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Post Reply Religious freedom=license for bigotry yes or no?
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F / ar away
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Posted 9/19/16
I think ideally, the principle of religious freedom allows people to engage in whatever worldview they have a preference for, and this freedom should be granted equally and fairly to all worldviews not a privileged few. A popular worldview is that of Christianity, in which faithful observers have been known to act on claims about Gods view of homosexuality and the fate of unborn fetuses. And many people disagree with these claims.

So this dispute raises the question of whether we can always provide provisions for both sides in everyday life and avoid finger pointing and accusations of discrimination. I think we can, but the fundamentals behind this goal is not called religious freedom. Religious freedom simply grants freedom in the choices you make, but it stops there and that's why it's actually worded as Congress prohibiting an establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof. The Constitution says nothing about guaranteeing others won't disagree with you. That is it's flaw and misconception that people have. The process and ideas behind whatever compromise we come up with is independent of the Drafters intentions. They didn't mention it, they left it entirely open so next time you hear someone crying religious freedom and Constitution this or that, they are missing the big picture.

Both religious and secular sides have found solutions to the frequent disagreements between them, such as granting marriage licenses to same-sex couples at clerks offices in deeply conservative counties where certain clerks refuse per their religious convictions. They are allowed to opt-out provided another clerk is available to sign the license. Some instances are more challenging than this, but we just have to find ways to overcome these challenges and keep the conversation going.
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27 / M
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16
I don't think a government that prides itself of the separation of church and state should get involved in matters of religion unless in presents a clear danger to it's congregation with human sacrifices and things like that. But when it comes to discrimination? I don't think a Jewish synagogue should be forced to hire a Christian and don't see any problem in asking about their faith before they are hired.

Now if you pay taxes to the country you have to follow their laws, which means no discrimination. You should be able to opt out of certain things like with Hobby Lobby or say you open up a school for atheist and you want to do away with the Pledge of Allegiance.

No country should tell a religion how it should do things.
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Posted 9/19/16
XD XXX
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Posted 9/19/16
The separation of church and state, referred to keeping the government from interfering with people's religion of choice. Don't forget that most of the original colonists to America were fleeing religious persecution from European governments. Liberals have tried twisting the meaning of Freedom of religion to be Freedom from religion.
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22 / M
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

MysticGon wrote:
No country should tell a religion how it should do things.
-__-
Maybe not the religion (even though some would be lovely if they was "updated")...
As now there is many issues that we in the community has to change from those living in a more extreme culture/religion/views and values.
Some are great, some are not.

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33 / M / Baltimore, MD
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Posted 9/19/16

MysticGon wrote:

I don't think a government that prides itself of the separation of church and state should get involved in matters of religion unless in presents a clear danger to it's congregation with human sacrifices and things like that. But when it comes to discrimination? I don't think a Jewish synagogue should be forced to hire a Christian and don't see any problem in asking about their faith before they are hired.

Now if you pay taxes to the country you have to follow their laws, which means no discrimination. You should be able to opt out of certain things like with Hobby Lobby or say you open up a school for atheist and you want to do away with the Pledge of Allegiance.

No country should tell a religion how it should do things.

I agree.

I do not believe a Mosque should be forced to marry a Hindu couple. Neither should a Catholic Church be forced to perform a same-sex wedding. Why? In both instances the couples do not adhere to the strict faith of the church/mosque/place of worship in question. I don't think that should be a controversial train of thought, but it is for some.

Regarding religious charitable organizations, I have no problem with a religious "litmus" test for how they hire and do business. Again, this is similar to the way MysticGon refers to it above with the synagogue not be forced to hire a Christian employee.

For private companies, they're privately held companies and the right to operate as they see fit within the confines of the law. That said, what laws make the most sense is still going to be in question. A business should still have the right to do business and deny business as they see fit. Should a Jewish baker be forced to make a cake with Nazi iconography on it? Of course not. Should a deli run by an Islamic family be forced to serve pork and bacon when it's against Halal dietary law? Of course not. Can a restaurant deny someone business for coming in naked? Yes. So, the next question becomes (as is the public debate usually) can a bakery run by Christians choose to deny business for a same-sex wedding cake? I say yes by the same logic. That's just me. Just as a homosexual baker would be within their right to deny business to the Westboro Cult if they wanted a "GOD HATES F*GS" cake made. While the latter is more inflammatory, both go against their core beliefs. If you own the business, you have a right to deny business. If it's not yours though, then that's not your call to make.

Now, it comes down to what I would do if it were me, would I deny their business? No, even as a Christian I still would have no problem baking a cake for whoever. Then again, I'm not a baker - so the cake I would make would probably be terrible.
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23 / M / Abyss
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Posted 9/19/16
“Religion is still useful among the herd - that it helps their orderly conduct as nothing else could. The crude human animal is in-eradicably superstitious, and there is every biological reason why they should be. Take away his Christian god and saints, and he will worship something else...”
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19 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
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Posted 9/19/16

Xxanthar wrote:

The separation of church and state, referred to keeping the government from interfering with people's religion of choice. Don't forget that most of the original colonists to America were fleeing religious persecution from European governments. Liberals have tried twisting the meaning of Freedom of religion to be Freedom from religion.


How the hell are the two mutually exclusive? If you have the freedom to partake in something, but not the freedom to avoid it then you really don't have freedom at all.
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22 / M
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

Dark_Alma wrote:
“Take away his Christian god and saints, and he will worship something else...”
and its by the power of the people who will adjust on their own or in a group, soo... will the herder lead them towards a cliff, to desert or to a green field?

Sadly the arab's went down hill up to now.
Only if people could not take the relationship with such faith sooo dearly over whats here and now.
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16
i feel that religion shouldn't have too much say in how society in run, keep it out of the education system(if students want to pray or such let them but anything more is to much) limit its influence in politics and don't let some of the more barbaric aspect be allowed to continue for example circumcision but i don't think religion should be out rate banned though their are a few exceptions but those are more extreme cases.
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55 / M
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Posted 9/19/16
Freedom of religion necessitates freedom from religion. You can't have the first without the second.
Forcing religious beliefs on others, if they want them or not is not freedom of religion.

If you are talking about religion in school, students have the right to be religious and pray, what they don't have a right to do is force their religion on others, and neither do those who work for the school.

Nor can government officials advocate some religions without stepping on the rights of religious minorities. Which is the entire reason why many religious and non religious advocate for a secular society, in other words, keeping religion out of government. They recognize that a theocracy is a dangerous form of government that prevents religious freedom.

Posted 9/19/16
Its accepted if it is, as people are given a choice they are more inclined to feel less forced to conform, they can "choose to do right". Either way it is a form of social control, politicians that are not religious are less likely to be elected, and it isn't unheard of for shallowness for the sake of appearances and corruption driven by greed for profit to be pervasive in religious communities.

Whether one is religious is moot. It is not without its secular uses regardless of the authenticity of a religion and its followers, it can instill responsibility and morality as well as intolerance and prejudice, all through fear, after all fear isn't necessarily always a bad thing, it does keep us from jumping off cliffs and can motivate in a positive way. ..
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26 / M
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Posted 9/19/16
No
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27 / M
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Posted 9/19/16

dragonlord1234 wrote:

i feel that religion shouldn't have too much say in how society in run, keep it out of the education system(if students want to pray or such let them but anything more is to much) limit its influence in politics and don't let some of the more barbaric aspect be allowed to continue for example circumcision but i don't think religion should be out rate banned though their are a few exceptions but those are more extreme cases.


Actually these days people want to get circumcised so they don't split their foreskin when doing anal but yeah I agree somewhat.
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34 / F / In a van down by...
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16
Religion needs to stay out of any politics whatsoever. Whatever deity you chose to worship(or don't) is private business. That's the problem with this country....




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