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Post Reply What's your experience with female competition?
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Posted 10/30/16 , edited 10/30/16
were did the real princejudar go?

thinking its interesting human behavior^
lol... some might be, some not so much.

If you like to take it in the animalistic direction...
You could sure say many of the things are similar..

But if you just HAD to define it, in one word... you can't.
Humans have too much different mixed and effected (with the brain and env) to become quite different except some similarities here and there.
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berries-382 wrote:

Outside of sports... I think I had 3 instances:

1. This girl (friend) started lightly insulting my appearance whilst she asked others wasn't she better (than me) in that aspect.

2. (Unbeknownst to me at the time) One of my best friends (at the time) crushed on every other guy, and it so happened that a few of those she crushed on liked me. (I'm assuming she found out due to misunderstanding seeing as we both essentially have the same name). She then started to sabotage my relationship w/ by then bf, and started rumours about me. We worked things out, but unfortunately it was never the same.

3. This girl at work I'd never talked to (nor need to, seeing as we just don't need to interact) started openly mocking me w/ her friends, and basically ignoring me but looking/glaring at me all the time too. Given that I'd done nothing (i was new), and as far as I know have not just had people dislike me out of nowhere, was fairly confused, but thought I was being overly self-conscious. Then one day as I was going through a door, and her out the other way, she stands right in front of me and stares down at me. (There's another door right next to it btw.. i wasn't in her way). All I could think of was how highschool it was of her... or even primitive.. behaviour of a 'lower'/less evolved lifeform for sure. Then several times after that, she made it very clear she did dislike me.
And since there aren't many females in the industry already (and the company), she's kinda isolated me from all the females and several guys of her/our age range. But whatever


Yikes. That's more of what I was looking for. Sounds really annoying.You're probably pretty attractive given your experiences, so good on yah. Hopefully Karma bites them in the ass one day.


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Posted 10/30/16 , edited 10/30/16

GooseMcDucks wrote:

were did the real princejudar go?

thinking its interesting human behavior^
lol... some might be, some not so much.

If you like to take it in the animalistic direction...
You could sure say many of the things are similar..

But if you just HAD to define it, in one word... you can't.
Humans have too much different mixed and effected (with the brain and env) to become quite different except some similarities here and there.




I don't think I'm much different.
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Posted 10/30/16

PrinceJudar wrote:
I don't think I'm much different.
XP
jk, but then again you are from that area in that country so maybe I wouldn't have much to say on it.
and to the more dirty and a stronger female competition.
sex and such things (stripping to other activities)

Vahvi 
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Posted 10/30/16 , edited 10/30/16
Alright Louis CK, take it for here...
Louis CK - Boys vs Girls
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Posted 10/30/16
yeah, most of the time its this...
if i cant get it, no one can get it,[destroy the 'thing' she like,if she cant have it for herself].
saw about 5 time this happen. same shit everytime.
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Vahvi wrote:

Alright Louis CK, take it for here...
Louis CK - Boys vs Girls




Fuck man, that's perfect.
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Idk if it's so clean cut to call it evolutionary, it's hard to distinguish what's biological and what's just ingrained through centuries of gender roles. However, to answer your question, my experience with playing dirty with women is always indirect, not just non violent. The ones that do, pretty much always the cliquish, boy-crazy girls, might slut shame you, but only men have ever heckled and shouted at me over it, women whisper these things on the sides, sometimes loud enough they hope you hear them. If they feel particularly nasty they might come up to you and harass you verbally, but it's with an air of composure and superiority.

However, those are when girls are in a group, and honestly my experience with other women is drastically different, because we don't really 'compete'. Things like romantic attachment, say that I like someone and this other girl likes them too, we "compete" but unless one of us is a total bitch aka a minority, competition isn't really volatile or nasty, whomever 'loses' will keep it to herself generally, and sink into the back. Honestly I'm way way more comfortable with women than men because we just on average are nicer to each other. From my girl friends, we generally just have fun together on whatever common ground we find we have, and if one of us is frustrated or hurt or anything else we do our best to just be there for them. Maybe I'm just good at finding nice friends, and good at avoiding gossipy friends, but even strangers we're usually super nice with each other, if not on the sole perception that we're both girls. Once you sort out the gossipy from the not gossipy, you realize that the cliquish girls are just super immature and the rest of us get along pretty well, and we've all dealt with the cliques before at some point and we realize how childish they are. Once that happens, things become a lot more civil, the slut shaming stops and the stupid bickering goes away. Current feminism argues that that sort of slut shaming and social isolation is built out of our cultural conditioning which pits us women against each other, namely over the favor of men. It's hard to determine conditioning from evolution particularly in gender behavior where it is something rooted so deeply into our upbringing and is virtually impossible to avoid.

Whenever it can be, unless you hang out with really toxic people, between girls it's almost always a team effort. We prefer group fun to competitive bickering. Say another girl says something that you take offense to or don't agree with and feel strongly about, chances are in my experience we'll say nothing, and if we do it will be pretty low key like "hmm, interesting...". If someone says something cruel and we're all hanging out together, we'll probably just pretend we didn't hear what they said and try to keep the mood light. Of course, these are all highly variable to the woman or girl in question, women can be totally in your face and overly aggressive. I remember reading in a scientific journal about how women are both less verbally and physically aggressive, but when they are given as much freedom as possible women are just as, and even more verbally aggressive as men, but physical aggression stays the same. Still, most everything we do is tactful when it comes to aggression, if I really wanted to be cruel I could (figuratively) spit in your face and you might not even realize it.

It also should be said that conflict between two girls, if it's bad enough for them to stop talking, if another friend doesn't try to bridge the gap, it's rare that they sort it out. But as far as I know that's, again, a matter of maturity. Women who grew tf up will try to resolve the issue pretty civilly. We also generally are quick to be self introspective, many times overly so. We try to find what's wrong with us before what's wrong with someone else. This is what leads so many girls to stick around with people who don't appreciate us, it's so easy to fall into thinking you're doing something wrong, when the truth is those friends or lovers just don't value our friendship and there's nothing we can do. Men from what I've seen almost never are so introspective, and when they try to be they usually end up as their own emotional punching bag and it can sink them into depression.

Again, other women might have an entirely different experiences, but that's how it's been for me.
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Posted 10/30/16 , edited 10/30/16

ClothStatue wrote:

Idk if it's so clean cut to call it evolutionary, it's hard to distinguish what's biological and what's just ingrained through centuries of gender roles. However, to answer your question, my experience with playing dirty with women is always indirect, not just non violent. The ones that do, pretty much always the cliquish, boy-crazy girls, might slut shame you, but only men have ever heckled and shouted at me over it, women whisper these things on the sides, sometimes loud enough they hope you hear them. If they feel particularly nasty they might come up to you and harass you verbally, but it's with an air of composure and superiority.

However, those are when girls are in a group, and honestly my experience with other women is drastically different, because we don't really 'compete'. Things like romantic attachment, say that I like someone and this other girl likes them too, we "compete" but unless one of us is a total bitch aka a minority, competition isn't really volatile or nasty, whomever 'loses' will keep it to herself generally, and sink into the back. Honestly I'm way way more comfortable with women than men because we just on average are nicer to each other. From my girl friends, we generally just have fun together on whatever common ground we find we have, and if one of us is frustrated or hurt or anything else we do our best to just be there for them. Maybe I'm just good at finding nice friends, and good at avoiding gossipy friends, but even strangers we're usually super nice with each other, if not on the soul perception that we're both girls. Once you sort out the gossipy from the not gossipy, you realize that the cliquish girls are just super immature and the rest of us get along pretty well, and we've all dealt with the cliques before at some point and we realize how childish they are. Once that happens, things become a lot more civil, the slut shaming stops and the stupid bickering goes away. Current feminism argues that that sort of slut shaming and social isolation is built out of our cultural conditioning which pits us women against each other, namely over the favor of men. It's hard to determine conditioning from evolution particularly in gender behavior where it is something rooted so deeply into our upbringing and is virtually impossible to avoid.

Whenever it can be, unless you hang out with really toxic people, between girls it's almost always a team effort. We prefer group fun to competitive bickering. Say another girl says something that you take offense to or don't agree with and feel strongly about, chances are in my experience we'll say nothing, and if we do it will be pretty low key like "hmm, interesting...". If someone says something cruel and we're all hanging out together, we'll probably just pretend we didn't hear what they said and try to keep the mood light. Of course, these are all highly variable to the woman or girl in question, women can be totally in your face and overly aggressive. I remember reading in a scientific journal about how women are both less verbally and physically aggressive, but when they are given as much freedom as possible women are just as, and even more verbally aggressive as men, but physical aggression stays the same. Still, most everything we do is tactful when it comes to aggression, if I really wanted to be cruel I could (figuratively) spit in your face and you might not even realize it.

Again, other women might have an entirely different experiences, but that's how it's been for me.


Well it's certainly not a competition when it comes to nature and nurture--think of it more like a circular relationship. Our biology will inform and predispose ourselves towards certain types of environments or cultures, but our environments/cultures can inform and manipulate our biology. Like an Autist that seeks out sensory experiences (seeks a certain environment). Our 'nature' as one would call it, is not as fixed as it is made out to be nor as 'blank' as nurture advocates may imply. I would not trivialize the influence of nurture or nature--as they cannot be separated. Similar to your own experiences, you're going to find women that display those behaviors more (onset by environment but some are more predisposed to it than others) and in others those behaviors may appear far, far less. It is important not to trivialize either nature or nurture--as some individuals being more predisposed to certain types of negative psychological conditions, for instance, can prove most helpful in determining a more healthy environment (predisposition for depression, addiction etc etc.) As we strive to form more equitable environments--genetic predispositions become stronger indicators for behavior. Where there is a stronger difference in environment (abusive home versus not or even the Syrian refugees) the environment is going to be the stronger indicator obviously. Not a competition between the two is what I'm getting at. Evolutionary explanation simply provides why females are more predisposed to it as it stands currently (not that culture or environment are less significant in the behavioral outcome).

Also, yes, I also find women to be more indirect when attempting to ruin the reputation of another female. Perhaps part of that is not wanting to view oneself as 'the bad guy' or unwilling to risk one's reputation for being more altruistic. Could also be a bit of risk aversion at play.


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Well it's certainly not a competition when it comes to nature and nurture--think of it more like a circular relationship. Our biology will inform and predispose ourselves towards certain types of environments or cultures, but our environments/cultures can inform and manipulate our biology. Like an Autist that seeks out sensory experiences (seeks a certain environment). Our 'nature' as one would call it, is not as fixed as it is made out to be nor as 'blank' as nurture advocates may imply. I would not trivialize the influence of nurture or nature--as they cannot be separated. Similar to your own experiences, you're going to find women that display those behaviors more (onset by environment but some are more predisposed to it than others) and in others those behaviors may appear far, far less. It is important not to trivialize either nature or nurture--as some individuals being more predisposed to certain types of negative psychological conditions, for instance, can prove most helpful in determining a more healthy environment (predisposition for depression, addiction etc etc.) As we strive to form more equitable environments--genetic predispositions become stronger indicators for behavior. Where there is a stronger difference in environment (abusive home versus not or even the Syrian refugees) the environment is going to be the stronger indicator obviously. Not a competition between the two is what I'm getting at. Evolutionary explanation simply provides why females are more predisposed to it as it stands currently (not that culture or environment is less significant in the behavioral outcome).


Yeah, I can get behind that.

Maybe a little off-topic here but I wish I could find a way to share this book I have that you might be interested in, though that might not be legal idk. I'm reading it rn and it's called "Delusions of Gender", which mainly criticizes poorly conducted experiments on gender behavior in the scientific community warping our preconceptions, and it's thesis point is basically between men and women we are far more similar than we are different and so it's nonsensical for us to group each other by gender predominately. Once I'm done with it I'm going to read any counter arguments to the book I can find, I'm sure there are some to look into.


Also, yes, I also find women to be more indirect when attempting to ruin the reputation of another female. Perhaps part of that is not wanting to view oneself as 'the bad guy' or unwilling to risk one's reputation for being more altruistic. Could also be a bit of risk aversion at play.


Y'know, I really don't know myself ahahahaha. I don't think I'm the right girl to ask about it, but if it was me I just don't have the stomach to be mean. It could be again, self introspection, rather than something so pragmatic as image conservation. I think we tread more carefully because while we might have some heavy emotions we'll unload on the person in indirect ways, we don't want an all out conflict, since we might still have reservations about our judgement on the situation or person. If I have an issue with someone's attitude I'll usually discreetly as others that know them for their opinions. Not to spread gossip but the opposite, just me checking to see if it's just me, and if it is I just shut up cause it's probably not bothering anyone else. I thought it might be self esteem but based on some pretty massive studies women are more critical of their looks, but in terms of academics there's no difference between genders, but women and girls have in fact more self-esteem when it comes to morals and ethics. I can see that a bit in myself, trolls and other people who try to goad me really don't phase me, things like slut shaming goes in one ear and out the other and thinking about it I'm very secure in my views on those subjects. So idk maybe we just don't feel it matters enough to start something big over it.
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I think it is more cultural than biological; I grew up in a school where violence was heavily discouraged, getting into a fight would get heavy suspension time, so male bullies had to adapt and often became the same sorts of passive-aggressive, gossiping sorts one associates with Mean Girls. I've also found that if I'm out with some girl friends and my husband or a boyfriend tags along, and we start chatting nasty about somebody, the odd man out is always happy to hop in.

Not to mention, even in the culturally stereotypical scenarios, this type of bullying is still used by men who bully other women. Hitting, or even screaming at, a woman in a fight is still a social taboo, but spreading rumours about her sexuality, pretending to ask her on a date, and other forms of petty emotional abuse are entirely normal.
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whenever i hear/see someone say gender is a social construct i can't help but think that david reimer is rolling in his grave
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dragonlord1234 wrote:
whenever i hear/see someone say gender is a social construct
I think some mean the social not biologial nature of things/development.

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The closest is sibling rivalry with my two sisters, and knowing people who've dealt with it. Oh, and fiction.
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ClothStatue wrote:
Yeah, I can get behind that.

Maybe a little off-topic here but I wish I could find a way to share this book I have that you might be interested in, though that might not be legal idk. I'm reading it rn and it's called "Delusions of Gender", which mainly criticizes poorly conducted experiments on gender behavior in the scientific community warping our preconceptions, and it's thesis point is basically between men and women we are far more similar than we are different and so it's nonsensical for us to group each other by gender predominately. Once I'm done with it I'm going to read any counter arguments to the book I can find, I'm sure there are some to look into.


While similarity is the shadow of difference, so too is difference the shadow of similarity. You will find people that subscribe to the idea that biological sex is all important or that it is all unimportant. Both are incorrect mentalities. There are certainly poorly conducted experiments within the scientific community--especially psychological ones (although one has to be forgiving as they are still an early field of study). There is also certainly a crisis within papers that overestimate the significance of p values. Poor methodology is certainly nothing new--diligence and scrutiny is heavily important within the field of science. Theory, ideas, and conclusions are often preliminary. I find that the worst understanding of science comes from the translation--scientific shorthand to reporter. So much study is misrepresented because it was treated with callous understanding when it reached the masses.

You will find, for instance, many individuals that will read biological ultimate causation and explanation and consider it with the frame of it being proximate mechanisms (Tinbergen's Four Questions). The reaction to the misinterpretation is as expected: much offense taken. Another example would be the reporting of genetic study 'scientists have founds the gene for X'--well no not literally genetics don't work that way. It is actually shorthand for 'gene increases the probability of behavior X' rather than the 'gene always causes behavior X'.

In some aspects, grouping by gender is nonsensical--in others it weighs much more importantly. As we approach upon better grasping of genetics for example, sex, origin, and race become more important to our understanding of medicine, health and psychological well being. Another example where it may be significant is education--where males are now falling behind and finding themselves increasingly placed on medication to correct their behavior. Sometimes its dangerous to ignore differences (like a Mother that forces her daughter/son to appreciate gender neutral toys over the preferred) just as it is to place too much emphasis upon them. It is important to understand that difference is not always malevolent, but additionally that difference is not always significant (that focusing on such can also be entirely unreasonable as it is detrimental).


ClothStatue wrote:
Y'know, I really don't know myself ahahahaha. I don't think I'm the right girl to ask about it, but if it was me I just don't have the stomach to be mean. It could be again, self introspection, rather than something so pragmatic as image conservation. I think we tread more carefully because while we might have some heavy emotions we'll unload on the person in indirect ways, we don't want an all out conflict, since we might still have reservations about our judgement on the situation or person. If I have an issue with someone's attitude I'll usually discreetly as others that know them for their opinions. Not to spread gossip but the opposite, just me checking to see if it's just me, and if it is I just shut up cause it's probably not bothering anyone else. I thought it might be self esteem but based on some pretty massive studies women are more critical of their looks, but in terms of academics there's no difference between genders, but women and girls have in fact more self-esteem when it comes to morals and ethics. I can see that a bit in myself, trolls and other people who try to goad me really don't phase me, things like slut shaming goes in one ear and out the other and thinking about it I'm very secure in my views on those subjects. So idk maybe we just don't feel it matters enough to start something big over it.


That can make sense too though. Women, in comparison to men, are usually more careful about where they step (they are typically not as impulsive and often weigh possible risks of their actions/behavior [unless emotionally compromised of course]). I never had it easy innately understanding females, I was much the opposite and always got along more with men. I have experienced some female-female competition and none of it was pretty...very much the outcasting and public humiliation types. I cringe thinking about it. Not the kindest women met, certainly.


pansyforyourthoughts wrote:

I think it is more cultural than biological; I grew up in a school where violence was heavily discouraged, getting into a fight would get heavy suspension time, so male bullies had to adapt and often became the same sorts of passive-aggressive, gossiping sorts one associates with Mean Girls. I've also found that if I'm out with some girl friends and my husband or a boyfriend tags along, and we start chatting nasty about somebody, the odd man out is always happy to hop in.

Not to mention, even in the culturally stereotypical scenarios, this type of bullying is still used by men who bully other women. Hitting, or even screaming at, a woman in a fight is still a social taboo, but spreading rumours about her sexuality, pretending to ask her on a date, and other forms of petty emotional abuse are entirely normal.


I'm simply asking about your experiences with females. Sounds more like a defensive 'men are just as bad' reaction. It's unnecessary to demonize men to prevent criticism of women. There are obviously overlaps and poor behaviors that exist for both genders.

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