as understanding methods of influence on the consumer behavior.

From a societal point of view, marketing provides the link between a society's material requirements and its economic patterns of response. This way marketing satisfies these needs and wants through the development of exchange processes and the building of long-term relationships.


That is to say, nearly half of the idea behind marketing is essentially a mass manipulation (or perhaps persuasion, to use a somewhat less negative term) of consumer markets to convince consumers that your product is worth buying. In the entertainment industry, I could easily see this strategy being employed to combat consumer reluctance and consumer boycotts. Convince the consumer they are the problem, or rather the reason why producers can't make what the consumer wants. It flips the relationship on its head. Instead of the consumer holding the producer responsible for producing what they want before they buy, the producer promises to deliver what the consumer wants after they build up the funds, which they can only get if the consumer buys what they don't want. The problem with this idea is that the producer can't possibly deliver exactly what the consumer wants because they have so many other consumers who want entirely different things.

On the other hand, I definitely agree that complaining and boycotting is simply not going to help in this case. What the OP wants is something that is quite literally not achievable. If there was such a large market for long-running anime series, then I have complete faith that more producers would start moving in that direction. There is no way that a production company can support the entirety of a long-running series unless consumers are willing to buy in installments and remain invested. Thus, the reason why the industry is marketed the way that it is is simply because the majority of consumers prefer it to be this way, whether they believe it or not. I can see that the crux of the OP's argument is not that he wants more long-running series, but rather that he wants his particular favorites (shows with "a lot of promise") to be long-running series, and that he'd still refuse to fund my favorites and your favorites (shows that may or may not have "BS filler" or no closure) even if his favorites successfully became long-running series. Every other consumer is likely going to feel the same way. It's a completely unreasonable demand.

But he is doing the right thing by refusing to buy what he doesn't want and searching other markets for the things that he does want. The truth is that the anime industry has been largely unable to support his demands, regardless of the amount of money that he individually puts into the industry. So in spite of how I personally feel about anime, I outright refuse to make him feel guilty for not buying. Instead, I say more power to him.
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Posted 9/4/16

rcsatcrunchyroll wrote:

Domvina has the right of it. Limited runs have been a hallmark of the anime medium almost since its creation.


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:
When's the last time you bought a BD or even just some merchandise?


*looks at shelf*

Most of the physical goods I have – aside from, say, JRPGs, with which I have been madly in love for decades – date to back before the Great DVD Crash of 2008, but I have been good about purchasing other things since then, especially manga (e.g. Monster Musume) and VNs (mostly via Steam). Light novels are far and away the trickiest source material to support due to a lack of localization.


A couple of thoughts

So How did Naruto / One Piece / Bleach / Inuyasha make multiple episodes?

And for Current Marcross / Gundham's as mainstays.( Yes differents versions )

How about Fate Illya ? Teeyku ? Milky Holmes They are kinda oddballs yey they march on!

There are some animes that could end eveythin in a 2nd season yet they fail to give us that !

For example Squig Girl /A Certain Magical Index never completed even though there are hints !

We thought Working was done but we have something new coming !

And I remember fitst watching anime Mamarade Boy 76 Episodes and Minami-ke 52 EPS and 3 OVA's

So Meultiple seasons have existed and will contine to even though it might be 24 / 26 EPS

I do agrre with the author's title though!
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Posted 9/4/16

d3v3l wrote:
There is this disgusting trend that I've just recently noticed within the anime community / writers / animators etc. First they will release a series - and regardless if it has a lot of promise or not - the show will have it's production stopped by the 20th or so episode and odds are you won't see or hear about that series again for the rest of your life.


Yes... there is, in fact, a trend where the people who make things will sometimes stop making those things and go make other things. And sometimes they will do this when you wanted them to keep making things! How very dare they.

Why, it is almost like you are not the boss of them or something. It appears that, for some reason, other people insistently continue having their own ideas and plans that have nothing at all to do with you... even when you don't like those ideas and plans!

They don't even ASK whether it's okay with you for them to go do other things. That is just plain rude.
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Posted 9/4/16
I don't quite understand the OP here. Is he complaining about anime that's intended to only be a single season? Or is he complaining about open-ended anime that just gets cut off after one season? Or both?

There's a lot of anime running 25 episodes or less that were designed with a solid plot, and a solid ending. A single story. I like that kind of anime. The open-ended stuff is fine, but it's episodic, or soap opera. There's also anime that has a new story each season, like Sailor Moon. Variety is good. For a lot of anime, it wouldn't make sense to keep going. The plot has been resolved.

Then of course there's anime that's mainly there to advertise manga, games or light novels, and don't contain a complete story. I can understand being annoyed about that.
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Posted 9/4/16
I'm okay with a series running for 25 episodes, especially when it has a story format for this. There's no way I'm spending my time keeping up with series that churn out hundreds of episodes some of which will be filler episodes. I also don't stick with any tv drama or soap opera for years and year either. There's a lot shows that I'd considered ruined because they didn't know when to stop.
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Posted 9/4/16

FLjerry2011 wrote:
A couple of thoughts




Are you replying to what I said, Jerry, or are you replying to the topic creator? Because ... nothing you said has anything to do with what I posted. Possible misquote?
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Posted 9/4/16 , edited 9/4/16

d3v3l wrote:

There is this disgusting trend that I've just recently noticed within the anime community / writers / animators etc. First they will release a series - and regardless if it has a lot of promise or not - the show will have it's production stopped by the 20th or so episode and odds are you won't see or hear about that series again for the rest of your life. For some of the very promising series - I've noticed that the writers will sometimes deliberately sabotage their own series just so the company can dump the series and start pumping on another. Rarely will you see production of a series go beyond 25-30 episodes and when you do it will most likely stop around the 40 to 50 mark. Even more rare will you see a series that goes beyond a 100.

I don't like watching series that end so soon. I don't like getting emotionally invested in a series (which is what happens when you're 20 episodes deep or so) - and then to just have it fucking stopped because the writers decided to stop writing, or were told they have to work on another project. Or have the writers do something in the story that makes the rest of the series look bad / not fun to watch - ends up stopping production.

It is this lack of consistency and commitment that I find infuriating and disappointing. For this reason I don't think I will be watching anime like I have been. I'll keep my eye out for new series from time to time (when they are complete) - and if the said completed series is more than 100 episodes I'll think about actually spending my time and watching it - after I have read the reviews - and have made certain it isn't full of BS filler, or leave you hanging at the end with no fucking closure. I'll especially stay away from the typical run of the mill pump and dump series that I have been witnessing from the passing years.

You piss off your target audience enough - you'll start seeing more people like me putting their money in other forms of entertainment. Many regular US TV series / shows have more longevity now on average when compared to anime. How fucking sad and pathetic is that?

I know that Crunchyroll does not control the content it streams - as the main service the website provides is the ability to watch the series online easily from your home instead of having to buy it on DVD or torrent it or whatever - but even then that does not mean the producers of these shows do not have the website's ear. I would not be surprised to hear that a portion of the income this company makes goes towards the content providers directly. I am fairly certain they will start wondering why their consumer base isn't going as well as they hoped sometime in the future if my predictions are correct (or I am not the only one who has this opinion).

Or who knows - maybe I am completely wrong and I am in the minority here. Maybe most of you love watching series after series that end abruptly, stop without closure, or filled with filler episodes making you wonder if the money you're paying your monthly fee's on are worth these kinds of episodes and shows. If so then please keep on doing business as usual and completely ignore what I am saying / continue watching these shows that you love.

Me? I'll be spending my time and money on other forms of entertainment from now on .


So you want series to be what...100+ episodes? Because most writers aren't skilled enough to keep something like that fresh.

As others have said, it's the nature of the beast. Sure, it sucks when something you like gets cut short and you want to see more...I think we've all been there, myself included. But if something isn't selling, then it's only natural to move on.

And some series that get adapted might only have a limited amount of material to adapt from so...you get the runs with 12 episodes or less. Otherwise, as I'm sure some of us have seen with Naruto and Bleach, you get filler arcs up the wazoo and nine out of ten times, they're not that good.


If you want to see more diversity and longer series...there's a few manga titles out there that you might like.
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Posted 9/4/16

rcsatcrunchyroll wrote:


FLjerry2011 wrote:
A couple of thoughts




Are you replying to what I said, Jerry, or are you replying to the topic creator? Because ... nothing you said has anything to do with what I posted. Possible misquote?


Yea I think was just qouting the whole post / nothinh against you just my thoughts. I am a liitle sick today and running a fever so I may be out of it a bit / No DR until Tuesday
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38 / M / Charlotte, NC
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Posted 9/6/16
I don't think this is a new trend; it's basically been like this since the OAV boom in the 80s- with the main difference that today it's actually more cost-effective to produce at least a dozen episodes (and the studios have actual budgets- and networks have multiple channels dedicated to airing anime with an established fanbase) compared with 30 years ago when a pilot project based on some obscure manga or written by a small group of fanboys- might only get a 45 minute video. There are just dozens of one-shot 45 minute OAVs out there- they could not get aired on any network so were sold off the shelf.
Nowadays you are getting at least a dozen episodes, aired on TV in Japan and streamed over here for cheap. I disagree that there isn't sufficient funding or merchandise sales dooming most of these series to limited runs: a great deal of them are clearly planned out to just 12 or 24 episodes from the start. The industry is clearly looking for as many new titles as possible to air on TV each season- and can't get enough material. As a result they are green-lighting projects with dubious source material or are making anime out of video games, which is about the most low-risk, low-effort, unimaginative copout there could be. What's the point of making an anime out of a reasonably animated video game? What's even the point in watching it if you've already played the game and why are the two being mixed? I am disappointed that the medium that grew out of manga is being taken over by games.
No matter the source I would rather watch a 12 episode show that is written with an ending planned from the start. A good story should not need more than 12 episodes to be told, and by 24 most have completed a story arc. These 100s episode series have multiple arcs and a lot of them like One Piece or Fairy Tail really don't have a very good story line it just goes all over the place and diverges into sub-plots because they are made up as they go along. The network wants those shows to keep pumping out episodes, and in those series are what I'd call pump and dump. Just pumping out episode after episode, a lot of it just filler. If you can't tell a good story in a couple hours worth of air time, then I'm not as interested. I want to see a story, and most stories can be told in one cour. This forces the writers to leave out filler material and resist distractions- those who fail try to throw together a rushed wrap-up in the last episode. Obviously not all of them are going to be good. Most of my favorite series are no more than 25 episodes. The ones that are longer have multiple arcs.
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Posted 9/6/16
I watch anime largely because each series doesn't last for years and years. If I watch an anime, I know that they are often designed to tell a certain story and they will end when the story is done. Its not going to drag on for years, stretching the material thin until it ultimately runs itself off a cliff.

Also, the ending is the most important part of a series. Not giving an ending and just dragging on to infinity...well it sucks.
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Posted 9/8/16
SMH got kicked to this thread
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Posted 9/8/16
This is exactly the reason I barely watch anime anymore. I'd rather read the manga where the chapters are constantly coming.
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Posted 9/12/16
they don't know how much it hurts not to have a second season ;-; It's like taking a part of your life, and removing it in 20 seconds, it is not a matter of me getting bored, it's a matter of me not doing anything after it ends, like Y, BICH Y, but tbh some series's are meant to be short, but at least finish it. not leave a cliff hanger then leave.
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Posted 9/12/16
Ranma 1/2 lasted seven seasons, and I thought it was too short. There was still a lot of manga stories left to tell.

Claymore lasted one season, and I thought the ending cut off the story badly. The main plots of the series were never resolved, as they were in the manga. They should have left things open for another season or two.

Code Geass lasted two seasons, which was perfect. The plot was resolved nicely. Stretching it out any more would have been a waste of time.

Inuyasha lasted seven seasons, and I thought both the anime and the manga lasted way too long. The plot could have been resolved far more quickly.

Trigun was one season, which was just fine. It strayed from the manga a bit, but it resolved the plot nicely. Okay, there was a relatively recent special, but still.

Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Twelve episodes, no filler, excellent plot resolution. Perfect. Nothing more needed. Oh wait, then there was the Rebellion movie. Darn, now I need more.

Different shows are different. Variety is good.
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