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Post Reply anybody know what krautrock is?
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Posted 9/12/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)
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Posted 9/12/16

Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it
486 cr points
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17 / M
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Posted 9/13/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


LOL Those pretty much the gateway to krautrock as a whole, I would argue.
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Posted 9/13/16

Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


LOL Those pretty much the gateway to krautrock as a whole, I would argue.


I listened to heroes last night. it was an amazing album.
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Posted 9/16/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.
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Posted 9/16/16

Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.


Low was a brilliant album. I think the whole genre of krautrock needed a master songwriter like bowie to take a stab at it and see what he could do. Really took things in a different direction
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Posted 9/17/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.


Low was a brilliant album. I think the whole genre of krautrock needed a master songwriter like bowie to take a stab at it and see what he could do. Really took things in a different direction


Yeah, I think it brought Krautrock to a much broader audience, too, for the time.
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Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.


Low was a brilliant album. I think the whole genre of krautrock needed a master songwriter like bowie to take a stab at it and see what he could do. Really took things in a different direction


Yeah, I think it brought Krautrock to a much broader audience, too, for the time.


hey, have you heard of this prog band gentle giant? I've been listening to some of their stuff and i like what i hear.
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Posted 9/17/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.


Low was a brilliant album. I think the whole genre of krautrock needed a master songwriter like bowie to take a stab at it and see what he could do. Really took things in a different direction


Yeah, I think it brought Krautrock to a much broader audience, too, for the time.


hey, have you heard of this prog band gentle giant? I've been listening to some of their stuff and i like what i hear.


Oh, I've heard of them, alright. I only heard one song of theirs from Pandora Radio (can't remember the name of it, though), and I was definitely impressed with what I've heard. I'm also aware of the infamous "complexity" they've got going for them (moreso than a lot of prog bands, even for the time). I NEED to get into them sooner or later.
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Posted 9/17/16

Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.


Low was a brilliant album. I think the whole genre of krautrock needed a master songwriter like bowie to take a stab at it and see what he could do. Really took things in a different direction


Yeah, I think it brought Krautrock to a much broader audience, too, for the time.


hey, have you heard of this prog band gentle giant? I've been listening to some of their stuff and i like what i hear.


Oh, I've heard of them, alright. I only heard one song of theirs from Pandora Radio (can't remember the name of it, though), and I was definitely impressed with what I've heard. I'm also aware of the infamous "complexity" they've got going for them (moreso than a lot of prog bands, even for the time). I NEED to get into them sooner or later.


they aren't too complex. They are unique to some other prog bands though. A lot of their songs have some violin, sax, and other insturments mixed in with the complex songwriting. What you need to do is go on spotify and give their first album and the album in a glass house a listen. DO IT! DO IT NOW!
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sena3927 wrote:

The Fall's most accessible album could be This Nation's Saving Grace or maybe a couple others from their mid-80's period. Hearing that stuff was what first turned me on to them, but now it feels rather bland (for The Fall) and seems like the record label was trying to tame their music and make it into something more commercial. Now I tend to prefer albums like Hex Enduction Hour and Your Future Our Clutter, but I love all of it. The beauty of the "Fall sound" is that it's always evolving and changing.

David Thomas from Pere Ubu had a fun little side project with The Wooden Birds called Monster Walks the Winter Lake. Good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YpT9BNFMd0


Have you heard of gang of four before?
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Posted 9/18/16

electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:


electricdoomfire wrote:


Progrockdude wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of it, but I'm not familiar with it, unfortunately. It's basically the German equivalent of whole progressive rock scene going on in the UK going on at the time. They moved on to the more electronic side of this spectrum as the decade went on, as it is also shown in groups like Tangerine Dream. The early Pink Floyd sound was a big influence in regards to their avant-garde and space rock ventures, too, and helped the foreground for electronic music in general, whether it be ambient soundscapes from someone like Brian Eno or to something like EDM which was pioneered in songs like Donna Summer's "I Feel Love," which was in effect a huge influence on both Eno and David Bowie during their Berlin period, with the former claiming it would change the sound of club music for the next several years, which is kind of true. I highly respect the achievements this particular sub-genre gained for music in general just for that.


I don't know that I can completely agree with you on the notion that krautrock shared similarities with the prog rock scene. The only band that I can think of that can compete with the likes of groups like pink Floyd, king crimson, etc is CAN. From the bare surface of groups like faust of kraftwerk, most of it seems to be experimental rock. i believe that there is a difference between experimental and progressive rock.

For instance, I watched a sort of documentary on the genre and the idea behind krautrock was producing a sort of never ending wave of sound. The idea behind krautrock itself seems to be blending a bunch of sounds into one, traditional rock sounds blending with electronica, while progressive rock is about abrupt shifts, chord progressions, changing key signatures, etc. As far as electronic music is concerned, the credit has to go to kraftwerk. Revolutionary as kraftwerk was though, I find that most of their sound while being experimental is repetitive and lackluster.

For instance, if you listen to the song Hallogallo by a band called NEU!, it is straight up ten minutes worth of music with a repetitive drum and guitar progression with no lyrics. The same type of drum beat used in that song is apparently the same kind of drum beat that is a component of other songs of other bands. I respect the genre itself, but I am hoping for more instrumentally than some average instrumentation and indulgent experimentation. For instance, Can seems to be a group that stands out while having some musical chops. I hope I can find other bands such as that.


But here's the thing. Krautrock is revolutionary, and by definition, progressive in its essence. This is not just for rock, mind you! I mean, Kraftwerk used to have a big rock influence in their sound up until Trans-Europe Express among other bands of the time. Krautrock is usually also considered to be more in the "prog rock" umbrella mainly due to this indulgent experimentation that sometimes takes a whole side of a record, and how forward-looking these two genres really were for the time. I don't feel like progressive rock is just the description you state it is. I feel that it makes that more a niche, than say, actually progressive. This is one of the reasons why I tend to prefer the classic prog material from the late 60s to the late 70s, mainly because it was innovative for its time before it got out of the public eye (although I disagree with that notion with the whole art pop/art rock and the birth of the neo-progressive rock movement in the 80s and such). Progressive rock bands do tend to go to experimental tendencies, like Frank Zappa and King Crimson in their early periods, as well as, I would argue, Miles Davis during his jazz fusion period from the late 60s (In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, etc.) Progressive and experimental music aren't necessarily as separate as you think they might be.


Okay, krautrock was revolutionary. However, can you say something was progressive because it was revolutionary?. Think about punk rock. Punk rock simplified music down to a core basic level. Is that considered progressive when a good portion of punk rock is a few chords played really fast? Note. I realize there is more to the genre than just that, I do love punk rock btw. There is a difference between being experimental or progressive and just having those tendencies. Was the velvet underground considered progressive because they were doing something new? I wouldn't say so. Progressive rock does involve innovation, but there is a difference between being avant-gard, which is what a lot of kraut rock is, and progressive.

Looking at the notable names of krautrock, I see a lot of nice experimentation, but not a lot of substance. If you name a progressive band, then you don't typically hear complaints of there being a lack of substance. I find that krautrock itself is only progressive in the loosest sense of the word. I could fill up half a song with amp static, but would I be classified as progressive? I wouldn't think so. I would be considered more avant-gard.

sorry if I seem to be putting a lot of bias into my statements, but we may have different interpretations of what progressive music is. Groups like kraftwerk incorporated a sound that wasn't heard before, but I don't believe that makes them progressive. Progressive music means advancing song writing and musical instruments and compositions as a whole. Just doing something new doesn't make you progressive. It means that you had a good idea and went with it. Without the musical chops and songwriting ability to back it up, then some bands just don't make the cut for me. I will give credit where it is due. Krautrock was important, but I find that the bands and songwriters that came after these bands did more for the concepts they incepted than they did.

In conclusion, experimental/progressiveness can coexist and apply to one another. That is extremely true. I just find the krautrock itself leans more to one side of the spectrum than the other.


I guess we kind of do have different interpretations, and I totally agree with krautrock being more on the experimental, electronic side of the spectrum than anything. I think this is also due to how we both view this particular genre. You mainly found it to be of style over substance, while I, although not really that well versed into it, am still interested and want to hear what these guys have to offer. And here's the thing about punk rock: I understand its short-lived intentions in what it was trying to do (which, in my opinion, ended up failing in the long run), but the reason why I say the experimentation put in stuff like krautrock and other forms of progressive music is that it is expanding on what music can be and NOT just the whole bass, guitar, drums, and vocals kind of approach. There's also probably the most important thing regarding the whole thing, which is the execution. The best kind of originality is FAR AND AWAY the 10/10 execution of it. We can either have something like Future Days, Ummagumma (which isn't bad, but not the best thing in the world), or.......... one of Lennon and Yoko's late 60s/early 70s output (I'd rather stay away from that topic *gulps*). Of course, the "simple but effective" approach is CERTAINLY not a bad thing, OH HELLLLLLL NO!!!!!! I mean, shit, even a lot of these progressive, experimental, avant-garde, and/or electronic artists certainly know that, and were inspired by all what early rock 'n' roll and other simple forms of music that were on top of the game at the time. That's where I'm getting at in regards to being experimental can be more progressive, because, when done right, it can lead to a huge amount of benefits for both music and its fans and lead the way for a lot more creativity in the future. I mean, "progressive pop" does exist, too, you know.


Don't get me wrong, I know what a huge impact the krautrock movement has had on music. Electronic music wouldn't be as advanced today if not for these bands. It just makes me a little disappointed by what I have heard already. Besides CAN, most of these german bands just don't seem to match up. I mean you had so many different british bands and American bands that just pushed the boundaries of music in so many different ways. Sure, they used the basic band format (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) etc, but they expanded upon the music with the songwriting and instrumental compositions. When I look at the pantheon of revolutionary bands and artists from that same period as the guys from Germany, I can't help but be a little disappointed. Sure, Kraftwerk revolutionized the use of electronic equipment with music, but what really did they do in terms of songwriting? Unless you are a hardcore fan, I'd imagine more than a bit of their discography is a little forgettable.

Credit should be given to these bands who started the trend, but I think that bands after them did more with their sound than they actually did. I look at people like gary numan, the cars, blondie,all the way to daft punk and lcd soundsystem and I think that those people did something interesting and unique. They didn't just create musical experiments, but they created songs, commercial although they were. It just felt like something that could have been bigger than it was but it wasn't. Overall, it was great for something that came out of Germany at the time and for the innovation that inspired later acts. However, I think Krautrock itself might be self-contained in a period of time where what the music was took precedent over the bands or the music that was actually written and recorded.


And that's cool that you feel that way. Like a lot of progressive music just like this genre, it's not for everybody. I just sometimes like to go for something that isn't really commercial (whether it's still a song or a piece, you know), especially in terms of those goddamn pop charts. Sure, they usually can get it right some of the time, but DEFINITELY not all. That's how it has always been. Having both commercial appeal and artistic merit is the best kind of balance any artist can try to achieve. Just look at Roxy Music and/or Kate Bush, for example (recently been looking into their stuff, especially the former. I'm really digging it so far. Hell, I'm listening to the former's debut for the first time as we speak, LOL.)


i might as well give a listen to bowie's berlin trilogy while i'm at it


Definitely enjoyed what I heard from it. Of course the title track is an all time classic. I also dig the opening track, "Beauty and the Beast." The three-track "suite" on the second side was also a good treat. However, I'm probably more of a Low guy, myself.


Low was a brilliant album. I think the whole genre of krautrock needed a master songwriter like bowie to take a stab at it and see what he could do. Really took things in a different direction


Yeah, I think it brought Krautrock to a much broader audience, too, for the time.


hey, have you heard of this prog band gentle giant? I've been listening to some of their stuff and i like what i hear.


Oh, I've heard of them, alright. I only heard one song of theirs from Pandora Radio (can't remember the name of it, though), and I was definitely impressed with what I've heard. I'm also aware of the infamous "complexity" they've got going for them (moreso than a lot of prog bands, even for the time). I NEED to get into them sooner or later.


they aren't too complex. They are unique to some other prog bands though. A lot of their songs have some violin, sax, and other insturments mixed in with the complex songwriting. What you need to do is go on spotify and give their first album and the album in a glass house a listen. DO IT! DO IT NOW!


OKAY OKAY OKAY!!!!!!
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First, guys--- these towering quote pyramids are going crazy. Edit the quoted parts or put them in spoiler tags or something. =)


electricdoomfire wrote:


Have you heard of gang of four before?


Yeah, but never really got into them too much. I remember their first record, the tracks that stand out are "I Found That Essence Rare" and "Damaged Goods".

Another direction to explore would be the roots of krautrock and electronic music: Karlheinz Stockhausen. And other modern composers like Philip Glass and Steve Reich.
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Essential space rock: Hawkwind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg025Dzxy7s
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Posted 9/18/16

sena3927 wrote:

First, guys--- these towering quote pyramids are going crazy. Edit the quoted parts or put them in spoiler tags or something. =)


electricdoomfire wrote:


Have you heard of gang of four before?


Yeah, but never really got into them too much. I remember their first record, the tracks that stand out are "I Found That Essence Rare" and "Damaged Goods".

Another direction to explore would be the roots of krautrock and electronic music: Karlheinz Stockhausen. And other modern composers like Philip Glass and Steve Reich.


here is where you are wrong, the standout tracks are also not great men, glass, contact, at home he's a tourist, and love like anthrax. But what can i say, i love their first album a lot.
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