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Post Reply Sign petition for Edward Snowden's pardon
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21 / M / Finland
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Posted 9/20/16
Mr Snowden is a hero imo
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 9/20/16 , edited 9/20/16

Ranwolf wrote:

Why would I sign this, the man is 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty of his charges. There is no innonce for him to defend and protest over. If he had a shred of decency he'd face the punishment for his crimes. Whatever the reasons he broke the law in a rather significant way, the law must apply evenly and harshly to all or it is not the law.


Though sometimes the law is wrong this is a situation where we must question if the law is right or wrong.

He did right by what he did crime or not he is a hero.

Why don't we send soldiers to jail for killing if we are following the law to a T
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Posted 9/20/16 , edited 9/20/16
Not sure why so many people want to punish him. Xxanthar (Sigh) has a point, if he did in fact unjustly compromise the safety of other people. The whole legality thing doesn't fly with me though, as does the convenience store example.


I believe he should be pardoned, provided he acted responsibly and in great interest of the general public.
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Posted 9/20/16
Soldiers did not commit a crime.
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21 / M / Finland
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Posted 9/20/16
Btw legend says that NSA asked/demanded backdoor to f-secure program but these f-secure people said f off.

Idk if this is true.
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Posted 9/20/16

PhantomGundam wrote:


PandAndy wrote:

Sure! Let's go ahead and release Manson from prison while were at it! I mean... he didn't actually murder anyone...



You say that as if doing a public service by exposing an illegal government operation that targets innocent people is the same as convincing someone to commit murder... All laws are not created equal. Please realize how ridiculous your analogy was.


Read further through the thread and you'll find that the analogy isn't comparing and apple to an orange for the sake of comparing an apple to an orange. As I've said, you're asking for a reinterpretation of law to pardon one man who still knowingly committed a crime. Snowden knows he's committed a crime--hell, he's even said he would serve a sentence if he weren't tried under the laws of the Espionage Act. It's just unbelievably dense to say "he did it for a good cause, so he should be pardoned." Do you know how many murders have occurred "in the name of a good cause?"


Ryulightorb wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:

Why would I sign this, the man is 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty of his charges. There is no innonce for him to defend and protest over. If he had a shred of decency he'd face the punishment for his crimes. Whatever the reasons he broke the law in a rather significant way, the law must apply evenly and harshly to all or it is not the law.


Though sometimes the law is wrong this is a situation where we must question if the law is right or wrong.

He did right by what he did crime or not he is a hero.

Why don't we send soldiers to jail for killing if we are following the law to a T


Sometimes we do...
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58 / M / USA
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Posted 9/20/16

PhantomGundam wrote:
Or maybe he just doesn't have faith that he'd be treated fairly, just like any other rational person would think. As long as the Espionage Act treats him like he's the Antichrist, he'll never get a proper trial. Until that law gets fixed, he'd have to be crazy to think of setting foot back here.


I'm sure Cassius Clay and others who protested the Viet Nam War had similar feelings when they went to court. They too felt what the government was doing at the time was wrong in a legal, ethical, and moral sense. But many had the courage of their convictions to face punishment for refusing to serve.

An illegal act, even if it is beneficial to the public, is still an illegal act. It doesn't matter if it was done at the government's behest (the collection of data on American citizens by the NSA) or by an individual (Snowden in transporting classified material to outside journalists).

While I'll grant that it would be very difficult to fill the jury due to the publicity surrounding the matter, Mr. Snowden does need to account for his actions in a court of law.
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Posted 9/20/16
He should go live with Oliver Stone on one of his islands. This whole pardon crap is just free publicity for that crappy movie that's tanking in theaters.
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Posted 9/20/16
Meh, sorry. Not going to happen. I don't mind that he blew the whistle on government spying but the way he went about it was wrong. Giving secrets away to foreign countries is wrong. Also when he began his job I'm sure he signed some form of agreement not to divulge information which he obviously broke. Two wrongs never make a right. He brought all of this on himself. I could easily go and start robbing the rich and giving it to the poor who need it more. That wouldn't change the fact that I'm a thief and I'm breaking the law. You get into some very scary and dangerous ground when you decide to start doing things for the common good. I'm sure Nazi Germany thought their vision was for the greater good of the world. Villains never see themselves as the bad guys.
Posted 9/20/16
My country was quick to put on a poker face and threaten that he would be extradited if he came here. Too bad Snowden don't know how fickle we are on human rights... that, due to the horrendous conditions of U.S. prisons, which are in violation of several human right codes, he would never have been extradited, or deported to a third party that could, because if he knew, he would be living the good life right about now. And that is something I think someone should inform him about. He is nowhere near a Quisling, but he did sign an NDA, and he broke it, which he should take responsibility for, and knowing good ol' diplomatic but principled Norway, we would probably go under some sort of agreement with the U.S. to penalize him under Norwegian laws instead of extraditing him.
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28 / F / Charlotte, NC
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Posted 9/20/16

I haven't... I definitely won't see the current Oliver Stone movie since it looks like dumb sci-fi.



I actually saw the Oliver Stone movie on Sunday, and it was quite good. My expectations for it in the beginning weren't high, but it stuck to all of the real events that did occur during his time serving the government as a contractor for various branches. Snowden himself is actually in the film at the end (and I am not talking about clips, either.). Of course, there is a little Hollywood mixed in that doesn't necessarily need to be there, but I would recommend watching it, or at least watching it when it is released to the public through Redbox or something if you are incredibly uncertain.
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Posted 9/20/16

TheOriginalStraynge wrote:

Meh, sorry. Not going to happen. I don't mind that he blew the whistle on government spying but the way he went about it was wrong. Giving secrets away to foreign countries is wrong. Also when he began his job I'm sure he signed some form of agreement not to divulge information which he obviously broke. Two wrongs never make a right. He brought all of this on himself. I could easily go and start robbing the rich and giving it to the poor who need it more. That wouldn't change the fact that I'm a thief and I'm breaking the law. You get into some very scary and dangerous ground when you decide to start doing things for the common good. I'm sure Nazi Germany thought their vision was for the greater good of the world. Villains never see themselves as the bad guys.


Wasn't everything Hitler did legal, while partisan fighters and people sheltering Jews illegal? Just saying. Plato had a very good dialogue with Socrates regarding Law and Order vs Justice.

In any case, this legalism aspect is something that doesn't works 100%. Instead of deciding that breaking the law is unethical, we must take the action into consideration with regards to the law, the action, and the precipitating action.

In other words, was what he did unethical? It was obviously illegal.
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Posted 9/20/16

MeanderCat wrote:


PhantomGundam wrote:
Or maybe he just doesn't have faith that he'd be treated fairly, just like any other rational person would think. As long as the Espionage Act treats him like he's the Antichrist, he'll never get a proper trial. Until that law gets fixed, he'd have to be crazy to think of setting foot back here.


I'm sure Cassius Clay and others who protested the Viet Nam War had similar feelings when they went to court. They too felt what the government was doing at the time was wrong in a legal, ethical, and moral sense. But many had the courage of their convictions to face punishment for refusing to serve.

An illegal act, even if it is beneficial to the public, is still an illegal act. It doesn't matter if it was done at the government's behest (the collection of data on American citizens by the NSA) or by an individual (Snowden in transporting classified material to outside journalists).

While I'll grant that it would be very difficult to fill the jury due to the publicity surrounding the matter, Mr. Snowden does need to account for his actions in a court of law.


Martin Luther King Jr had a point about subverting law and order only to a just extent, with respect to the democratic process of trial by jury which makes the US a forefront of human rights.

I thought that would be interesting to consider. Though another point to consider is, the act which condemns him doesn't even allow that apparently. It's a straight to jail card for treasonous actions.
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Posted 9/20/16 , edited 9/20/16

PandAndy wrote:

Sure! Let's go ahead and release Manson from prison while were at it! I mean... he didn't actually murder anyone...



You're full of non-sequiturs. What does that have to do with giving Snowden a fair trial? By the way, I'm asking for a pardon BECAUSE there can't be a fair trial.


MeanderCat wrote:


PhantomGundam wrote:
Or maybe he just doesn't have faith that he'd be treated fairly, just like any other rational person would think. As long as the Espionage Act treats him like he's the Antichrist, he'll never get a proper trial. Until that law gets fixed, he'd have to be crazy to think of setting foot back here.


I'm sure Cassius Clay and others who protested the Viet Nam War had similar feelings when they went to court. They too felt what the government was doing at the time was wrong in a legal, ethical, and moral sense. But many had the courage of their convictions to face punishment for refusing to serve.

An illegal act, even if it is beneficial to the public, is still an illegal act. It doesn't matter if it was done at the government's behest (the collection of data on American citizens by the NSA) or by an individual (Snowden in transporting classified material to outside journalists).

While I'll grant that it would be very difficult to fill the jury due to the publicity surrounding the matter, Mr. Snowden does need to account for his actions in a court of law.


Snowden wouldn't get trial by jury. The Espionage Act wouldn't give him one.


TheOriginalStraynge wrote:

Meh, sorry. Not going to happen. I don't mind that he blew the whistle on government spying but the way he went about it was wrong. Giving secrets away to foreign countries is wrong. Also when he began his job I'm sure he signed some form of agreement not to divulge information which he obviously broke. Two wrongs never make a right. He brought all of this on himself. I could easily go and start robbing the rich and giving it to the poor who need it more. That wouldn't change the fact that I'm a thief and I'm breaking the law. You get into some very scary and dangerous ground when you decide to start doing things for the common good. I'm sure Nazi Germany thought their vision was for the greater good of the world. Villains never see themselves as the bad guys.


Which secrets, specifically? Someone gave a link to everything Snowden released. The rest never left with him. An official in the NSA leak investigation said Snowden didn't cooperate with foreign governments. Why was he selective with the leaks in the first place if it's easier just to leak everything by himself... It's because he was making sure only the parts the public needs to know is leaked.


Xxanthar wrote:

He should go live with Oliver Stone on one of his islands. This whole pardon crap is just free publicity for that crappy movie that's tanking in theaters.


So you're saying that Amnesty International and ALCU is in cahoots with Oliver Stone. Hey sure, if that's what you believe over everything that's in the FAQ.


Hrafna wrote:

My country was quick to put on a poker face and threaten that he would be extradited if he came here. Too bad Snowden don't know how fickle we are on human rights... that, due to the horrendous conditions of U.S. prisons, which are in violation of several human right codes, he would never have been extradited, or deported to a third party that could, because if he knew, he would be living the good life right about now. And that is something I think someone should inform him about. He is nowhere near a Quisling, but he did sign an NDA, and he broke it, which he should take responsibility for, and knowing good ol' diplomatic but principled Norway, we would probably go under some sort of agreement with the U.S. to penalize him under Norwegian laws instead of extraditing him.


Fickle is precisely why he shouldn't go there


beautyinthebreakdown1988 wrote:


I haven't... I definitely won't see the current Oliver Stone movie since it looks like dumb sci-fi.



I actually saw the Oliver Stone movie on Sunday, and it was quite good. My expectations for it in the beginning weren't high, but it stuck to all of the real events that did occur during his time serving the government as a contractor for various branches. Snowden himself is actually in the film at the end (and I am not talking about clips, either.). Of course, there is a little Hollywood mixed in that doesn't necessarily need to be there, but I would recommend watching it, or at least watching it when it is released to the public through Redbox or something if you are incredibly uncertain.


I suppose I'd give it a shot if there's nothing else on my list. The way the movie studio made the trailer was atrocious... especially the part with all that cyberspacy-computer graphics that looks like The Minority Report.


Ranwolf wrote:

Why would I sign this, the man is 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty of his charges. There is no innonce for him to defend and protest over. If he had a shred of decency he'd face the punishment for his crimes. Whatever the reasons he broke the law in a rather significant way, the law must apply evenly and harshly to all or it is not the law.


You're not a US citizen anyways. It's not a matter of guilt or innocence but the Constitution of the United States, which supersedes all other laws in the land
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Posted 9/20/16
No way. Why? Despite his reasons aside-right or wrong, he broke the law. He made his own bed, and now he must sleep on it.
He should have thought the consequences before he did what he did. If the president pardons him, then where do we draw the line? A murderer could beg a pardon -- yeah, I kill that sob, but I don't feel like going to jail. Yo president, how about some amnesty for me?

Honestly, we lax on enforcing the law in this country. Do you think Snowden would still be alive if he pulls this kind of stunt in China?
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