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Post Reply Yet another person shot and killed while having their hands up
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Posted 9/20/16

octorockandroll wrote:

I was never taught that a policeman has the right to shoot you if you don't do what they say. I know the reason why, too. It's because they aren't.


Except when they believe you will be an immediate threat to themselves or other people. Obey their commands and you seem a lot less threatening. Disobey and start going to a vehicle to do god knows what? I'd start feeling pretty nervous and think that something bad is about to happen.
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Posted 9/20/16

Ocale wrote: there was absolutely no reason/excuse to fire. He would have not have been able to reach the level of threat that they let him be if they had just taken more decisive action sooner.

The man is in the wrong for not complying, too. Orders from officers are as basic as they can be. "Get on the ground!" The officers are wrong.
yeah and why I dislike the police over there.
Fire at will or on their own orders (sometimes it can be good, sometimes...not)
Like obeying a order is enough to shot someone is pretty sad...
Sometimes those orders are pretty stupid as well.
Like "get on the ground" while they are doing nothing and it was enough with them putting their hands up, and then 2 police officers sit ontop of their chest so they can't breathe.

Even though I can't say much about the black community and their actions to go against the police as that does not help either.
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Posted 9/20/16
Why post this on Crunchyroll? People are trying to watch anime, not participate in an ill-informed trial by forums
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Posted 9/20/16 , edited 9/20/16

EichiXIII wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

I was never taught that a policeman has the right to shoot you if you don't do what they say. I know the reason why, too. It's because they aren't.


Except when they believe you will be an immediate threat to themselves or other people. Obey their commands and you seem a lot less threatening. Disobey and start going to a vehicle to do god knows what? I'd start feeling pretty nervous and think that something bad is about to happen.


Again, I will remind the people here of proportionate response. The gravity of the offense must match that of the punishment, and walking is not an offense that warrants death, even if you are walking away from a person of authority. Seriously, I don't know how you guys do it in the US, but in Canada our officers are trained and equipped for non-lethal aprehension for pretty much this exact kind of situation. There is no excuse for shooting this guy.
Posted 9/20/16

octorockandroll wrote:

I was never taught that a policeman has the right to shoot you if you don't do what they say.


Maybe you're not American.
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Posted 9/20/16 , edited 9/20/16

illusiv3 wrote:
Why post this on Crunchyroll? People are trying to watch anime, not participate in an ill-informed trial by forums
Why are you here, asking this?

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Posted 9/20/16

illusiv3 wrote:

Why post this on Crunchyroll? People are trying to watch anime, not participate in an ill-informed trial by forums


It's a forum, it's for conversation. If you just want to watch anime than just do that and let us do what we want to do.
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Posted 9/20/16

Hrafna wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

I was never taught that a policeman has the right to shoot you if you don't do what they say.


Maybe you're not American.


I know for a fact that America has proportionate response as well.
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Posted 9/20/16

octorockandroll wrote:

I was never taught that a policeman has the right to shoot you if you don't do what they say. I know the reason why, too. It's because they aren't.


If you are doing what the police say and they shoot you, they are always in the wrong. If you are not following orders, it makes it a judgement call whether your actions show you to potentially be clear and present danger to others. Do you really want to make it a judgement call whether the person pointing a gun at you has reason to use it or not?

As to the case in the OP, it doesn't look good from the two cameras that were shown. Whether other cameras show more resistance or not, who knows. The evidence should and will be presented at grand jury to determine if there is a case to bring or not.
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Posted 9/20/16
Much like life, during an arrest, YOUR actions determine just how shitty the experience will be.
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Posted 9/20/16

Xxanthar wrote:

Much like life, during an arrest, YOUR actions determine just how shitty the experience will be.


That is entirely true. It is also true that if your actions do not warrant being shot, you ought not to be shot.
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Posted 9/20/16

octorockandroll wrote:


EichiXIII wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

I was never taught that a policeman has the right to shoot you if you don't do what they say. I know the reason why, too. It's because they aren't.


Except when they believe you will be an immediate threat to themselves or other people. Obey their commands and you seem a lot less threatening. Disobey and start going to a vehicle to do god knows what? I'd start feeling pretty nervous and think that something bad is about to happen.


Again, I will remind the people here of proportionate response. The gravity of the offense must match that of the punishment, and getting shot is not an offense that warrants death, even if you are walking away from a person of authority. Seriously, I don't know how you guys do it in the US, but in Canada our officers are trained and equipped for non-lethal aprehension for pretty much this exact kind of situation. There is no excuse for shooting this guy.


Well I would say getting shot isn't an offense at all and while it may not warrant death I would argue getting shot certainly means death is checking in on you and ya better watch out.

To be serious though, yes, I would say that he should have been tasered way before reaching the vehicle by the female officer. I don't know why that didn't happen and would love to hear the reasoning for it to see if it even makes a little sense at all. But walking away and doing things that seems like you are about to do something much worse definitely deserves a reaction from police. Death? No in most situations but we don't know everything that was going on. We need more info. For now though the only side I can see is him not following orders and that is why I have to side more with police for now.

And I also think your argument should be invalidated entirely for being Canadian. You all prolly get apologies while you are being robbed and get a few dollars handed back to you cause they feel bad taking it all. It's like a different world entirely.
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Posted 9/20/16 , edited 9/20/16

EichiXIII wrote:

Well I would say getting shot isn't an offense at all and while it may not warrant death I would argue getting shot certainly means death is checking in on you and ya better watch out.

To be serious though, yes, I would say that he should have been tasered way before reaching the vehicle by the female officer. I don't know why that didn't happen and would love to hear the reasoning for it to see if it even makes a little sense at all. But walking away and doing things that seems like you are about to do something much worse definitely deserves a reaction from police. Death? No in most situations but we don't know everything that was going on. We need more info. For now though the only side I can see is him not following orders and that is why I have to side more with police for now.

And I also think your argument should be invalidated entirely for being Canadian. You all prolly get apologies while you are being robbed and get a few dollars handed back to you cause they feel bad taking it all. It's like a different world entirely.


Oh yeah, I'm not saying this guy shouldn't have been taken down. But I think I'm going to side a bit more with the victim for now just because of the trends I've noticed in law enforcement recently. Especially this thing

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/police-accidentally-record-themselves-conspiring-fabricate-criminal-charges-against

Yeah, that doesn't paint the police ina great light... However if it does turn out that there is another side to this story we havent seen yet I will eat my words like they are gnocchi, but the evidence we have been presented with seems to strongly suggest that the fault lies with the officers.

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Posted 9/20/16

octorockandroll wrote:

Oh yeah, I'm not saying this guy shouldn't have been taken down. But I think I'm going to side a bit more with the victim for now just because of the trends I've noticed in law enforcement recently. Especially this thing

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/police-accidentally-record-themselves-conspiring-fabricate-criminal-charges-against

Yeah, that doesn't paint the police ina great light... However if it does turn out that there is another side to this story we havent seen yet I will eat my words like they are gnocchi, but the evidence we have been presented with seems to strongly suggest that the fault lies with the officers.



I think the biggest indicator of something going majorly wrong on the police side is the fact he was both shot and tasered at the same time. It makes it seem like there was some sort of miscommunication or something or someone freaked out. I don't know but they definitely need to explain what happened on their end. I'll still have a hard time putting all responsibility on the cops though because it never would have gotten to that point if he had just obeyed orders got down let them handcuff him and talked it out. Right now without further evidence I'm sitting at a good 70% for him and 30% cops. If they can't give any reason or give a bad explanation over what happened with the taser thing then I'll prolly go 40% for him and 60% for cops being at fault. Going 50-50 would just seem like a cop out IMO.
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Posted 9/20/16

EichiXIII wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

Oh yeah, I'm not saying this guy shouldn't have been taken down. But I think I'm going to side a bit more with the victim for now just because of the trends I've noticed in law enforcement recently. Especially this thing

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/police-accidentally-record-themselves-conspiring-fabricate-criminal-charges-against

Yeah, that doesn't paint the police ina great light... However if it does turn out that there is another side to this story we havent seen yet I will eat my words like they are gnocchi, but the evidence we have been presented with seems to strongly suggest that the fault lies with the officers.



I think the biggest indicator of something going majorly wrong on the police side is the fact he was both shot and tasered at the same time. It makes it seem like there was some sort of miscommunication or something or someone freaked out. I don't know but they definitely need to explain what happened on their end. I'll still have a hard time putting all responsibility on the cops though because it never would have gotten to that point if he had just obeyed orders got down let them handcuff him and talked it out. Right now without further evidence I'm sitting at a good 70% for him and 30% cops. If they can't give any reason or give a bad explanation over what happened with the taser thing then I'll prolly go 40% for him and 60% for cops being at fault. Going 50-50 would just seem like a cop out IMO.


HA! I see what you did there.
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