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Post Reply Sign petition for Edward Snowden's pardon
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Posted 9/19/16

paul25454 wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


paul25454 wrote:

Honestly I don't have a good answer. The only one I can think of is both countries don't give a shit what our government say.


They ultimately have to, epecially since Ecuador's primary export partner is the US, at a whopping 45% of their total.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/06/27/ecuador-us-trade-relations-snowden/2462687/

As for Brazil, it's about $191 Billion


Well Snowden is f..k either way. Seems like Russia and China-mainly Hong Kong-are his only options right now. In all honestly this petition is not going to help. No self respecting President is going to pardon him. That is mainly politics.


Trade sanctions against China, while also hurting the United States, would not escape the commercial-minded Chinese "Communist" Party. The Chinese handles possible confrontations with US in very different ways than Russia.
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Posted 9/19/16
He was in the right I will sign if I can when I get on my pc next
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Posted 9/19/16

MysticGon wrote:

Not sure where I stand. On the one hand I love seeing the U.S. government being salty as fuck because they are so use to controlling every aspect of everything, but on the other hand he did break the law.


Just because the law exist doesn't make it right
My country makes most hentai illegal that doesn't
Mean their law is right (example of a law I don't follow)


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Posted 9/19/16

nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:

http://www.cjfe.org/snowden
If you want to read through the hundreds of published documents out of hundreds of thousands of documents stolen, be my guest, but the details are a moot concern. That the documents were leaked at all is the point.



Incorrect- It's all about the details.

Why was he selective, think about it. You don't even have to read the FAQ to know that if he wanted to leak in an indiscriminate way he could have done it all by himself and with minimal effort.


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?
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Posted 9/19/16

PandAndy wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:

http://www.cjfe.org/snowden
If you want to read through the hundreds of published documents out of hundreds of thousands of documents stolen, be my guest, but the details are a moot concern. That the documents were leaked at all is the point.



Incorrect- It's all about the details.

Why was he selective, think about it. You don't even have to read the FAQ to know that if he wanted to leak in an indiscriminate way he could have done it all by himself and with minimal effort.


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?


The convenience store broke the law and this one guy had to steal from it to prove it, and he can't get a fair trial because under the law he's not really entitled.
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Posted 9/19/16

PandAndy wrote:


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?


Pretty much this, not sure why it's so hard to understand.
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Posted 9/19/16

Lemontitties wrote:


PandAndy wrote:


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?


Pretty much this, not sure why it's so hard to understand.


I'm not sure why my counterexample's so hard to understand

The Constitution needs upholding
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Posted 9/19/16

nanikore2 wrote:


I'm not sure why my counterexample's so hard to understand

The Constitution needs upholding


Keep fighting the system, you proud american you.
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:

http://www.cjfe.org/snowden
If you want to read through the hundreds of published documents out of hundreds of thousands of documents stolen, be my guest, but the details are a moot concern. That the documents were leaked at all is the point.



Incorrect- It's all about the details.

Why was he selective, think about it. You don't even have to read the FAQ to know that if he wanted to leak in an indiscriminate way he could have done it all by himself and with minimal effort.


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?


The convenience store broke the law and this one guy had to steal from it to prove it, and he can't get a fair trial because under the law he's not really entitled.


That is vigilante justice, again, fundamentally the same and, again, a breach of federal law. The vigilante would be punished.
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

PandAndy wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:

http://www.cjfe.org/snowden
If you want to read through the hundreds of published documents out of hundreds of thousands of documents stolen, be my guest, but the details are a moot concern. That the documents were leaked at all is the point.



Incorrect- It's all about the details.

Why was he selective, think about it. You don't even have to read the FAQ to know that if he wanted to leak in an indiscriminate way he could have done it all by himself and with minimal effort.


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?


The convenience store broke the law and this one guy had to steal from it to prove it, and he can't get a fair trial because under the law he's not really entitled.


That is vigilante justice, again, fundamentally the same and, again, a breach of federal law. The vigilante would be punished.


Ok then I demand fair trial. Rewrite the law first.
runec 
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Posted 9/19/16

PandAndy wrote:
You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it.


Do convenience stores fall under the Espionage Act? >.>

If he had robbed a convenience store motive would certainly factor into the trial and sentencing. Under the Espionage Act, his defense would effectively be prevented from making any case on his behalf. So as long as he's charged under that Act he will not get a fair trial in the US and has no reason to turn himself in or go anywhere that he might be extradited.

Russia just keeps him around because it pisses off the US but he's effectively a prisoner there too.



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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16
I don't support his actions. I am in favor of Snowden going to jail for a long time.
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

bensonc120 wrote:

I don't support his actions. I am in favor of Snowden going to jail for a long time.


Good, please have the government change the law so that he gets a fair trial.


Lemontitties wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


I'm not sure why my counterexample's so hard to understand

The Constitution needs upholding


Keep fighting the system, you proud american you.


What system, the Constitution of the United States?

If the law gets changed so he gets a trial by his peers, then I'm all for it.

Not going to happen.
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

runec wrote:


PandAndy wrote:
You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it.


Do convenience stores fall under the Espionage Act? >.>

If he had robbed a convenience store motive would certainly factor into the trial and sentencing. Under the Espionage Act, his defense would effectively be prevented from making any case on his behalf. So as long as he's charged under that Act he will not get a fair trial in the US and has no reason to turn himself in or go anywhere that he might be extradited.

Russia just keeps him around because it pisses off the US but he's effectively a prisoner there too.





http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/15/what_would_happen_to_nsa_whistleblower
Read about half way down. The trial would be a-typical but it does not mean he cannot plead his case to expedite punishment.
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Posted 9/19/16 , edited 9/19/16

nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


PandAndy wrote:

http://www.cjfe.org/snowden
If you want to read through the hundreds of published documents out of hundreds of thousands of documents stolen, be my guest, but the details are a moot concern. That the documents were leaked at all is the point.



Incorrect- It's all about the details.

Why was he selective, think about it. You don't even have to read the FAQ to know that if he wanted to leak in an indiscriminate way he could have done it all by himself and with minimal effort.


You're missing the point. WHAT or HOW MUCH is, has been, or ever will be leaked is of no consequence; it is that it was leaked, period. Allow me to offer an analogy: one man robs a convenience store for thrill and another robs a convenience store because his family is homeless and hungry. Is there a difference? No; the two are fundamentally the same. Regardless of motivation, they both robbed a convenience store, and no amount of appeal to moral can justify it. Snowden is the same. Whether he stole a decade's worth of flight logs or classified documents, he stole from the U.S. government and distributed that information to public agents. It is espionage no matter how you look at it. If the botched Watergate attempts did not go unpunished, why should Snowden?


The convenience store broke the law and this one guy had to steal from it to prove it, and he can't get a fair trial because under the law he's not really entitled.


That is vigilante justice, again, fundamentally the same and, again, a breach of federal law. The vigilante would be punished.


Ok then I demand fair trial. Rewrite the law first.


Sure! Let's go ahead and release Manson from prison while were at it! I mean... he didn't actually murder anyone...

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