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Post Reply Flying spaghetti monster and other invalid parallels
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

Deyre wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Deyre wrote:

Paul the Apostle. There is only one paul in the bible???. Paul, persecutor of the church, becomes a Christian and an apostle, martyred in Rome. That guy


Yes, but there is far more to a person than what the person does. What was he, before all that you've described?


btw i heard Paul people who dislike Paul saying he was from the tribe of benjamin, and since Jesus says beware of false prophets, they come like ravaging wolves (Because tribe of benjamin have an emblem of a wolf "sort of like illuminati joke or something :3 ". Which is funny because Jesus is from the tribe of judah i think or Lion of Judah, not 100% sure. Anyways the kingdom of judah was the one who was south when it split Israel in 2 after King Solomon. 11 tribes i think joined "Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) in the north which had just bad corrupt kings, kingdom of judah in the south had only one tribe that supported it called tribe of benjamin, Kingdom of Judah having some righteous kings but not all, so i do find it funny how anti paul people forget about that XD

Either way. Paul was Paul : 3. I like the name Paul


You still haven't really answered my question. Please do so.

edit: I think it's time to speed this along a little. You typed "he was from the tribe of benjamin". What does that mean?

edit2: It seems that you've heard a lot of noise from others. I ask you to ignore that kind of noise.

edit3: To tie all of this back to the original point of contention- After you ascertain Paul's identity, does the accusation of him making "antisemitic" statements ring true anymore.
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Posted 10/22/16
I am finding a disturbing lack of why the Flying Spaghetti Monster was created.

In a Kansas Education board, they wanted to teach creationism instead of evolution. This was in a government run school. That wouldnt just fly. So our prophet, Bobby, said that if they wanted to teach Christian creationism, he wanted his Pastafarian creationism to also be taught. This effectively caused the Kansas Board of Education to drop their idiocy.

Since that day, the Flying Spaghetti Monster has expanded in followers. This is most likely due to the fact the FSM is kinder than any Abrahamic god (even hell isn't too bad!) and it explains a lot of science that the bible can not.

Also, I would argue it is a parallel. All gods have been created by man, as this one has too. The Greek gods, the Norse gods, the Japanese gods, the African gods, the Aztec gods. Unless you will tell me you believe in the thousands of gods, then the Abrahamic god is no different.
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


Deyre wrote:

This guy


Answer with words, please. I assure you it's not what you "pictured".


You can't discuss Christianity and never have heard of Paul. It can't be done. Which brings up a few interesting questions about the backgrounds and research that most angry atheists start out with before they decide to take on the Crazy World, but since yours seems to be an honest question, we'll leave that for later.

Brief answer--Paul wrote the Letters of Paul, which constitute most of the latter half of the New Testament after Jesus's exit and Acts.
Peter had been put in charge, but nobody quite knew what form Christianity was going to take (was it going to be the same closed sect of Judaism, only with a few new rules changed? Many "false prophet" cheap Messiah-wannabes were also trying to start movements.)
Paul, a Roman who had been converted, cleared up most of the questions, in his communications to the struggling churches in Thessalonia, Ephesia, etc., and even hoped to sell it to the Romans. You're free to pursue your own analyses and source material, but the short version is that Paul's views made it a quite different and more universal religion than Judaism had been up to that point.
For every Great-Idea Guru, you also need the Guy Who Can Make It Work.
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:

I am finding a disturbing lack of why the Flying Spaghetti Monster was created.

In a Kansas Education board, they wanted to teach creationism instead of evolution. This was in a government run school. That wouldnt just fly. So our prophet, Bobby, said that if they wanted to teach Christian creationism, he wanted his Pastafarian creationism to also be taught. This effectively caused the Kansas Board of Education to drop their idiocy.

Since that day, the Flying Spaghetti Monster has expanded in followers. This is most likely due to the fact the FSM is kinder than any Abrahamic god (even hell isn't too bad!) and it explains a lot of science that the bible can not.

Also, I would argue it is a parallel. All gods have been created by man, as this one has too. The Greek gods, the Norse gods, the Japanese gods, the African gods, the Aztec gods. Unless you will tell me you believe in the thousands of gods, then the Abrahamic god is no different.


I posted the link to Church of FSM more than once and mentioned the site's creator more than once.

It's an invalid parallel, because the non-FSM things you've mentioned are not parodies. Please re-read my original post.

edit: the other ones you've mentioned (up to and including FSM itself) do not involve genuine testimony as is found by Greenleaf.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


I posted the link to Church of FSM more than once and mentioned the site's creator more than once.

It's an invalid parallel, because the non-FSM things you've mentioned are not parodies. Please re-read my original post.

edit: the other ones you've mentioned (up to and including FSM itself) do not involve genuine testimony as is found by Greenleaf.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html


Wait, Yahweh isn't a parody? Damn, I have been looking at religion wrong for a long time.

I always thought the bible was a parody of Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and other pagan religions/gods and people...

Also, which one is the real Christian god? There are over 1 thousand variations of him and Jesus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


I posted the link to Church of FSM more than once and mentioned the site's creator more than once.

It's an invalid parallel, because the non-FSM things you've mentioned are not parodies. Please re-read my original post.

edit: the other ones you've mentioned (up to and including FSM itself) do not involve genuine testimony as is found by Greenleaf.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html


Wait, Yahweh isn't a parody? Damn, I have been looking at religion wrong for a long time.

I always thought the bible was a parody of Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and other pagan religions/gods and people...

Also, which one is the real Christian god? There are over 1 thousand variations of him and Jesus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


No, not a myth.

If you just want to trade links then you can have this one

http://christianthinktank.com/copycat.html

edit: You misunderstand what denominations are. Each stresses a specific aspect of teaching. Every single denomination still adheres to the same basic creed.

another link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16
I will be frank, I have no want to read a long article that confirms that Jesus was very similar to religions well before him. Feel free to read it and give me TLDRs with paragraph numbers so I can check you source!

Edit: Your god IS A MYTH until you can provide factual evidence (not the bible, not a preachers words, not a popes words). In my Universities debate field, they say you can not religion as an argument as it has no factual base. Don't fall into the trap please.
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


I will be frank, I have no want to read a long article that confirms that Jesus was very similar to religions well before him. Feel free to read it and give me TLDRs with paragraph numbers so I can check you source!


If you insist on using logical fallacies then I have no business with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

edit: I see that examination by eyewitness testimony means nothing to you. However, it is used in courts. Please read what Greenleaf had to say should you change your mind regarding it.

edit2: I don't care what field you're from. That's appealing to authority. I think you've heard of such a fallacy.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


I will be frank, I have no want to read a long article that confirms that Jesus was very similar to religions well before him. Feel free to read it and give me TLDRs with paragraph numbers so I can check you source!


If you insist on using logical fallacies then I have no business with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

edit: I see that examination by eyewitness testimony means nothing to you. However, it is used in courts. Please read what Greenleaf had to say should you change your mind regarding it.


Oh dear, you are one of those people. Have a good day I guess.

It is a pity you hate on the good followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He is legal god. Sad days. Typical Christian.

Kek
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


I will be frank, I have no want to read a long article that confirms that Jesus was very similar to religions well before him. Feel free to read it and give me TLDRs with paragraph numbers so I can check you source!


If you insist on using logical fallacies then I have no business with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

edit: I see that examination by eyewitness testimony means nothing to you. However, it is used in courts. Please read what Greenleaf had to say should you change your mind regarding it.


Oh dear, you are one of those people. Have a good day I guess.

It is a pity you hate on the good followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He is legal god. Sad days. Typical Christian.

Kek


Argumentum ad lapidem

Sophistry has its place, but not in a discussion.

edit: There is no equation between legality and metaphysical fact
/sigh
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


Argumentum ad lapidem

Sophistry has its place, but not in a discussion.

edit: There is no equation between legality and metaphysical fact
/sigh


I thought you were done with this conversation. Do you like me that much?
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Posted 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Argumentum ad lapidem

Sophistry has its place, but not in a discussion.

edit: There is no equation between legality and metaphysical fact
/sigh


I thought you were done with this conversation. Do you like me that much?


Honestly I don't like it when people use fallacies and all sorts of appeals in that category in order to swing people. That's manipulation and politics, not genuine philosophical discussion.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Argumentum ad lapidem

Sophistry has its place, but not in a discussion.

edit: There is no equation between legality and metaphysical fact
/sigh


I thought you were done with this conversation. Do you like me that much?


Honestly I don't like it when people use fallacies and all sorts of appeals in that category in order to swing people. That's manipulation and politics, not genuine philosophical discussion.


Anything regarding gods isn't worth arguing in my opinion. All gods do is brew war and hate. Think of gays, lesbians, transgenders. The hatred of women in the religious text. The crusades. The massacre of innocents in the names of god.

I never intended to debate with you. Gods are lies. Gods are hate. Gods are sin. That is why I don't take this seriously.

Do you want to guess how many "holy beatings" I have had happen to me in in elementary-high school? I got jumped, bones broken in the name of your god. I don't like that.
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Posted 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


Argumentum ad lapidem

Sophistry has its place, but not in a discussion.

edit: There is no equation between legality and metaphysical fact
/sigh


I thought you were done with this conversation. Do you like me that much?


Honestly I don't like it when people use fallacies and all sorts of appeals in that category in order to swing people. That's manipulation and politics, not genuine philosophical discussion.


Anything regarding gods isn't worth arguing in my opinion. All gods do is brew war and hate. Think of gays, lesbians, transgenders. The hatred of women in the religious text. The crusades. The massacre of innocents in the names of god.

I never intended to debate with you. Gods are lies. Gods are hate. Gods are sin. That is why I don't take this seriously.

Do you want to guess how many "holy beatings" I have had happen to me in in elementary-high school? I got jumped, bones broken in the name of your god. I don't like that.


You're associating the failings of individuals and institutions with faiths.

Individuals are sinners. Everyone falls short despite what they know to do or not to do. Their failures are not God's.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:
As such, you can't compare something like FSM or TGU to something someone actually believes in the full metaphysical existence of.


They don't understand the distinction.

It comes down to a question of the human brain. What separates us from the other primates is our ability to entertain impossible and even contradictory ideas about the world we live in. Tests have been conducted, which might be generalised to something like this.

You put three blue balls and two red balls on the table, and you say "how many balls are there?" Both an ape and a human can tell there are five. Ask how many blue balls, there are three. How many red, there are two. How many green, well, none.

But when you ask how many balls would be on the table if the blue balls were green, the human can answer all the questions with the supposition in mind. Five balls, none blue because we're pretending they're green, two red, three green because that's what we're pretending the blue ones are.

The ape can't answer ANY of the questions. Even when it doesn't matter which ones are green or blue. The notion that you might pretend something is true when it's obviously not confuses them. They answer effectively at random, then become agitated and eventually angry. Their brains are simply unable to process the concept. They know the condition changes the answers, but they don't understand how or why.

And some people have a less-developed variety of this sense than others. On both sides - not just the theists, and not just the atheists.

When you tell a believer something that doesn't make sense, the less-developed variety of person will say "well, I must believe the thing that doesn't make sense, because I am a believer and that is what I do." If you demonstrate to them that this doesn't make sense, they become agitated and eventually angry, just like the ape.

Meanwhile, when you tell an atheist something that DOES make sense, he'll say "well, I must reject that because I am an atheist and that is what I do." If you demonstrate to them that your beliefs totally do make sense, hey presto they become agitated and eventually angry.

It's not really about belief and disbelief, it's about smart and stupid. And we have plenty of stupid people on both sides.
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