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Post Reply Should Anime get rid of fan service to appeal to western society
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Posted 9/16/16
When I started watching anime, I barely even noticed fanservice until people started pointing it out and complaining about it honestly. I didn't think of characters being portrayed sexually as any kind of negative, let alone something as significant as it apparently is. I think it makes people uncomfortable because they don't know how to deal with animated characters being portrayed like that, but it hardly differs from how any other medium portrays its content. Just look at how pop stars and Hollywood actors/actresses dress for public appearances, or how popular fashion is constantly showing more and more skin. We have popular movies that are purely about sexual relationships and movies that have nudity and debauchery. Orange is the New Black is one of the most popular shows around right now. If you've ever seen that, you know what I mean. Whether you personally like it or not, you have to admit that the moderately sexual nature of what's being portrayed in some anime isn't the main force that's pushing people away. It's the fact that can't seem to parallel this to what they already intake. For crying out loud, most of what people are even complaining is stuff like panty shots and large breasts, and that's not even going into the copious amounts of cut, shirtless guys that always seem to get left out of the conversation. I just hope people eventually get off their high horse about this kind of stuff.
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Posted 9/16/16
No. The only people complaining about fanservice are whiny teenagers and SJW's. They don't realize that if they turn their television sets away from Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network that 80% of everything made in America is also "fanservice". And so what? Sex and sexuality is a part of human nature, and it sells, so the animators don't give a fuck if a small minority of babies don't like it.
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Posted 9/16/16 , edited 9/16/16

weslamagne43 wrote:

I just hope people eventually get off their high horse about this kind of stuff.


There's no high horse needed about it, its simply a matter of wanting to have story be the focus and not how much fanservice can be shoved into a show. I want female characters that aren't reduced to eyecandy or are forced into positions where they're used for sex appeal, but actually appeal because of their motivations and story. That's not even going into the way certain things are used as purely fanservice with no actual weight /legitimacy given to them (same-sex relationships). Once upon a time I didn't care about fanservice because its was easily over-look able, then came shows like Valkyrie Drive: Mermaid that were basically softcore hentai because of how far down the rabbit hole the medium has dropped.


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:



I'm 30 years old, not an SJW as far as I know , and watch plenty of tv; yet still bring up issues with where fanservice and the medium are going. Also just because something is "human nature" doesn't mean it needs to be abused and even put out for the general public; there's a place for sex and sexuality to be explored in detail and its called hentai/porn. Implied sex is fine, but anything detailed shouldn't be in a non-hentai/porn.

May want to do some maturing before referring to others as "babies".
Posted 9/16/16

Kerst wrote:


NyxUlric wrote:

If they want to appeal to a Western audience, they'd have to make it in English, the names have to be westernized, which is never going to happen. Western audience don't like to read subs or familiarize themselves with foreign names that aren't European.

The setting will have to be completely different and the jokes would have to have a Western origin. In other words, it would no longer be anime.


Oh god don't westernize the named.
The western names for the character in YuGiOH GAH horrible.
Jounouchi/Joey
Hanzo/Trsitan
Anzu/Tea
Manjoume/Chazz
Judai/Jaden
BLEH


??
Why did they choose Tea? Who names their kid "Tea"?
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Posted 9/16/16

xCrimsonEX wrote:

I'm 30 years old, not an SJW as far as I know , and watch plenty of tv; yet still bring up issues with where fanservice and the medium are going. Also just because something is "human nature" doesn't mean it needs to be abused and even put out for the general public; there's a place for sex and sexuality to be explored in detail and its called hentai/porn. Implied sex is fine, but anything detailed shouldn't be in a non-hentai/porn.

May want to do some maturing before referring to others as "babies".

Go watch Rome or Game of Thrones and learn the difference between abuse of fanservice and some short 3 second panty shot every other episode.

And you are incorrect. Hentai and porn is for fapping to. Fanservice is there to attract the majority of the paying fanbase. And very rarely is fanservice in anime "detailed" unless you're watching an ecchi series.
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Posted 9/16/16 , edited 9/16/16

cdarklock wrote:


srlan23 wrote:

I was reading everything you posted I was just not quoting everything because I thought a 46 year-old man would be grown up enough to get it but it seems like I was wrong again.


No, I got it. Which is precisely why I SAID that I got it, and that pretending I didn't get it would be a total dick move.

Now, if you READ that, you are either too stupid to understand it... or you're a dick.

I don't really care which of those is true, because there's no point in discussing it with you either way.


Where did I get something wrong? In your first post you wrote that a lot of fanservice is usually included in bad shows but you also wrote this:


Now, not all fanservice works, but if (for example) you take some dramatic confrontation between two high school girls and drop the camera angle enough to see up their skirts... the confrontation is no less dramatic. The dialogue is no less well-written. The characters are no less complex.
If you personally can't get past the part where WE CAN SEE THEIR PANTSU, that is a problem for you personally and does not actually make the scene trash. You're just weird and have hangups.


In your second post you basically just repeat what you wrote in your first post.
The third post wasn't really more than an insult and post no. 4 was repeating yourself again but this time you at least admit that it's possible to ruin a scene with fanservice.

I responded by telling you why changing the angle (and yes, making decisions about how a scene is filmed is part of the director's job) can change a lot and why not enjoying it therefor isn't weird, why people who think a scene is ruined by it don't need help.
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Posted 9/16/16


I'm 30 years old, not an SJW as far as I know , and watch plenty of tv; yet still bring up issues with where fanservice and the medium are going. Also just because something is "human nature" doesn't mean it needs to be abused and even put out for the general public; there's a place for sex and sexuality to be explored in detail and its called hentai/porn. Implied sex is fine, but anything detailed shouldn't be in a non-hentai/porn.

May want to do some maturing before referring to others as "babies".

What point would it serve to draw an arbitrary boundary as to how much sexuality can be displayed in show? Shows that only imply sex lack a certain value of immersion that many viewers seek. Shows that detail just sex display people as even more base sexual figures than the anime people are concerned with. The show I mentioned before, OITB, displays a great dichotomy of both fanservice and content, and it's wildly popular. If your concern is the level of content, then by all means, raise your voice about lack of content, but I think the level of fanservice in an individual show is relatively inconsequential as to whether or people can actually stomach it. The audience has already proven that it will accept sexuality itself on a spectrum of purity to porn. I wouldn't blame the medium for variety of content, I would just watch shows within my set of preferences.
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Posted 9/16/16 , edited 9/16/16
Well thank the Lord there's no fan service here in America!

Now that we've settled that, let's go back to watching wholesome clean shows like Game of Thrones! Oh, wait....

Well, it's all good. :Let's check out Spartacus ... oh, wait

. . .

Sorry for the interruption, but had to check out the latest nude selfies the Kardashain girls have been taking of themselves...

Now where was I? Oh, yes, looking for more clean, fan service free entertainment! Let's see what I can see, Rome? er, maybe I'll watch Deadwood ...okay, I'll just wait it out for the clean entertainment that is coming soon known as Westworld!

Okay, not working....Let's check out the boob tube...

Allow me to rephrase that...

Oh, this could be good, Victoria's Secret Special...what do you mean women running around in bras panties, thongs and lingerie is fan service? I thought that was only for animated characters?

Okay, let's go back in time then and watch something on TVLand, what could go wrong? Oh, I Dream of Jeannie's on! What could possibly go wrong with a show from the 1960s and early 1970s with the female lead running around in a harem outfit?

Fine, we'll go high class then, BBC/PBS and I, Claudius! Orgies every few episodes don't count as fan service right?

Get out of the 1970s? Okay, fine something more modern, then. NYPD Blue, a wholesome show about wholesome New York Cops and their bare butts and the topless women who love them....

Fine, fine, I'll go watch football...Oh, hello Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders! Whadaya mean...

Fine, basketball! Sweet, the Laker Girls are dancing!

Damn, but you're a pest!

Next thing you're going to tell me is that people watch female beach volleyball for the visible nipples, butt cheeks and camel-toes, instead of the grueling display of athleticism that it is.

Sheesh, okay, I'll watch a movie...

Animal House! You're kidding me, the pillow fight scene is fan service?

American Pie. Look, it even says "American" in the title!

Fine, I'll watch an Academy Award winning film, Titantic. Over 1500 people die, so there couldn't possibly be any fan service with Kate Winslet and Leonardo diCaprio, right?

Man, you're impossible!

Fine, back to sports, baseball. Oh, look the kiss cam's on...

Crud.

Okay, back to TV! What could possibly go wrong with Dancing With the Stars! Wait, people actually watch it for the dancing, not the skimpy costumes the women wear?

Now look what you've done! I've lost control of the computer and the TV! Have to run, my wife wife's taking over to watch the trailer for Fifity Shades Darker while she watches her Fifty Shades of Gray Blu-Ray on the big screen.

But, al least there's no fan service in America! Right?
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Posted 9/16/16
I thought the west was against it but they really aren't. The visual novel community is not that far away from the anime community, and as far as the west goes with vns, I thought everyone would want the non eroge versions of the games... boy was I wrong.

Oh you don't like anime? america has you covered, they make animated films/shows too you know. All non sexual shows like The Nutshack....
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Posted 9/16/16 , edited 9/17/16

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


I've seen a fair share of GoT, no huge interest in diving into it really and certainly wouldn't praise it as some great show specifically because of its sexual content; from what I've heard its actually got a good story which is where any interest I have would be. I've seen Valkyrie Drive: Mermaid, that's plenty of "abuse of fanservice" to put any other show to shame, then there's Hybrid x whatever that I've seen screen caps of and roll my eyes; so its not just "3 second panty shot every other episode". I'm also not trying to say its only anime that is guilty of it, its unfortunately spreading to multiple mediums.

Hentai and porn have an expectation of being sexually explicit, so seeing T&A and sex isn't a huge thing and I have no issue with that. I do have an annoyance with watching a good show and having it shove some form of fanservice in my face; having an interesting concept completely wasted in order to focus on providing nothing but fanservice; or having same-sex reduced to b.s. fanservice aspect.



weslamagne43 wrote:


Because not everyone wants to see sex. Because in a general viewing audience there will be multiple age groups of people watching, some of which shouldn't see that at their age. Because there should be a basic concept of ethics or morality involved. Because there's an entire category of media that can go into sexual subjects instead of putting it into the mainstream pool.

You get a certain immersion from seeing sex, that's not an objective fact; I for one get nothing from seeing sex except the want to change the channel. I love how people like yourself try to push the idea that showing sex somehow adds something to characters when it doesn't (at least not to everyone), I have yet to see an explicity sex scene where I could go "oh wow I have a whole new look on this character now". Everything that explicit sex does, implied sex can do only without the fanservice aspect and with more focus on the emotion of what's happening. Some of the best romance love scenes I've seen that actually carried the emotion and passion of what the characters were feeling were implied, because of how it focused on the emotion instead of showing off nudity and degrading it to a peep show.

From what I've seen for OITB, more people focus on the story that's happening instead of glorifying the sexual aspects, then again I haven't seen the show and sex being in it doesn't give me any reason to get into it. Also OITB is on a paid service outside of the "mainstream", not as in its not popular but that it isn't in the general wide-spread pool of media. Its not a matter of flipping through channels and running into it.

The problem with your little idea is when every show ends up going down this rabbit hole thus not giving a real choice as to what to watch. From my vantage point that's exactly what's happened in anime, its steadily moved more and more towards going for cheap fanservice appeal and more explicit about it (before it may just be a panty shot, now its full blown nude breast fondling or more depraved) instead of actually doing a good story, thus shifting me from handwaving fanservice to actually being annoyed by it. You enjoy it? Fine, but don't glorify it like its a universally accepted and/or wanted thing.
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Posted 9/17/16 , edited 9/17/16





Suggesting that these shows are for a general audience would be to ignore the viewer discretion ratings. You know very well going into watching The Walking Dead (rated TV MA) that it is not for everyone. If you are not mature enough, don't like violence, or don't like cursing, then don't watch it. It's not like anime creators are advertising their product for something it isn't to fool you. And who's concept of morality? Yours? Mine? Japanese animators? This is a legitimate question, not some kind of attack.

I would appreciate not bringing out the straw man here. I neither implied that I personally get immersion for sex, glorify it as universal, nor did I state it as an objective fact ("many" is a subjective and non-absolute adjective). You contradict yourself by being adamant about how "sex adds nothing to characters" ( your opinion, not a fact) and then saying "at least not to everyone" (accepting that what you just stated as fact was indeed subjective). Implied sex is fantastic for emotional development. It's very a very artistic choice, but it doesn't do everything. Just because you don't anything out of a particular scene doesn't mean that no one does. This is, again, qualified by my point with OITB. It is a show with more intense sexual content (including panty shots, breast fondling, and much much more) than I've ever seen from any anime, yet people eat it up. They do focus on the story, because the story is mostly well-written. This brings me back to my other point, that the problem isn't fanservice. It's that people aren't quite understanding that what's happening in the anime world is not unusual or unique. Surface level, popular, factory-assembled content in the limelight tends be pretty basic in any art medium. Saying that anime is going down the rabbit because of shows like [insert stock magical high school battle shounen] suck, is like saying that music today is terrible because you don't like the music you hear on the radio. It's little more than a reduction to the absurd. I get that you personally don't like fanservice and sexual content, and that's fine, but you should know very well that there is tons and tons of anime content out there with little to none of that. It isn't being forced down your throat the way you may think.

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Posted 9/17/16 , edited 9/17/16

xCrimsonEX wrote:

. . . I've seen Valkyrie Drive: Mermaid . . .




. . . Hybrid x whatever that I've seen screen caps of and roll my eyes . . .



We're done here.
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Posted 9/17/16

weslamagne43 wrote:

<Snip> I think it makes people uncomfortable because they don't know how to deal with animated characters being portrayed like that <snip>


I suspect you may have hit the nail on the head, or at least one of them.

And personal opinion - No, do whatever the hell you like Anime creators. If the fanservice makes the show unwatchable then do something to fix that simply for the sake of clarity, whether that be removal, adjustment or simply putting it in a different scene.
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Posted 9/17/16
Why stop there! If we really want it to appeal to Western Audiences, then we need to go even further and do away with the animation altogether! Who the heck wants to watch some stupid Chinese cartoons, anyway? I have a novel idea, they should use real people, preferably white males who speak English, so Westerners can relate. Then they need to make sure the setting has nothing to do with Japan whatsoever, preferably some generic town in the US. After that, we need to make sure there is gratuitous violence and suggestive scenes that fit Western ideals. There we go, now THAT'S how we save anime!
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Posted 9/17/16

sonic720 wrote:

Why stop there! If we really want it to appeal to Western Audiences, then we need to go even further and do away with the animation altogether! Who the heck wants to watch some stupid Chinese cartoons, anyway? I have a novel idea, they should use real people, preferably white males who speak English, so Westerners can relate. Then they need to make sure the setting has nothing to do with Japan whatsoever, preferably some generic town in the US. After that, we need to make sure there is gratuitous violence and suggestive scenes that fit Western ideals. There we go, now THAT'S how we save anime!


Genius!
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