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Post Reply ‘Learn your manners,’ a white man wrote to his black neighbor. This was the response
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25 / M / Georgia, USA
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Posted 10/11/16 , edited 10/11/16

cdarklock wrote:


You're also trying to claim that


Citations needed
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42 / M
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Posted 10/11/16
Okay having lived in apartments growing up it is extremely annoying to hear the person above you stomping around at all hours with that said threatening the police is a bit too much. Maybe it's just me but back in the day we used to go talk to the noise makers and sometimes the noisemakers were us and someone would come talk to us. Kindness, understanding, manners and empathy are something we could all use a bit more of. Communication is key in developing these skills. Treat others how you would want to be treated and all that.........but I can get how some people might be afraid to confront someone face to face. Not everyone will react the same and being a black person do you really want to be knocking on a strangers door? Definitely not at night that's for sure. There's been a lot of cases where a black person seeking help was shot through a door mainly at night. I can see both point of views here but threatening usually doesn't work well whereas just letting someone know how you feel without the threats usually goes a long way.....usually.
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Posted 10/11/16
Can't they both be anal and self important?

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25 / M / Georgia, USA
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Posted 10/11/16
Sure, but one is infinitely worse than the other. One just wants to sleep, the other turns his wrong doing into a rant about the myth of black victimization.
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28 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 10/11/16 , edited 10/11/16

cdarklock wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Except that statistics show that more whites are shot by police than black, period.


More whites are arrested than blacks, period.

That's a fact. Check whatever database you like.

But more blacks are in prison. So how does that work, exactly?

Are cops just arresting innocent white people for no reason and then letting them go?

Why aren't you mad about that?


Your entire argument is a strawman and red herring. It does nothing to counter what Amyas_Leigh has said but is an attempt to hide the fact that you were wrong with handwaving.
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28 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 10/11/16

TheOriginalStraynge wrote:

Okay having lived in apartments growing up it is extremely annoying to hear the person above you stomping around at all hours with that said threatening the police is a bit too much. Maybe it's just me but back in the day we used to go talk to the noise makers and sometimes the noisemakers were us and someone would come talk to us. Kindness, understanding, manners and empathy are something we could all use a bit more of. Communication is key in developing these skills. Treat others how you would want to be treated and all that.........but I can get how some people might be afraid to confront someone face to face. Not everyone will react the same and being a black person do you really want to be knocking on a strangers door? Definitely not at night that's for sure. There's been a lot of cases where a black person seeking help was shot through a door mainly at night. I can see both point of views here but threatening usually doesn't work well whereas just letting someone know how you feel without the threats usually goes a long way.....usually.


They thought they were hearing an argument or domestic dispute. The last thing you want to do at night is get directly involved when there's already yelling and cursing. It's not like it was music playing or a TV.
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47 / M / Auburn, Washington
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Posted 10/11/16

zinjashike wrote:

Your entire argument is a strawman and red herring.


You don't understand my argument, which is fundamentally that RAW statistics are not an accurate picture.

- More whites are shot than blacks <- True
- More whites are arrested than blacks <- True
- More blacks are in prison than whites <- True

You are not expected to understand this. Smart people, however, are expected to see you not understand this and know that you are stupid.
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Posted 10/11/16

MrAnimeSK wrote:

Hmm i've put letters in neighbours mail boxes about their fucking annoying barking dogs, never even considered that even something like that could possibly be considered racist.
Sad times, sad times that we live in.
I swear racisim was slowly becoming less and less common but now it's almost an an all time high. But not actual racisim. It's the new age meaning of the word.... It's sad.


its really just become a bad...fad. at this point
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28 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 10/11/16 , edited 10/11/16

cdarklock wrote:


zinjashike wrote:

Your entire argument is a strawman and red herring.


You don't understand my argument, which is fundamentally that RAW statistics are not an accurate picture.


Prison time and arrests have infinitely more variables to them, which you would know if you actually attempted to learn rather than confuse. Instead you simply confuse yourself!

An arrest is not a guarantee of a conviction. Charges can be dropped. Equally, there's a difference in length for crimes committed which do have prison time associated. Blacks are more likely to have a felony conviction compared to non-blacks. Equally, this says nothing in relation to education and wealth in mounting a legal defense. Lastly, it does not cover anything in relation to a plea deal.

When looking at the direct interaction with the police themselves though - this doesn't fucking matter and you know it. You assert that a cop being called for a noise complaint is a death sentence for a black man, but evidence has been provided counter to this claim. If you have an explanation as to why the stats cited by Amyas_Leigh is erroneous it is up to you to dispute it. Rather than doing so, you've tried to say "here's another statistics that can be misconstrued, so obviously these can too!" which isn't an actual argument. It's a red herring, thus addressed as such.

Either point to the erroneous reasoning or take your ball and leave. Your arguments are disingenuous and lead people to question your character. Ultimately if you even are right, this reasoning is not apt in explaining why as it's based on a logical fallacy - it would ultimately be coincidence at this point and not your actual knowledge. Ultimately, you've proven ignorant.
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47 / M / Auburn, Washington
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Posted 10/11/16

zinjashike wrote:

Prison time and arrests have infinitely more variables to them


...than shootings?

You're not being intellectually honest here. You look until you find answers you like, and then you stop looking. Your interest is not in the truth, but in your own bullshit explanation of something you don't understand.
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28 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 10/11/16

cdarklock wrote:


zinjashike wrote:

Prison time and arrests have infinitely more variables to them


...than shootings?


When you combine the two like you're attempting - yes. You're trying to take two independent stats in an attempt to find causation from correlation thus bringing two independent sets of variables together. Equally many involve legal proceedings which due to the amount of steps in the process introduce greater numbers of variables along the way.


You're not being intellectually honest here. You look until you find answers you like, and then you stop looking. Your interest is not in the truth, but in your own bullshit explanation of something you don't understand.


You sidestep again. Either address the problem with the stats cited or stop moaning when people call you on a logical fallacy.

The reality is your initial assertion is factually incorrect.

This is your original assertion:


cdarklock wrote:

White people threaten to call the police on each other ALL THE TIME.

That's a cultural thing, because when the cops get called on a white guy, they strut around being menacing and acting like dicks for ten minutes, then give you a stern warning and leave.

But when the cops get called on a minority, sometimes people get shot. For no good reason. It's stupid. And it's been like that... shit, literally as long as I can remember. Like, it was happening thirty years ago.

So to a black man, "I will call the cops" is basically a death threat.

Both sides of this were just a little bit ignorant of the other. Trouble is, these days, you're only allowed to criticise the white guy...


Here's the refutation. In reality, they are more likely to strut around and be menacing to the black individual with some man handling and are more likely to shoot the white.

There are definite issues surrounding the police's place in society and how they treat individuals. The reality though is that your initial assertion is today mistaken. If you said calling the police would be interpreted as a more severe threat to someone black than to the typical white you might be able to argue based on mistaken notions of police by white people and distrust of police that is widespread in black communities (something that everyone should adopt). A death threat or sentence by shooting however it is not - it would be a mistaken view held by the individual.


Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Look up behavioral genetics and maybe you will understand


I disagree with it being genetic. This strikes me as a culture thing first and foremost.
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Posted 10/11/16

dragontackle wrote:

Seriously though. I really done see it as necessary to call the police. Inform the landlord and go from there. Thats seriously a waste of police time.


That is exactly what happened here though. In the first letter they stated that they submitted a complaint to the management about it. The police was only going to be an option if things weren't fixed.

It may end up being a waste of police time but I would still say that if a confrontation is needed to stop noise it would be better to let them handle it because you never know what could happen. People flip out over crazy things and this guy is obviously not right in the head to try and turn it into a racial issue. If it was a neighbor they have at least spoken to a couple times and had some kind of basic rapport with then police wouldn't be needed even in a case where confrontation was needed. Since this was a complete stranger, who seemed to be stomping and screaming at the time, it wouldn't be the greatest idea to try and do anything yourself about it.
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47 / M / Auburn, Washington
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Posted 10/11/16

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Look up behavioral genetics and maybe you will understand



I am familiar with behavioural genetics. While it is a good descriptor of what you seem to be arguing - that blacks are inherently violent and criminal - there exists absolutely no meaningful study to suggest that ANY race is inherently violent or criminal. You are, indeed, making an argument for behavioural genetics. However, the field does not support your argument. You don't seem to know much about it beyond the name.


zinjashike wrote:

You're trying to take two independent stats in an attempt to find causation from correlation


No, I'm using different statistics to illustrate a cognitive bias.


You sidestep again. Either address the problem with the stats cited or stop moaning when people call you on a logical fallacy.


It's not a fallacy. You don't understand the argument.

In response to a simplistic bullshit statistic, I produced another simplistic bullshit statistic.

If that is objectionable, then the original statistic is just as objectionable. You can't object to one and not the other.

There are FIVE TIMES as many white people as black people in the US. We would expect there to be five times as many shootings and arrests and guilty verdicts. There aren't. That means something. It might mean a whole lot of different things, but "blacks are predisposed to crime" is a rather extraordinary hypothesis. "Cops are racist" seems much more likely, as do "the system is biased" and "the poor live in fear" and "bad neighbourhoods make cops edgy."

All of those probably have some merit, but if we're interested in fixing the problem - and I think we should be - we have to start somewhere. So we need to begin with what we can control - the system and the cops - and recognise that "edgy" isn't something we can do much about. The system will take a long time to fix. But racist cops can be fixed with some screening and bodycams and an admission that, you know, there IS a problem.

When we resist that, for whatever reasons, it looks a whole lot like we just don't care if black people are getting shot. Hence, #blacklivesmatter and not #alllivesmatter, because when you are trying to raise awareness about butt cancer you don't use a hashtag about cancer in general. That's counterproductive.


In reality, they are more likely to strut around and be menacing to the black individual with some man handling


That's true, in the absence of all other factors. If someone DOES NOTHING and police ARE NOT CALLED, it is far more likely that police will arbitrarily and independently decide to harass a black man.

It seems kind of stupid to suggest that this is all the farther it goes, and while police will harass a black man for no reason, they wouldn't arrest or imprison or shoot him for no reason. That doesn't pass the sniff test.


and are more likely to shoot the white.


Not when they got called by some crank. Like I said: white people call the police on each other ALL THE TIME. They show up and ask questions and leave. That's all. It's happened to me a whole lot, because people don't like my music and I like to play it loud.


I disagree with it being genetic. This strikes me as a culture thing first and foremost.


That's my thought on it, too. I think a large amount of it is not so much "black culture" as "ghetto culture," which is mostly about where you live and who your neighbours are... not the colour of your skin.

The scenario from the OP is a black man enmired in ghetto culture, where cops are dangerous, and a white man operating from an upper middle-class stance where cops are a nuisance. All he wanted to do was say "if you annoy me again, I will annoy you RIGHT BACK." But his upstairs neighbour heard "if you annoy me again, I will have you SHOT." Because you can take the boy out of the bay, but you can't take the bay out of the boy... so with all the "making it" a man does, he's still going to think the way his upbringing taught him to think.

And, statistics aside, WHAT HE THINKS IS NOT NECESSARILY A FACT. Just like the people here in this thread trying to put the uppity nigger in his place by howling about the criminal eugenics of the black species.

At the risk of being offensive, what we have here is a failure to communicate.
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26 / M / United States
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Posted 10/11/16
Surprise surprise, the race card has been pulled again. As if we don't get enough of that nonsense these days.
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