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Post Reply What will happen after Presidential debate is over???
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Posted 10/24/16
you mean what happens after the election

who cares, Hillary's going to be president anyways
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Posted 10/24/16 , edited 10/24/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:



He has, they have, and the mod has.
I was day-banned for being "mean". Posts were pulled because they were "mean". Each thread now devolves into "mean" complaints not just about the looney himself--and wishing a certain Norwegian Blue would expire and meet his maker--but about his protector and keeper as well.

Has it occurred to Lorreen that I may not be the actual one in the minority??
One of the best ways to "keep peace" on the board is to stop open Mutiny from breaking out:
https://youtu.be/ZFM-OxDGrkg?t=1m11s


Deyre wrote:The Trumpinator


IllIllIIlIllIlIllIlIlIlI wrote:

Lorreen deleted my comment. That is a spanking miss Lorreen


Was it something about how new that joke must have seemed to a foreigner who didn't live through Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's entire campaign and California gubernatorial term thirteen years ago?

(Which actually has a lot of parallels to the reasons Trump initially found support back when everyone still thought he was sane, but not like that's going to mean anything to the nutty lil' Moderator's Pet playing with his snowglobe...)
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Posted 10/24/16 , edited 10/25/16
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Posted 10/24/16 , edited 10/24/16

tomietomie wrote:



(Uh, didn't we already give up on the "Death's door" shtick when it backfired that Democrats giggled giddily at the thought of President Kaine?...And then we ended up being so disappointed that whatever she had only looked temporary?)
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Posted 10/24/16
We all move on with our lives.
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Posted 10/24/16
Some anime that can provide insights into this events are ReLIFE, some arcs in the two seasons of Bakemonogatari, and Zetsuen No Tempest. In those anime, some characters attempts to commit some heroic acts but end up causing more tragedy. Reality is not like the individualistic worldview of Capitalism where a hero can simply defeat a demon lord to bring peace to all. A phrase in Bakemonogatari of the Nedeko Snake arc can explain some necessary action. From what I remember, the phrase goes like this: "If you want to dig a grave, then dig two graves".
For example, the Republican core ideologies get criticized heavily so it is no longer holding the Republican party together but this does not mean that the Republicans are less threatening; an extremist like Donald Trump takes over the Republican party and cause more disruption (but the mainstream Republicans will cause some mayhem anyway). When Obama get elected, the Republicans use their control over many major media to held Obama as scapegoat for the Republicans and more cause more mayhem. When aka yumi and Victor Chan ruin the Capitalist secret political campaign in a group within Google+ and Facebook, the Capitalists end up hacking into several accounts along with one or two manager accounts of the said group to attack, isolate, or ban aka yumi and Victor Chan (I have some photos of this in my account).
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Posted 10/24/16

sinoakayumi wrote:

Some anime that can provide insights into this events are ReLIFE, some arcs in the two seasons of Bakemonogatari, and Zetsuen No Tempest. In those anime, some characters attempts to commit some heroic acts but end up causing more tragedy. Reality is not like the individualistic worldview of Capitalism where a hero can simply defeat a demon lord to bring peace to all. A phrase in Bakemonogatari of the Nedeko Snake arc can explain some necessary action. From what I remember, the phrase goes like this: "If you want to dig a grave, then dig two graves".
For example, the Republican core ideologies get criticized heavily so it is no longer holding the Republican party together but this does not mean that the Republicans are less threatening; an extremist like Donald Trump takes over the Republican party and cause more disruption (but the mainstream Republicans will cause some mayhem anyway). When Obama get elected, the Republicans use their control over many major media to held Obama as scapegoat for the Republicans and more cause more mayhem. When aka yumi and Victor Chan ruin the Capitalist secret political campaign in a group within Google+ and Facebook, the Capitalists end up hacking into several accounts along with one or two manager accounts of the said group to attack, isolate, or ban aka yumi and Victor Chan (I have some photos of this in my account).


First, the phrase regards revenge.

Secondly, can you explain how Trump's views are extreme?
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Posted 10/24/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:
Secondly, can you explain how Trump's views are extreme?



BAIER: Mr. Trump, just yesterday, almost 100 foreign policy experts signed on to an open letter refusing to support you, saying your embracing expansive use of torture is inexcusable. General Michael Hayden, former CIA director, NSA director, and other experts have said that when you asked the U.S. military to carry out some of your campaign promises, specifically targeting terrorists’ families, and also the use of interrogation methods more extreme than waterboarding, the military will refuse because they’ve been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders. So what would you do, as commander-in-chief, if the U.S. military refused to carry out those orders?

TRUMP: They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse me. Believe me.


Ordering the US military to commit war crimes isn't really what I would call a moderate viewpoint, no.


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Posted 10/24/16 , edited 10/24/16

runec wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:
Secondly, can you explain how Trump's views are extreme?



BAIER: Mr. Trump, just yesterday, almost 100 foreign policy experts signed on to an open letter refusing to support you, saying your embracing expansive use of torture is inexcusable. General Michael Hayden, former CIA director, NSA director, and other experts have said that when you asked the U.S. military to carry out some of your campaign promises, specifically targeting terrorists’ families, and also the use of interrogation methods more extreme than waterboarding, the military will refuse because they’ve been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders. So what would you do, as commander-in-chief, if the U.S. military refused to carry out those orders?

TRUMP: They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse me. Believe me.


Ordering the US military to commit war crimes isn't really what I would call a moderate viewpoint, no.




So basically, he openly supporting what our CIA, NSA, and FBI have been doing forever, regardless of international law. He's supporting measures our enemies AND most allied nations have always done, secretly or otherwise.

You call it extreme, I call it.... business as usual, except without all the bullshit lies in between. I mean, quite frankly, I don't even care in many cases. Should we torture soldiers in a real war? NO. Should we be concerned about torturing terrorists to prevent even more bombings of innocent people? NO.

Do I support torture? Absolutely not. But, it isn't going away, and it never did in the first place. It's a reality we face. If you want to save a hundred lives, you may have to torture someone who's already responsible, directly or indirectly, for 100s of lives.

As far as my Christian beliefs are concerned, torture is wrong. We don't need to start making policy based on religious views, now do we?
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Posted 10/24/16 , edited 10/24/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:


So basically, he openly supporting what our CIA, NSA, and FBI have been doing forever, regardless of international law. He's supporting measures our enemies AND most allied nations have always done, secretly or otherwise.

You call it extreme, I call it.... business as usual, except without all the bullshit lies in between. I mean, quite frankly, I don't even care in many cases. Should we torture soldiers in a real war? NO. Should we be concerned about torturing terrorists to prevent even more bombings of innocent people? NO.

Do I support torture? Absolutely not. But, it isn't going away, and it never did in the first place. It's a reality we face. If you want to save a hundred lives, you may have to torture someone who's already responsible, directly or indirectly, for 100s of lives.

As far as my Christian beliefs are concerned, torture is wrong. We don't need to start making policy based on religious views, now do we?


Except torture doesn't work so it should go away. Not to mention going after the families of terrorists, who we have to assume are innocent until proven otherwise, like Trump wants to do is also considered extreme by many and is, again, something that will not work.
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Posted 10/24/16
Probably start getting ready for the next cold war with Russia and the eventual collapse of our economy. Don't understand why the neocons in this country want that so badly, but they sure seem hell bent on making it happen.
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Posted 10/24/16 , edited 10/24/16

EichiXIII wrote:
Except torture doesn't work so it should go away. Not to mention going after the families of terrorists, who we have to assume are innocent until proven otherwise, like Trump wants to do is also considered extreme by many and is, again, something that will not work.


Torture results in false positives among people with no intel. Notice I did not say innocent people.

The idea that torture does not result in answers where answers are known is false.

You can pretend it doesn't, but very few people hold up to torture for very long. You don't. I mean, whoever the hell told you that is wrong. It is the false positives that are the problem--when people say whatever they can to spare themselves the pain. But, the truth is that all the training in the world, even our own SERE training, is designed to teach people to survive, evade, and escape.... not just resist torture. Because if you rely on endless resistance to torture, you will be let down every time.

Also, on point, why would SERE training even exist if torture ever went away due to international law? It wouldn't exist, because there would be no reason to teach it.

I'm mean, generally speaking, if there are other, better methods, those should be utilized. In fact, torture should be a last resort, if used at all.

However, if you know someone knows something and you can't get it out any other way, I cannot give any argument outside of religious beliefs that it is morally wrong.

Polygraphs are useless. Not only do they result in just as many false positives, but they are somewhat limited to yes and no questions, and the situation places so much stress on the polygraph subject that the results are completely unreliable. Not only that, but anyone trained to do so can resist them entirely.

Sodium Pentothal (truth serum) basically just as unreliable with answers. And that's WHEN they answer, because it can be resisted.

I've heard they can be used together to produce accurate results, but I've seen no real evidence of this.

So in short, don't be so sure torture isn't good bang for the buck.

If you are weighing the pain and suffering of one terrorist against even a small amount of pain and death of innocents, the choice should be obvious. Christian teachings, yeah, you turn the other cheek. Setting religion aside, there is no moral argument for avoiding torture. It's cruel? Well, so is not preventing the pain and death of people who have done nothing.... the blood of those innocents is just as much on the hands of he who does not take action. So, you're literally saying allow countless people to die and suffer so you don't cause pain to a few evil men.

If you are STILL not seeing it, look at it this way: If I placed even ONE child in front of you, just one, and beside him one terrorist....and I told you to either shoot the child in the head or shoot the terrorist in the leg.... What would you do? Nothing? Then the child automatically dies.

That's basically the decision on a much larger scale.

In short, if you think you are taking the moral high-ground on this, by condemning Trump or considering him a bad person, you aren't. He simply sees things as they are. Hillary is going to approve torture the exact same way, because she's also not an idiot. She just will not tell the people that she supports it, because "it's bad."

And the concept that waterboarding is the worst that's been going on is nothing more than a fairy tale. No, waterboarding is just the only thing we were stupid enough to get caught at.
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Posted 10/24/16
syria no-fly-zone will spark a war with russia , north korea will invade south korea, russia will invade its neighboring countries, Nato and U.S and European allies will fight back. China will invade japan, succesfully invading the Philippines. Since they no longer want the U.S military present. Small countries will be eradicated. ISIS will invade some European countries. Nuclear war will commence. Millions will die. Africa will be a war zone. Canada and Mexico will need to help the U.S since they can be affected by a nuclear attack. South America will be invaded by china for they can advance through mexico into the U.S. All this is going to spark because the U.S(which by the way i serve for) wants to stick its nose into other countries business and not worry about their own problems first!!! Thats what gunna happened.
Posted 10/25/16
Let's get one thing straight


the USA has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to declare a no fly zone in another sovereign nation. NONE.
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Posted 10/25/16 , edited 10/25/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:
So basically, he openly supporting what our CIA, NSA, and FBI have been doing forever, regardless of international law. He's supporting measures our enemies AND most allied nations have always done, secretly or otherwise.


Okay, wow. "We probably do it anyway so its fine" is not a good defense of publicly advocating war crimes as a presidential nominee.



HolyDrumstick wrote:
As far as my Christian beliefs are concerned, torture is wrong. We don't need to start making policy based on religious views, now do we?


Your Christian beliefs seem pretty convenient and your argument is absurd. "I think its wrong for religious reasons so we shouldn't do anything about it"? Can you not see the absurdity of that statement and how broadly ( and hilariously ) it could be applied?

Nevermind that you need your Christian beliefs to tell you torture is wrong. >.>



HolyDrumstick wrote:
Torture results in false positives among people with no intel. Notice I did not say innocent people.


Dude, come on, really?
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