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Post Reply Drawing anime doesn't make you good i think
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16

That's a very very big and inaccurate assumption, I hate still life, I hate drawing from life unless I distort it in one way or another. I have been like that since I began art and have only taken one class (years after I started and broke into the field) to learn the fundamentals traditionally. I couldn't stand still life during that class and haven't had any special interest in anatomy of actual people. I have never stopped to study them for any long or significant period of time and the only study I have done on them have come from the stylized works of other artists I have encountered and incorporated in to my own style. (not necessarily anime but definitely not realistic).

The "weird looking faces and bodies in art" are only weird in your opinion, they may not be anatomically correct but again, that doesn't make them weird or less skillful.

I used to do design work for zoos professionally and have developed into a decent artist with just about zero dealings in "realism" or all the traditional methods people drone on about these days. Talent isn't a word I use a lot and never to describe myself but the notion that you MUST practice in any one style or one way to understand art is what kills creativity and development.

My own work included which you couldn't call realistic or "bad" for any standard artist.

(Poor scan from my first manga so contrasts are a little harsher in this pic than they're meant to be)




TL/DR

I didn't study any traditional art and I have rarely if ever drawn realistically and think I would qualify as "good". It probably helps and you would probably be wise to do it, but the idea that you NEED to do any one particular thing to develop as an artist (outside of practice) or that accurate anatomy makes your work somehow more authentic when it's stylized is absurd.


EDIT:
Also editing yo say your critiques of those other pictures is off too. Pointing out stuff like thin arms or an elongated neck and saying is the reason it isn't "dynamic" is just not true. Have you read One Piece? Luffy is just about the least anatomically correct character in any manga during a fight scene but you would be crazy to say the art isn't dynamic. Unless that sort of accuracy is an element you want to bring to your style, it isn't a necessary thing.
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Posted 10/10/16
don't agree with you
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16


I'm typing this hastily, so i hope it makes sense.

I'm not wrong. Foundations are gr8, you can build upon those, and twist them even!
And that gives versatility, something highly desired in the professional artistic fields. It fosters creativity. The more intimate you know something, the more you can play with it.

The fact that they are vital is not an "assumption" of any sort, just because you think they are, or feel you don't need them, doesn't mean they aren't absolutely integral and valuable. Heck, i saw Picasso mentioned before, and even he started off with knowing the foundations, because they are useful, and you are always better knowing them than you would be without them.
Ask any of the Concept/Environmental Artists for any movies or games you like, even Disney animators, and animators in general will agree that the foundations are, well, fundamental. If you don't believe me check Industry places like ConceptArt.org, where they have frequent industry job listings.


It's not dynamic because it's stiff,straight like a board. The Luffy example you used is a classic art technique that i believe is called squash & stretching ( memory is foggy), when you elongate or exaggerate a pose so that a certain feeling or an attitudes comes forth. A technique the artwork we are talking about doesn't have. I personally don't have a problem with the arms being thin, i said that it was a stylistic choice that i didn't mind, i just pointed it out that it's not necessarily accurate. And it isn't, any trained eye will tell you that.

FYI, i never said any of the quoted artworks were ugly, so i hope no one assumed that. I thought they were all lovely. I just used them as examples cause they were there and ready, no need for me to do any work. Heck, my favorite one was the most stylised one (the swirly one with birds).
My comment was aimed at manga art in general, like u know,"Yaoi Hands", mouths on the cheekbones while in profile, reversed elbows, thinks you can see in manga regularly, not neccesarily the more well known ones. That absolutely doesn't mean i think every manga is hideous...i don't think i'd be in an anime forum if i did!

Look, i'm not here to convince, and your mind seems set in stone, but the OP, as crazy and nonsensical as they could sound at times did have a very valid point, at the very least in the topic of the thread title.
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Posted 10/10/16


See how the hair is strategically placed around the arm, so as to hide how it drapes? That's a pretty common trick, and it helps disguise the fact that there's no real discernible way to see which arm is which, because the artist doesn't know how to create that difference. THAT'S what i referred to. Not the fingers. If you look even closer at how the clothes drape (shoulder) you can see it looks almost as if the whole arm is pressed against a window looking flattened, until you get to the arm. The neck shows a lack of knowledge, but maybe only a trained eye can notice that? Probably because everything that might give the flaws away is strategically hidden. I dunno. I mean, it's still a pretty image, but facts are facts.
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16

NuclearCold wrote:

The Luffy example you used is a classic art technique that i believe is called squash & stretching ( memory is foggy), when you elongate or exaggerate a pose so that a certain feeling or an attitudes comes forth.


Squash & Stretch is a principle of animation that is used to exaggerate motion. It can draw attention to figures or help sell the inherent properties of an object (such as how hard/soft/elastic it is). The key to executing it well is to keep the apparent volume of the object/character the same.

The main reason why people don't take to 3D animation as much as classic Disney is because rigging models for proper Squash & Stretch is extremely difficult. Squash & Stretch works best from a fixed perspective making implementing it well in 3D games even more of a challenge.

A still-frame of this principle in action tends to look quite ridiculous and unappealing. To make a static pose really pop good perspective and foreshortening is key.



Here is an extreme key frame for the ultimate ability of League of Legends champion Darius. Look at that stretch! LoL makes good use of this because of the game's limited perspective. (sorry it's so dark, unfortunately the crop I got here is playing an optical illusion making his arms seem invisible)
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16
I think there's a difference between practicing drawing in an ideal way and drawing for fun or whatever reason. Intentionally studying the fundamentals and drawing based on reality is the fastest way to make your drawings look "right" even when you're exaggerating or changing angles, drawings remain consistant and you don't get unintentional mistakes as much. Reality is always the base of all drawing that's the only thing we know after all. All drawings regardless of style are just different variations of reality with improvisation.

Still while that's all good and shit for efficiency, it doesn't matter much unless you actually have the will to practice that way. In the end drawing a lot is how you get good at it and regardless of what or how you draw, you won't be perfect in a week. Because of that it's really the best to practice in the way you find most pleasant, no use drawing still-life if you're just going to quit after a month. There's many ways to do things and people should pick what suits them best. Just drawing gives intuitive understanding of things and when you're good with one style, its much easier to learn others regardless. If there's a problem with a drawing it's almost always because the creator is not experienced enough, nothing to do with the style used.



As for OPs post, idk what that was about so can't comment.
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Posted 10/10/16
You can be creative while still following a precise style, just like in music you attach to a precise genre, even if it has the same base elements, the end result is totaly different.
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Posted 10/10/16


That's actually pretty cool! And thanks for elaborating and filling me in, i haven't studied animation since high school. It just wasn't my thing, i don't have a lot of patience so redrawing something a bazillion times, with slight changes every time, wasn't my kind of fun.



Thank you, i feel you completely got what i was struggling to say. And i agree, if you are going to quit something (there's more to the fundamentals than just still life, a lot more) then there's no point in doing it in the first place, and that's fine. Just accept that you might not improve as fast as people with equal talent who do will. In fact, you might not even improve beyond a point. Beyond niche, the art industry is very competitive, and the quality of your work, and your versatility will speak more than any degree.

I went with the impression that the OP was trying to say something like that you aren't necessarily going to become a great artist if all the practice you do is of Anime, and that's very true. Because it can be limiting if that's all you do. And that they were encouraging the fundamentals, but then they went completely off the mark, and it ended up sounding kind of insulting (Specially the pervert eye thing).

Here's a few examples of how amazing things can look once you know the fundamentals.
Full links: http://www.zerochan.net/1988347 & http://www.zerochan.net/1988347

Similar to the artwork i critiqued before, both of these are simple upper body shots in profile. but you can already tell they're way more dynamic. The poses, while similar, are a lot more interesting due to the artists playing around with the angle, and the bodies are shaped in a way that you get a sense of gait instead of "stiff". The neck and ears aren't hidden, and the artist doesn't shy away from showing the draping. Both of these are also in different styles, one is more stylised and flatter, and the other is more realistic/CGI, but they're both obviously Anime inspired, and equally impressive. Though i guess to untrained eyes, both will look equally as realistic? Maybe?
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16
"Every artist whose worked on animation is a hack" is what I'm extrapolating from this argument.
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16
Can someone explain to me how trying to imitate Real Life through drawing is more creative then trying to create your own personal style of drawing?
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Posted 10/10/16

NuclearCold wrote:



See how the hair is strategically placed around the arm, so as to hide how it drapes? That's a pretty common trick, and it helps disguise the fact that there's no real discernible way to see which arm is which, because the artist doesn't know how to create that difference. THAT'S what i referred to. Not the fingers. If you look even closer at how the clothes drape (shoulder) you can see it looks almost as if the whole arm is pressed against a window looking flattened, until you get to the arm. The neck shows a lack of knowledge, but maybe only a trained eye can notice that? Probably because everything that might give the flaws away is strategically hidden. I dunno. I mean, it's still a pretty image, but facts are facts.


Um, the hair is around the opposite shoulder, not the arm, and you can even see a bit of sleeve on the left arm in front of the hair. And yes, there is a discernible way to tell what arm it is because of the fingers AND wrist position. Why do you have to immediately be able to tell which arm it is by looking at the body and long part of the arm? It's art and so therefore maybe the artist was trying to draw focus to the upper arm and face in their picture. And no, to me, it does not look like the body and arm are pressed against a window, just maybe pressed against the left side of the body some to lift the arm to the scarf. Perhaps the reason that the scarf is there is because of that lack of neck knowledge, so therefore that's why they drew that instead of her neck. I'm not an artist and haven't studied anatomy, but even I know that the scarf is covering more than just her neck and if you look closely enough, the neck would look to be the right length. As I said in my other post, art is subjective, including to the artist. So therefore maybe how the picture turned out is exactly what they were going for. We wouldn't know unless we actually asked the artist. And I'm sorry, but for someone who says that they use still life and real life as a model for their art, you seem very rigid in how you see art drawn of people. Not everyone out in the real world is cookie cutter made from the same material. There are people out there of all shapes and sizes, and perhaps the model this artist was using for their drawing was in fact a thin girl.
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Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16

BlackRose0607 wrote:
Um, the hair is around the opposite shoulder, not the arm, and you can even see a bit of sleeve on the left arm in front of the hair. And yes, there is a discernible way to tell what arm it is because of the fingers AND wrist position. Why do you have to immediately be able to tell which arm it is by looking at the body and long part of the arm? It's art and so therefore maybe the artist was trying to draw focus to the upper arm and face in their picture. And no, to me, it does not look like the body and arm are pressed against a window, just maybe pressed against the left side of the body some to lift the arm to the scarf. Perhaps the reason that the scarf is there is because of that lack of neck knowledge, so therefore that's why they drew that instead of her neck. I'm not an artist and haven't studied anatomy, but even I know that the scarf is covering more than just her neck and if you look closely enough, the neck would look to be the right length. As I said in my other post, art is subjective, including to the artist. So therefore maybe how the picture turned out is exactly what they were going for. We wouldn't know unless we actually asked the artist. And I'm sorry, but for someone who says that they use still life and real life as a model for their art, you seem very rigid in how you see art drawn of people. Not everyone out in the real world is cookie cutter made from the same material. There are people out there of all shapes and sizes, and perhaps the model this artist was using for their drawing was in fact a thin girl.


Because it's representative art, no matter how stylised? So you should directly be able to see which side a limb is coming from lol? You seem really pressed about this. Do you hear yourself grasping at straws to defend something that you, yourself admit have no idea about? Man, you even admit that there's a chance the artist drew the scarf the way it's drawn, because they don't really know how to solve it and it might be a problem area, but then you go on to say that the neck is correct. So which is it?

There's also a very real thing called untrained eyes. For example, If you don't know math, then you aren't going to notice when someone did a wrong equation. Because you don't do it, you have no experience in it. Or in Anime terms, someone that's not an animator will probably not notice how many frames an animation has, or if it's done in 1's, 2's, or 3's.

Actually, you seem far more rigid than i am.
I accept the fact that i can like something that's flawed, and that the flaws do not devaluate the enjoyment i can take from it, you on the other hand seem to think flaws devaluate the actual value of the artwork. Look, no one said you can't like a pretty image, i recognised myself that the artwork is pretty, but flaws are flaws and no artwork is exempt from critique. In fact art thrives on critique, critique helps artists improve.
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Posted 10/10/16

Deyre wrote:

Find a pencil and draw realistic people is my suggestions.

Since its overly sized eyes and unrealistic and doesn't resemble human beings. Dramas is not real life. But my point is overly perverted eyes doesn't make it real more or less. I dont hate or dislike anime i just think its wrong for people to not use their talent and creativity to create something on their own.

I mean it may be fun to draw Sonic and Shadow from Sonic series, but i don't think it would be creative on keeping on it. Atleast what i think when it comes to drawing stuff you wanna draw. Pencil is your best tool.


You have no idea how ignorant you sound.

I use a pencil and draw anime. Just because I don't draw realism (like I guess you do) doesn't make me any less creative. If it is something a person enjoys drawing that's what makes it fun. I don't know if you draw realism for a living or what but you're basically dumping on everyone who makes anime.

How is drawing realism all that different from drawing anime in terms of creativity? All you're doing is copying what you see. I am doing the exact thing by taking an image that I visually see in anime and redraw it freehand. Just because people don't want to draw the same crap you want to doesn't make us worse at art.
Posted 10/10/16 , edited 10/10/16
The age of realism is long over...not that anime characters are in...but in the art world...the more abstract the better?

It's about originality these days, not realism. I mean anybody could make a perfect clone of the Mona Lisa, but not everybody can paint something original.
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Posted 10/10/16
I wish I could just draw. From anime to things non-anime related.
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