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Post Reply We the People... We're really separated by class.
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16
On the US being a Christian Nation:

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
~Founding Father Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

“No religious doctrine shall be established by law.”
~Founding Father Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”
~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791

“Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”
~Founding Father Roger Sherman, Congress, August 19, 1789

“In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”
~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

“And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
~Founding Father James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

I hope we can now put this, at least, finally to rest. Or shall I continue?

(Note Drumsticks [OP] reminded me that he agreed with the assertion of this list, so I'm leaving this here to clarify that so you don't go after him on it, the list I'll keep here, in case anyone else wants to put these somewhere to have on hand for a future debate)
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Posted 10/28/16

BlueOni wrote:

What I gathered from this video was that it was an appeal to black people that they ought to be more sympathetic to US conservatism and an attempt to vilify liberalism. The discussion is framed around this SNL sketch, which McInnes says supports his views:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk

Over the course of this video McInnes does the following:



I'm not particularly floored by this video, I'm sorry to say. It looks pretty much like stock standard Republican talking points to me, with the twist being that it's an attempt to convince black people that they're Republicans and don't even know it. Because trying to convince people that their concerns aren't real and that they don't actually disagree with you on matters they have clearly indicated they do isn't treating people like "pets", apparently.


I was going to say all of this literally word for word but she beat me to it.... I'm serious... I really was... I promise......

Haha nah I wasn't. I am far too apathetic to devote such time to dissecting the follies of fools and their opinions.

However, in honor of BlueOni's continued dilligence in formulating her own independent thoughts/opinions, and not simply taking the route of "This person's article/video/*insert platform for opinion sharing* is how I feels so here's linkage/copy pasta hooray!"... I offer upon thee, the people, the following...



That's right. I am offering one fuck, one single solitary fuck, to each member of this forum who so happens to read this post.

Cherish this fuck, cherish it with all you have. For even the most infallible of cosmic entities imaginable could not say with certainty if I will ever give one ever again.
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16

ClothStatue wrote:

@BlueOni, DAMN.


That's how I roll.


thekevin4 wrote:

I was going to say all of this literally word for word but she beat me to it.... I'm serious... I really was... I promise......

Haha nah I wasn't. I am far too apathetic to devote such time to dissecting the follies of fools and their opinions.

However, in honor of BlueOni's continued dilligence in formulating her own independent thoughts/opinions, and not simply taking the route of "This person's article/video/*insert platform for opinion sharing* is how I feels so here's linkage/copy pasta hooray!"... I offer upon thee, the people, the following...

That's right. I am offering one fuck, one single solitary fuck, to each member of this forum who so happens to read this post.

Cherish this fuck, cherish it with all you have. For even the most infallible of cosmic entities imaginable could not say with certainty if I will ever give one ever again.


The beauty of the voices in the angelic chorus that sang as I received mine is indescribable! Thank you!
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16
The man in your video, is extremely biased in his views, but you may be on the right track. Where you fall on the political spectrum has little to do with how much money you make, what state you live in, or your skin tone. What matters is how far you are from a coastal major city.
What your video fails to bring up is the real commonality between less wealthy whites and African Americans, is that both tend to be found in homogeneous populations. Regardless of race, growing up in an environment where you are not exposed to other cultures and ideas, leads to a natural mistrust of those different from you. This mistrust leads in turn to persecution and fear of those who do not resemble you. In essence racism. Not of the active historical kind, but in a more passive sense. This fear has been exploited by every republican candidate since Nixon. Why that didn't earn black votes was that they were what the candidates taught whites to fear.
The closer you live to a major population center, places which naturally have higher immigrant populations, and greater diversity, like new york, the more likely you are to support left leaning polices. In addition living in a city requires a much greater degree of reliance on the local government.

look at this map. It charts election results at the county level, but also charts population by transparency. the result is quite telling.
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1857r5yihj9c7jpg/original.jpg


On a more personal note, I really don't care for your argument that racism does not exist, and that we are separated purely by class. I am half black, I come from a plenty well off family, And live in a majority white neighborhood. Yet I have witnessed plenty of racism from cops, store owners and neighbors all the same.
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Posted 10/28/16


You are truly deserving. I only hope the other members shower you with thanks for allowing them to gain this glorious gift, as they would have been incapable of attaining it on their own.
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Posted 10/28/16

ClothStatue wrote:

On the US being a Christian Nation:

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
~Founding Father Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

“No religious doctrine shall be established by law.”
~Founding Father Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”
~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791

“Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”
~Founding Father Roger Sherman, Congress, August 19, 1789

“In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”
~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

“And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
~Founding Father James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

I hope we can now put this, at least, finally to rest. Or shall I continue?


Nope, that's perfect.
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16




Since you guys didn't actually read OP, I'm going to help you out:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Let me start by saying that the man in the video refers to black people as "blacks" and gay people as "gays."

Now, that sounds super offensive, but it actually isn't. His intention is not to demonize, insult, or separate, at all. He's not being a bigot, just not politically correct. SO, if you can over look his lack of PC word usage, please watch this video.

He basically discusses how we're all really them same. We're separated by class, not by race. He discusses a number of things I really think is worth hearing.

The only thing that I really disagree with is that our nation was founded on Christianity. I'm a Christian, but that's bullshit. Our country was founded on the free to CHOOSE if we are or are not Christian, or any other religious belief.


Other than that, it's pretty on point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9-BLD754_8

I mean, this is exactly why we need to come together as a people. We're being told to take sides by the media. But, that's for the benefit of the establishment, the government, the rich mother fuckers controlling all of us. They don't want us to be one people.... because when that happens, these rich, controlling fucks are screwed.

Watch it. Think about it. Love each other. Let's be one people. Let's be the people of the United States of America.

And, one last thing, folks from other nations. We're not nearly as stupid as the media makes you think we are. We're really not, and it seems as if our media is deliberately painting a picture that America is full of dumbasses. We're not. I've honestly never met people as stupid as some of the jackasses I've seen on reality TV.

Come on guys, let's be THE people.


NOTE: I meant freedom, but only wrote 'free.' I'd edit it and fix it, but I'm not going to because I want you guys to understand you were basically picking a fight with a point I agreed with in the OP, and you both failed to read. I want it to be clear that it was that way long before you posted.

Cheers.
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16

HolyDrumstick wrote:





Since you guys didn't actually read OP, I'm going to help you out:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Let me start by saying that the man in the video refers to black people as "blacks" and gay people as "gays."

Now, that sounds super offensive, but it actually isn't. His intention is not to demonize, insult, or separate, at all. He's not being a bigot, just not politically correct. SO, if you can over look his lack of PC word usage, please watch this video.

He basically discusses how we're all really them same. We're separated by class, not by race. He discusses a number of things I really think is worth hearing.

The only thing that I really disagree with is that our nation was founded on Christianity. I'm a Christian, but that's bullshit. Our country was founded on the free to CHOOSE if we are or are not Christian, or any other religious belief.


Other than that, it's pretty on point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9-BLD754_8

I mean, this is exactly why we need to come together as a people. We're being told to take sides by the media. But, that's for the benefit of the establishment, the government, the rich mother fuckers controlling all of us. They don't want us to be one people.... because when that happens, these rich, controlling fucks are screwed.

Watch it. Think about it. Love each other. Let's be one people. Let's be the people of the United States of America.

And, one last thing, folks from other nations. We're not nearly as stupid as the media makes you think we are. We're really not, and it seems as if our media is deliberately painting a picture that America is full of dumbasses. We're not. I've honestly never met people as stupid as some of the jackasses I've seen on reality TV.

Come on guys, let's be THE people.


NOTE: I meant freedom, but only wrote 'free.' I'd edit it and fix it, but I'm not going to because I want you guys to understand you were basically picking a fight with a point I agreed with in the OP, and you both failed to read. I want it to be clear that it was that way long before you posted.

Cheers.


I was already aware that you already agreed that the U.S. isn't a Christian nation. I was just responding to the post on the views of the main founding fathers and saying it didn't need to be discussed further.
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Posted 10/28/16

NOTE: I meant freedom, but only wrote 'free.' I'd edit it and fix it, but I'm not going to because I want you guys to understand you were basically picking a fight with a point I agreed with in the OP, and you both failed to read. I want it to be clear that it was that way long before you posted.

Cheers.


I sincerely apologize. Truth be told after watching your video I honestly forgot about the notice you put up, I'll be more careful to reread original comments in the future. Still, I hope my list will be useful to anyone who wishes to use it in the future for when someone tries to bring up that bs somewhere else ^.^
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Posted 10/29/16 , edited 10/29/16
Logically speaking, we're separated by a hell of a lot more than class. For example, I'm separated from Christians by my Atheism. We're separated by preference in anime, hair color, music taste--there's just so damn much we're separated by. Race included. And those things are all valid factors of discrimination depending on the subject at hand. The question is how to discriminate in the relevant context.

So what is the question we're addressing when we say, "race is less relevant than class"? There are two that I can see:

"How are political beliefs distributed?" or
"How should political beliefs be distributed?"

If he's answering the first, then I think he's wrong. While there is overlap between lower class on some issues, there are major differences in the trends within the demographics between race. This shouldn't be controversial.

However, I think he's probably answering the second question, and while his answer is correct--that is, I find it slightly more sensible to form your beliefs around your class than your race--I still think he's making a poor distinction. If we're asking how people should form their political beliefs, then fomenting class warfare is a bad way to do it. A much better way to distribute beliefs is by culture. Different cultures breed different societal tendencies, and the way you run such societies should, therefore, differ.

And this is where I'll have to staunchly disagree with OP.


HolyDrumstick wrote:
Love each other. Let's be one people. Let's be the people of the United States of America.


Let's not. Let's be individuals. I'll be theYchromosome, you be HolyDrumstick. Let's not be one people. Let's be a few hundred million people. There are differences between us, and that's a fine thing. It seems insensible to just treat an entire population as homogeneous, particularly when you're talking politics, because that's when you're making policies for entire populations of people. Treating them as one is factually false, since they aren't one, and practically inapt since it doesn't efficiently take advantage of the specialization that occurs when the differences in people are recognized. Fuck that.

As for "love each other," that's also a rather bad way to go. There are some personal attributes in people that I like, and some that I don't. My feelings for others scale with the attributes that they have, and that's how it ought to be. I ought not to feel love for a person when I hear they've shot up a school, for instance. A person's actions derive from who they are, and since there are actions that I should hate, there are people I should hate. Love ought to be conditional, for the simple fact that some conditions should preclude it. Love can be a great motivator, but hate can too. Both ought to be earned.

Edit: Also, as a side note, when you say, "They don't want us to be one people.... because when that happens, these rich, controlling fucks are screwed", you are, yourself, making a division between two people, namely "us/we" and "those rich fucks." You yourself seem to want to divide us into no less than two people. Unless, I guess, "those rich fucks" don't count as people. Not really a point against your argument, but I do find it good food for thought.
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Posted 10/29/16

HateKillingCamels wrote:

Culture comes before class I think.


yup and Americas culture in itself a shitshow.

Most people wanting change are called commies or socialists i noticed as if anything that isn't 100% democracy is bad.
Posted 10/29/16
Some will never like any chocolate in their vanilla. The biggest reason we are so separate is due to the hats we wear.
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Posted 10/29/16

xnebul4 wrote:

Some will never like any chocolate in their vanilla. The biggest reason we are so separate is due to the hats we wear.


Hate to break it to you, but there's plenty of hate on all sides of the fence. In our world today, no one race is more or less guilty than any other of having racism.
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