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Post Reply Flying spaghetti monster and other invalid parallels
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Posted 10/22/16

cdarklock wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:
As such, you can't compare something like FSM or TGU to something someone actually believes in the full metaphysical existence of.


They don't understand the distinction.



It's not really about belief and disbelief, it's about smart and stupid. And we have plenty of stupid people on both sides.


I don't think we should unequivocally give up on people and humanity. I believe in training, I believe in improvement. Of course there are extreme examples of psychopathy and sociopathy, but I'd like to start by giving the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "normal people" anywhere near the middle of the bell-shaped curve.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


You're associating the failings of individuals and institutions with faiths.

Individuals are sinners. Everyone falls short despite what they know to do or not to do. Their failures are not God's.


God is Omnipotent. God knew that I would be born with autism. God knew that people would beat me and verbally abuse me for this. God knew that I would end up atheist. God knew that I would go to hell for this. God knew that my friends would commit suicide.

Yet god let all these sinners and victims come to earth. He knew all this and still went through with it. When he gets tired of this. He will just commit genocide and wipe them off the earth.

That isn't a kind god. That is a dictator.
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


You're associating the failings of individuals and institutions with faiths.

Individuals are sinners. Everyone falls short despite what they know to do or not to do. Their failures are not God's.


God is Omnipotent. God knew that I would be born with autism. God knew that people would beat me and verbally abuse me for this. God knew that I would end up atheist. God knew that I would go to hell for this. God knew that my friends would commit suicide.

Yet god let all these sinners and victims come to earth. He knew all this and still went through with it. When he gets tired of this. He will just commit genocide and wipe them off the earth.

That isn't a kind god. That is a dictator.


No, God lets people have free will. What's the point of puppeting the entire universe?

I'm not going to list what I've gone through because that's besides the point as well.

People have a choice of not preying on each other. Even when animals prey on each other, it is not a case of cruelty of God.

http://christianthinktank.com/predator.html
http://christianthinktank.com/meorburn.html

"What happens" is an infinite series of trolley problems. Let's say that there is a trolley running down a track, and I have a choice of either do nothing and let that trolley kill 10 people I don't know, or do something and have this trolley run down the other track to kill just one person I don't know... What should I do?

Now, let's say that those branches of tracks branches on to infinity. Who is to say what is the greater or lesser of which infinite set of things? Who is to know all of that and furthermore, judge who is pulling those infinite number of switches?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16
We should lack empathy when bad stuff happens. Religious people fail all the time so we should just accept that as one who creates the ultimate rules, its part of God's divine plan
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Posted 10/22/16

Deyre wrote:

We should lack empathy when bad stuff happens. Religious people fail all the time so we should just accept that as one who creates the ultimate rules, its part of God's divine plan :P


I don't know what you're saying in that sentence.
Posted 10/22/16
No matter what you say, the point is you can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist...this is what religious nutcases like to say.

That's the whole point of the fsm, the fact that anybody could make up any ridiculous thing and claim it to be real, god is no exception.

But of course this argument is lost on irrational people who continue to make excuses for their imaginary friend.
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Posted 10/22/16 , edited 10/22/16

NyxUlric wrote:

No matter what you say, the point is you can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist...this is what religious nutcases like to say.

That's the whole point of the fsm, the fact that anybody could make up any ridiculous thing and claim it to be real, god is no exception.

But of course this argument is lost on irrational people who continue to make excuses for their imaginary friend.


........and the point of my post is that you can't treat Church of FSM as a religion like these folks do because it's a parody:

http://www.venganza.org/2016/07/illinois-id-struggle/

The site is run by the person who came up with the idea of FSM. Have a nice day.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:

I don't think we should unequivocally give up on people and humanity. I believe in training, I believe in improvement.



I'm with you on all the above, but it doesn't matter. No matter how much YOU believe in training and improvement, that's not going to train or improve anyone else. THEY have to believe it. Anyone who doesn't might start believing at any time, but you don't get a say in that. It's not a democracy. You don't get to vote on what other people believe.

So yes, every atheist on the planet might become a believer at any time, or on the flip side of the coin any believer might become an atheist at any time. But you have no meaningful influence over that. Nobody does.

That's not giving up. It's just recognising the reality that you don't get to train and improve people who don't WANT to be trained and improved.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:


NyxUlric wrote:

No matter what you say, the point is you can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist...this is what religious nutcases like to say.

That's the whole point of the fsm, the fact that anybody could make up any ridiculous thing and claim it to be real, god is no exception.

But of course this argument is lost on irrational people who continue to make excuses for their imaginary friend.


........and the point of my post is that you can't treat Church of FSM as a religion like these folks do because it's a parody:

http://www.venganza.org/2016/07/illinois-id-struggle/

The site is run by the person who came up with the idea of FSM. Have a nice day.


You act like everyone thinks the FSM is a parody. There are some who think him to be real. Myself included. Just like you think your god is real, but Buddhists, Taoists and Hindu do.

Are you really able to say that everyone in the entire world who knows of the FSM's being thinks of him only as a parody?
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Posted 10/22/16

Dark_Alma wrote:

You act like everyone thinks the FSM is a parody. There are some who think him to be real. Myself included. Just like you think your god is real, but Buddhists, Taoists and Hindu do.

Are you really able to say that everyone in the entire world who knows of the FSM's being thinks of him only as a parody?


Hm.

Earlier in the thread you have already tacitly acknowledged FSM as a parody:


Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


I posted the link to Church of FSM more than once and mentioned the site's creator more than once.

It's an invalid parallel, because the non-FSM things you've mentioned are not parodies. Please re-read my original post.

edit: the other ones you've mentioned (up to and including FSM itself) do not involve genuine testimony as is found by Greenleaf.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html


Wait, Yahweh isn't a parody? Damn, I have been looking at religion wrong for a long time.

I always thought the bible was a parody of Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and other pagan religions/gods and people...

Also, which one is the real Christian god? There are over 1 thousand variations of him and Jesus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


Pick. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:

Hm.

Earlier in the thread you have already tacitly acknowledged FSM as a parody:


Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


I posted the link to Church of FSM more than once and mentioned the site's creator more than once.

It's an invalid parallel, because the non-FSM things you've mentioned are not parodies. Please re-read my original post.

edit: the other ones you've mentioned (up to and including FSM itself) do not involve genuine testimony as is found by Greenleaf.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html


Wait, Yahweh isn't a parody? Damn, I have been looking at religion wrong for a long time.

I always thought the bible was a parody of Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and other pagan religions/gods and people...

Also, which one is the real Christian god? There are over 1 thousand variations of him and Jesus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


Pick. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


I don't believe I ever said "The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody." I said Yahweh is a parody.

See, when I was depressed and on the verge of suicide, the Flying Spaghetti Monster came to me in a dream. He embraced me with his warm, oily noodles and told me to live on. That I have a future. I was filled with hope.

I decided then and there that he was the one true god. Not Yahweh that never even helped me. The FSM gave me love and showed it to me. I will forever follow him.

Please don't infer stuff that I didn't say from my previous posts ^^

I imagine you were talking about me saying "all gods are made by man." That doesn't make them any less real. Your god is real to you. Mine is real to me.

I was a metaphysical witness to my god coming to me and giving me love. I do believe you said that counts?
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Posted 10/22/16

nanikore2 wrote:

The problem with using an article of disbelief as an article of faith is just that.
Ok seriously? One sentence in and you've already missed the point. We don't use the FSM as an article of faith, we use it to compare evidence between the FSM and God.
In the act of assigning the condition of non-existence to an article such as FSM, it couldn't then be use again in a capacity which opposes this very condition.
Do you really think we believe in this obviously fake creature that we made up as an argument? We only SAY we believe in it as an EXAMPLE to compare to the belief in god.
Plain English version:

Let's say that I've came up with the Teleporting Giant Unicorn. I would say that it eats FSM for lunch because instead of flying, it teleports super fast and TGU would just gobble FSM up before FSM could fly anywhere.

Unfortunately, I can't convert anyone from the Church of the FSM to the Church of the TGU because

You are completely missing the point here! We aren't trying to get people to believe in the FSM. It's a comparison of evidence to god, not a comparison of faith.
One, I don't even believe in TGU- I just made it up as a parody of FSM and
Yeah, that's how we feel about the FSM. We don't believe in it, and we don't believe in god either, because both have no evidence to prove they exist.

Two, people in the supposed Church of FSM don't really "believe" in FSM for pretty much the same reason so it's not like a conversion of faith anyways (unless they've managed to extend intellectual dishonesty and ignorance so far as to claim to not know the parody status of FSM)
Ugh. No. Yet again, we use the FSM as a comparison of evidence. No one actually believes in the FSM because it is a ridiculous concept, and in our eyes, so is god.

As such, you can't compare something like FSM or TGU to something someone actually believes in the full metaphysical existence of.
Yes we can. You know why? Because it is a comparison of evidence. Would you rather we compare Zeus and the christian god? Two things people actually believe in that have the same amount of evidence? Well that doesn't work as well in an argument. The reason why we use the FSM is BECAUSE no one believes in it. We're not comparing completely different things like doorknobs and snowballs, we're comparing similar things, like alligators and crocodiles. Both god and the FSM have the same amount of evidence to prove their existence, none. So we use the FSM as an argument to show how irrational it is to believe in a magical sky daddy that literally created everything.


Responses in red.

You missed the entire purpose of the argument.
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Posted 10/23/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

Hm.

Earlier in the thread you have already tacitly acknowledged FSM as a parody:


Dark_Alma wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


I posted the link to Church of FSM more than once and mentioned the site's creator more than once.

It's an invalid parallel, because the non-FSM things you've mentioned are not parodies. Please re-read my original post.

edit: the other ones you've mentioned (up to and including FSM itself) do not involve genuine testimony as is found by Greenleaf.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html


Wait, Yahweh isn't a parody? Damn, I have been looking at religion wrong for a long time.

I always thought the bible was a parody of Horus, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysus and other pagan religions/gods and people...

Also, which one is the real Christian god? There are over 1 thousand variations of him and Jesus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


Pick. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


I don't believe I ever said "The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody." I said Yahweh is a parody.

See, when I was depressed and on the verge of suicide, the Flying Spaghetti Monster came to me in a dream. He embraced me with his warm, oily noodles and told me to live on. That I have a future. I was filled with hope.

I decided then and there that he was the one true god. Not Yahweh that never even helped me. The FSM gave me love and showed it to me. I will forever follow him.

Please don't infer stuff that I didn't say from my previous posts ^^

I imagine you were talking about me saying "all gods are made by man." That doesn't make them any less real. Your god is real to you. Mine is real to me.

I was a metaphysical witness to my god coming to me and giving me love. I do believe you said that counts?


...and did you know FSM was a parody beforehand, or not?
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Posted 10/23/16 , edited 10/23/16

GamingGodzilla wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

The problem with using an article of disbelief as an article of faith is just that.
Ok seriously? One sentence in and you've already missed the point. We don't use the FSM as an article of faith, we use it to compare evidence between the FSM and God.


Responses in red.

You missed the entire purpose of the argument.


One thing at a time.

Who do you mean, "we"?

This from the website of the Church of FSM. The website is run by the person who came up with the idea of FSM:

http://www.venganza.org/2016/07/illinois-id-struggle/


During a time when people are doing reprehensible things in the Name of Religion, I wonder why officials are hassling us, out of all religious groups.
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Posted 10/23/16 , edited 10/23/16

nanikore2 wrote:

...and did you know FSM was a parody beforehand, or not?


I was sadly mislead by the mass media. Saying that the true god was that of a parody. I saw the light. THE METAPHYSICAL LIGHT. He held me tenderly in his oily embrace. It was then that I knew the heathens. The pagans who worship all the fake idols. Yahweh, Akuma, Isis, Muhammad, Brahma... All of these worship false idols.

I know this because I saw him in my dream. I witnessed HIS GLORY!

Foolish media telling me he was fake. He is real! I KNOW THIS. I SAW HIM IN MY DREAM!

Edit: I get emotional when someone says my god doesn't exist, or their is better. I am sure you know that feeling as well! The audacity to call any god a parody...
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