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Post Reply Japanese teachers violence towards students
19818 cr points
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30 / M / B.C, Canada
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Posted 10/28/16

Rujikin wrote:



We are having the same problem but on the opposite side of the spectrum. We are going too far towards never punishing or disciplining. There must be a balance.


I suppose there must but I have always preferred to err on the side of caution rather then not doing enough. People, even children are far tougher then we like to believe ourselves. Problem is when you encourage weakness and ill behaviour by trying to toy about with the situation in silk gloves you get weakness and ill behaviour.

I mean just look at us in the West ( I include my own countrymen in this) Our children are overfed and under worked brats who worship at the altar of McDonald and Televised garbage. Who couldn't run a single kilometre to save their lives and are more aware of which celebrity is fucking who then what 1 +1 equals.

Sometimes coming down on something with all the force of a earthquake is the only way to get things done. Ya gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette after all.
Ztla 
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16

Ranwolf wrote:

Spare me, a little discipline never hurt anyone . Besides last time I checked Japanese schools had some rather draconian laws when it came to behaviour and appearance at schools. And I am a firm believer if you break the rules you should be punished as harshly as possible.


Following the rules just because they are rules is the opposite of teaching critical thinking which is one of the most crucial things to learn in modern society. Instilling fear to the students and teaching them to not question the authorities will not be of benefit to them in the future. In my country (Finland) there's been a lot of public discussion of the teachers' rights in the classroom since currently they pretty much can't even touch the students. Still, I think physical punishment to the degree of forcibly shaving one's head or punching a sleeping person is not something most of the finns would ever want. The main thing is that there is discussion, it's happening in public and that it's mostly based on facts and not traditions. I personally have always been against useless "traditional" etiquette that serves no actual purpose. Somehow I still did very well in school to be honest. And somehow Finland has been quite well ranked in academic performance and that stuff - though there has been a slight decrease in the past few years because we were kinda late adapting to new technology.
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30 / M / B.C, Canada
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Posted 10/28/16

Ztla wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:

Spare me, a little discipline never hurt anyone . Besides last time I checked Japanese schools had some rather draconian laws when it came to behaviour and appearance at schools. And I am a firm believer if you break the rules you should be punished as harshly as possible.


Following the rules just because they are rules is the opposite of teaching critical thinking which is one of the most crucial things to learn in modern society. Instilling fear to the students and teaching them to not question the authorities will not be of benefit to them in the future. In my country (Finland) there's been a lot of public discussion of the teachers' rights in the classroom since currently they pretty much can't even touch the students. Still, I think physical punishment to the degree of forcibly shaving one's head or punching a sleeping person is not something most of the finns would ever want. The main thing is that there is discussion, it's happening in public and that it's mostly based on facts and not traditions. I personally have always been against useless "traditional" etiquette that serves no actual purpose but somehow I still did very well in school to be honest. And somehow Finland has been quite well ranked in academic performance and that stuff - though there has been a slight decrease in the past few years because we were kinda late adapting to new technology.


Following the rules and punishing a child for disobeying teaches discipline, respect , and knowing right from wrong. These are extremely useful life skills . Far more useful in fact then the weakness mollycoddling teaches them. Etiquette is also another skill that many could benefit from.

But I wouldn't except a Finn to know right from wrong, I mean Fascism has always been a popular sell in in Finland.
Ztla 
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16

Ranwolf wrote:


Following the rules and punishing a child for disobeying teaches discipline, respect , and knowing right from wrong. These are extremely useful life skills . Far more useful in fact then the weakness mollycoddling teaches them. Etiquette is also another skill that many could benefit from.

But I wouldn't except a Finn to know right from wrong, I mean Fascism has always been a popular sell in in Finland.


Disclipine and respect are far more useful when the teacher earns them the good way (showing he's worth them as all good teachers are) and not by punishing students way too harshly for not following the rules which have no moral basis such as the haircut thing.

Also, Right from wrong? You've got to be kidding me right? When the "morality" is based on tradition and not logical reasoning you can't really call it morality. You're teaching the kids to obey authorities without questioning which is the very antithesis of social development or morality. My right and wrong come from a secular moralphilosophic basis which I can effectively debate using logic, unlike extreme traditionalists such as the people who think that a certain kind of a haircut is unfit for a student.

And I seriously don't know where do you get the facism in Finland thing but I wouldn't say that. We are in many fields of society pretty much as left wing as you can get while still being part of the west. We just had a huge demostration against right wing extremism and neo-nazism. The country is somewhat split because of the immigration crisis though. (+ way to go ad hominem)
19818 cr points
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30 / M / B.C, Canada
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Posted 10/28/16 , edited 10/28/16

Ztla wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:


Following the rules and punishing a child for disobeying teaches discipline, respect , and knowing right from wrong. These are extremely useful life skills . Far more useful in fact then the weakness mollycoddling teaches them. Etiquette is also another skill that many could benefit from.

But I wouldn't except a Finn to know right from wrong, I mean Fascism has always been a popular sell in in Finland.


Disclipine and respect are far more useful when the teacher earns them the good way (showing he's worth them as all good teachers are) and not by punishing students way too harshly for not following the rules which have no moral basis such as the haircut thing.

Also, Right from wrong? You've got to be kidding me right? When the "morality" is based on tradition and not logical reasoning you can't really call it morality. You're teaching the kids to obey authorities without questioning which is the very antithesis of social development or morality. My right and wrong come from a secular moralphilosophic basis which I can effectively debate using logic, unlike extreme traditionalists such as the people who think that a certain kind of a haircut is unfit for a student.

And I seriously don't know where do you get the facism in Finland thing but I wouldn't say that. We are in many fields of society pretty much as left wing as you can get while still being part of the west. We just had a huge demostration against right wing extremism and neo-nazism. The country is somewhat split because of the immigration crisis though. (+ way to go ad hominem)


I gotta ask mate is that secular moralphilosophic of yours the same thing that caused so many of your countrymen to volunteer for the Waffen SS back during World War too. Or the thing that is causing such a deep racial divide among the citizens of your country?

You say brainwashing I say it's teaching a kid that there is more out there then their own selfish desires. Perhaps it may be a bit extreme but I'd rather follow a so called traditionalist's example then your country's morally bankrupt example.
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Posted 10/29/16 , edited 10/29/16
Yes, because teaching students that are already rebelling that respect is earned via force and violence will work. I see no way this could backfire. It's the perfect life lesson they can proceed in implementing themselves at their own convenience.

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Posted 10/29/16
Ah, the 1950's when the Catholic nuns used belts, verbal abuse, the shorter end of a 36" ruler or the back of their hands applying corporal punishment. Kids can be ornery and rebellious, full of backtalk. Actually, it worked as some of those little shits deserved every bit of the brief psychological pain they received.
Ztla 
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Posted 10/29/16 , edited 10/29/16

Ranwolf wrote:

I gotta ask mate is that secular moralphilosophic of yours the same thing that caused so many of your countrymen to volunteer for the Waffen SS back during World War too. Or the thing that is causing such a deep racial divide among the citizens of your country?

You say brainwashing I say it's teaching a kid that there is more out there then their own selfish desires. Perhaps it may be a bit extreme but I'd rather follow a so called traditionalist's example then your country's morally bankrupt example.


Back at it again with the ad hominem mate... What do you have against secular, logical morals? Are you extremely religious or something? Whatever I'll answer it anyway.

And NO: None of the things you mentioned have risen from secular moralism.

It is considered that the reason some finns volunteered for the SS was mostly because of war romanticism and lust for adventure and that only roughly 20% of the men had extreme right wing ideals. Quote(s) from wikipedia also says: "in December 1940 SS headquarters was in touch with the Finnish government as part of military negotiations with Finland. They had strongly suggested that the Finns should show their allegiance to Germany by sending volunteers to the German armed forces - The Finnish government agreed to the plan, both to demonstrate their allegiance to Germany and to gain a concrete assurance of their alliance. Suggestively, the definitive Finnish academic study on the battalion is called "Panttipataljoona", or "Pawn battalion"."

Still those who volunteered were a massive minority and the alliance with nazi germany in the first place was born from a mutual enemy sort of a situation.

The racial divide is a natural reaction caused by the immigration crisis and the political populism surrounding in on both sides imho. All big changes cause divides.

And how exactly is my country educational system morally bankrupt? The way it differs from so called traditionalist way is that even the teachers have to be able to justify their acts. Morals and WHERE THEY COME FROM are a big part of the Finnish educational system. That way the children can think for themselves whether the morals they have been taught are reasonable. And even if we are talking about valid morally wrong acts such as disrespecting your teachers - it doesn't justify violence, of that scale at least. Teachers have their own set of disclipinary measures even though I would say majority of Finland do agree that they should be expanded a bit.

At the end of the day manners are something you get from home and education from school.

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