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Post Reply 2016 Election: Vice Presidential Debate: Mike Pence v. Tim Kaine
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...debate has gone bad places...
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He's really going to go the abortion route here? Voluntarily? After implying god told him to go into politics? Gyaaagh. The cringe. Stahp. Few things are more cringeworthy than a politician being religious to begin with. Nevermind gurgling up a bitter topic like that for points.



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The saddest part about all of that was Pence by himself is a far stronger presidential candidate than Trump. But he has Trump roped around his ankle while he tries to tread water. Pence was at his best when he didn't have to defend some idiotic thing Trump said out loud and Kaine was at his best when reminding Pence about some idiotic thing Trump said out loud.
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Twitter likes him, though.
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runec wrote:

The saddest part about all of that was Pence by himself is a far stronger presidential candidate than Trump. But he has Trump roped around his ankle while he tries to tread water. Pence was at his best when he didn't have to defend some idiotic thing Trump said out loud and Kaine was at his best when reminding Pence about some idiotic thing Trump said out loud.


This is why they would have been better served with someone like Chris Christie, even if that meant addressing some scandal. The Trump campaign can't defend. It's always been his style to attack relentlessly and ignore criticism. They should have doubled down on that instead of trying to add "respectability" with Pence. Pence did a great job tonight. But tomorrow, Trump will be back on the front page of every news outlet, saying something new and outrageous. Nobody will remember Pence a week from now.
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Posted 10/4/16 , edited 10/4/16
Hopefully they'll have a REAL debate sometime, and not just an unmoderated CNBC/Fox News fest where they get to jabber over each other and play for nyah-nyah's.
Kaine is a good candidate, but he thought he was there to be smug and cutesy, which gave Pence the illusion of actually looking competent and sensible by comparison.

When Pence was answering, you could audibly hear the moderator on the very verge of telling Kaine "Er, Governor?...SHUT!! UP!!"
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kinga750 wrote:
This is why they would have been better served with someone like Chris Christie, even if that meant addressing some scandal. The Trump campaign can't defend. It's always been his style to attack relentlessly and ignore criticism. They should have doubled down on that instead of trying to add "respectability" with Pence. Pence did a great job tonight. But tomorrow, Trump will be back on the front page of every news outlet, saying something new and outrageous. Nobody will remember Pence a week from now.


Picking Christie would have saved Pence some respectability and Christie some self esteem. But I doubt it would help. You want your VP to be there to roll out the thunder when you need it like Biden. While you remain presidential. Trump's campaign has the dynamic completely reversed and dialed up to 11. Christie would have just been a sweatier, less confident version of Trump repeating the same lines as Trump.

Pence at least gave us some shred of civility to the proceedings again. A debate between Hillary and Pence would have been far more illuminating and informative of both their plans and platforms. While demonstrating to the rest of the world America hasn't lost its mind. But relentlessly attack and ignore criticism ( along with reason and advice ) in this case only works if you lack both shame and self awareness.

Getting a second person who could keep up with Trump wouldn't work because two personalities like Trump could no co-exist. His campaign has enough internal strife as is with a second Trump in it vying for dominance.

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runec wrote:


kinga750 wrote:
This is why they would have been better served with someone like Chris Christie, even if that meant addressing some scandal. The Trump campaign can't defend. It's always been his style to attack relentlessly and ignore criticism. They should have doubled down on that instead of trying to add "respectability" with Pence. Pence did a great job tonight. But tomorrow, Trump will be back on the front page of every news outlet, saying something new and outrageous. Nobody will remember Pence a week from now.


Picking Christie would have saved Pence some respectability and Christie some self esteem. But I doubt it would help. You want your VP to be there to roll out the thunder when you need it like Biden. While you remain presidential. Trump's campaign has the dynamic completely reversed and dialed up to 11. Christie would have just been a sweatier, less confident version of Trump repeating the same lines as Trump.

Pence at least gave us some shred of civility to the proceedings again. A debate between Hillary and Pence would have been far more illuminating and informative of both their plans and platforms. While demonstrating to the rest of the world America hasn't lost its mind. But relentlessly attack and ignore criticism ( along with reason and advice ) in this case only works if you lack both shame and self awareness.

Getting a second person who could keep up with Trump wouldn't work because two personalities like Trump could no co-exist. His campaign has enough internal strife as is with a second Trump in it vying for dominance.



I don't know, it seems better than what they have going on now... Essentially two separate campaigns pretending to be in cohesion even though they are delivering entirely different messages. Someone like Christie could have attacked Clinton relentlessly and consistently and stayed on message in a way that even Trump can't. He would have eaten a guy like Kaine for breakfast. Maybe Pence brings in some voters who would have wavered otherwise, but in the day to day of the campaign he really doesn't have an impact.
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God, Kaine has this face that says "I'm a condescending douchebag, deal with it."
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I wound up missing out on most of the debate as white noise. Sounded decent at first and then descended into bickering about who's lobbed more insults. Seemed kind of tame, but then I guess anything would be in comparison to the first presidential debate.
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Ejanss wrote:

Hopefully they'll have a REAL debate, and not just an unmoderated CNBC/Fox News fest where they get to jabber over each other and play for nyah-nyah's.
Kaine is a good candidate, but he thought he was there to be smug and cutesy, which gave Pence the illusion of actually looking competent and sensible by comparison.

When Pence was answering, you could audibly hear the moderator on the very verge of telling Kaine "Er, Governor?...SHUT! UP!!"


We all see what we want to see I guess. I thought they were both handling themselves well under the circumstances. The moderator did have to choke them both out more than a few times though and good on her for doing it. She had no patience for repeated yank ups of tired topics either.

But like I said, Pence's biggest problem was being put in a position where he had to defend the indefensible and the main thing Kaine had to do was keep putting Pence in that position to remind viewers that Trump was running for president, not Pence. Sucks for Pence but he did sign on for this.

I do get the impression Pence was given some marching orders he couldn't deviate from though. Even though it would open him ( or rather Trump ) up to some pretty obvious counter attacks from Kaine. Bringing up the Clinton foundation for instance opened up the Trump foundation as a counter topic. Trying to randomly bring up the emails over and over just peeved off the moderator. Those are topics that really only work on the faithful at this point. Rehashing them isn't going to gain any new ground.

And new ground is what Trump needs. He has not held any significant lead over Clinton for any significant amount of time. In fact he's spent most of this race behind and is once again falling behind since the first presidential debate. You can't win an election with one demographic and you can't open new ground with other demographics by repeating yourself ( and, honestly, doing more to drive away the demographics you need most ).

Coming in to the debate he was closing back in on Clinton as close as it was right before the RNC / DNC in the 538 forecast. Now he's freefalling again since the debate.
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qwueri wrote:
I wound up missing out on most of the debate as white bread.


Fixed that for you.

You didn't have to watch the debate you know. You could have just taken two loaves of white bread, written "Emails" on one and "Putin" on the other than slowly smooshed them together for an hour.




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