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Post Reply Hillary Tax and College
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23 / M / Abyss
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Posted 9/29/16

Savagely69 wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if Donald trump was the Antichrist


Please don't insult Satan or his Kin by likening them to Trump.

Thanks!
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Posted 9/29/16

qwueri wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

College isn't freakin' medical care

I'm not gonna pay for other people's education


Very good chance you already pay for other people's education, through public schools. Or if your state happens to offer student grants.


I stated my desire to not pay

Whether I'm forced to is another matter
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26 / F / Overlord's Castle
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Posted 9/29/16
People always cry out "free education", meanwhile teachers get screwed.
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Hoosierville
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Posted 9/29/16

jujitsu213 wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


henohenomoheiji wrote:

Is okie, he doesn't pay taxes anyways...


'Cus that makes him "smart" :3


LOL


Ya know I try to reduce how much I pay in taxes and increase my refund as much as possible. I can't really say I'm much different from him...

Can you?


I, however make less than 20k a year. Have no assets, other than my car, which technically is owned by my father. I do, however pay some tax granted its only about 4% federal. 615million even at 4% is twenty four million six hundred thousand. Ya, If he can't afford to pay at least the same amount of tax by percent as me, then he doesn't deserve to be president.

I make more than you and thanks to the tax code have paid $0 in federal last year, I got a refund actually. State I keep paying ~$80 because my state keeps deductions to a minimum and nothing is really deductible.
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Posted 9/29/16 , edited 9/29/16

bakasama99 wrote:

There are a slew of problems with "Free" college and it isn't free nor is it cheaper and from the one country I have looked into(almost moved there long term for a job) with free college(Sweden). and I can say concretely IF I lived in Sweden I would be paying ALOT more over time(would get more expensive after about 8 years of working there) for college than I would here in the US, it just wouldn't be all at once.

Lets assume tuition is 50,000 (for all expenses books, tuition, housing) dollars and that you make 50,000 dollars a year post graduation in either scenario(for ease of math and a low salary has a better chance of making the free college worth it)

So in the US you take out a loan for 50k and start paying it off typically around the time you graduate.

In Sweden you pay taxes and get the college for free, and while technically you have to pay for the rest lets assume you get that too to make math easier.

Now the difference in taxes between Sweeden and the US is that in the U.S. you would be paying Federal tax rate of 25%(http://taxfoundation.org/article/2016-tax-brackets) so you would be taking home 37,500 a year with which to meet current expenses and pay off loan (lets assume a 96 month payment plan(at 3% annual interest which is probably low) of ~646 per month) which reduces your take home pay to just under 30k per year for other expenses

in Sweden tax rate is 57%(http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/personal-income-tax-rate)
so 50000 per year becomes 21500 and about half of that difference in tax is there higher education programs and subsidies so your looking at paying 8k per year for the rest of your working life for your "free" college.

Additionally 50000 is really low for a post graduation job salary, and making more than that INCREASES the amount you pay for your "Free" college whereas in the US having extra money to throw at your debt earlier decreases the amount you wind up paying overall. but overall in both these scenarios you are going to wind up paying 8k per year for your college it is just that in one of them there is a clear stopping point.

TLDR on that the difference in taxes needed to pay for the "free" college is so high that its really not worth it even at current rates.


First of all, those are nominal tax rates, not effective ones. You would only pay the nominal rate if you were eligible for no exemptions, deductions, or credits whatsoever. Secondly, with US federal income tax you do not pay a flat rate dependent upon your gross income in one big lump sum. You pay a progressively increasing rate on each portion of your income that falls within each bracket. That is, at the 2016 rates you'd pay 10% on your first $9,275, then 15% on everything between $9,276 and $37,650, and then you would pay 25% only on everything between $37,651 and $50,000. It's not 25% straight out of the gates and all the way to $50,000. That would be a proportional tax, not a progressive one. The fact that you were willing to accept an effective 25% proportional federal income tax rate before state income tax, property tax, and so on even came into the picture, however, is about to become monumentally important. But first, a bit about income tax in Sweden.

In Sweden your income tax burden is essentially composed of local tax paid to a combination of municipal and county authorities and state tax paid to the central government. State tax in Sweden only kicks in after you break a minimum taxable income threshold, and after it kicks in it only applies to income exceeding that threshold. The state income tax rate is set progressively between two brackets taxed at 20% and 25% while local taxes are levied proportionally with a lot of variation in their rates from municipality to municipality. The average local tax rate for 2014 was 31.86%. The nominal rates are admittedly very high, but they're not the effective rates.

Let's have a look at an example computation from the Swedish Tax Agency's 2015 statistical yearbook to get an idea of what deductions can do for someone making pretty good money in Sweden:



The average SEK:USD exchange rate in 2014 (7.138 per the IRS) makes that net employment income amount to $63,042 (above the $50,000 you asked us to assume), and yet this person is decidedly not paying an effective income tax rate of 57% as you claim they would be. You've been looking at the top marginal rate, which in 2014 only kicked in after 602,600 crowns (about $84,400). The example computation produces a total effective tax burden amounting to $18,517, or about 29% of the individual's income between earned income, real estate fees (basically an alternative to property tax) and capital gains. Pull out the capital gains tax and real estate fee and it goes down even more. In fact, it approaches 25% of their income if you do that. Full disclosure on the final figure, though: I'm excluding the pension contribution since it's tax exempt.

See? I told you it was monumentally important.

You were willing to accept an effective, proportional federal income tax rate of 25% before any other part of your hypothetical total tax bill had even been tallied, and that was without a guarantee that you, your children, your grandchildren, your nieces, your nephews, your neighbours' children, and so on would all be able to attend vocational school or university as they needed and were able. Why is 25% suddenly too much when the money is to be spent guaranteeing that alongside things like healthcare that's borderline free at the point of access, a generous maternal and paternal leave system, and so on? It doesn't make sense.
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 9/30/16
Americans get so stupidly pissy about raising taxes i find.

Where i live taxes go towards healthcare and a certain amount goes to college/university.

that's how it should be imo.
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 9/30/16

Kira0309 wrote:

People always cry out "free education", meanwhile teachers get screwed.


Teachers get screwed due to poor systems.
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24 / F / Charleston, South...
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Posted 9/30/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:

People always cry out "free education", meanwhile teachers get screwed.


Teachers get screwed due to poor systems.


Oh hey(:
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 9/30/16

WynterBayumm wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:

People always cry out "free education", meanwhile teachers get screwed.


Teachers get screwed due to poor systems.


Oh hey(:


? hi
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24 / F / Charleston, South...
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Posted 9/30/16

Ryulightorb wrote:


WynterBayumm wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


Kira0309 wrote:

People always cry out "free education", meanwhile teachers get screwed.


Teachers get screwed due to poor systems.


Oh hey(:


? hi


Tensions seem high here.
I just wanted to say hi.
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23 / M
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Posted 9/30/16
I haven't followed the elections much. From what I can tell, the current system can obviously be better: the poor get to go to college for free, the rich obviously don't worry about the bill, and the middle class gets screwed (no financial aid). But to me, the real test is whether people understand why they're going to college, and being dedicated.

I can personally say that I was a screwup - I didn't have the discipline or maturity to appreciate my full academic scholarship, and lost it pretty quickly.
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