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Post Reply US Officials: No direct link between Trump and Russia
Posted 11/1/16

qwueri wrote:

I'm sure Russian news does an excellent job curating their own news to leave no doubt about Crimean secession under Russian occupancy and how great Russia is at peacekeeping in Syria. Trump seems to get his news from them, so certainly there's no bias!


Yeah except its not just russian news.

Even european news reports more than USA news.

Your lack of factual information just betrays that you dont have much for sources outside of USA curated garbage.

So of course the USA isnt going to report things like when Russia bombs ISIS and happens to also kill 30+ cia, mossad, egyptian & turkish clandestine forces operating illegally inside Syria. Doesnt fit the narrative now does it.
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Posted 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:

Yeah except its not just russian news.

Even european news reports more than USA news.

Your lack of factual information just betrays that you dont have much for sources outside of USA curated garbage.

So of course the USA isnt going to report things like when Russia bombs ISIS and happens to also kill 30+ cia, mossad, egyptian & turkish clandestine forces operating illegally inside Syria. Doesnt fit the narrative now does it.


Talking about 'USA curated garbage' while spouting Russian propaganda lines. Classic.
Posted 11/1/16
Its got to be pretty tough going through life having to deny so much of reality, qweri. I dont know how you cope with holding the surreal and the real in your hand simultaneously and calling them the same thing.


Go actually read some news besides CNN, ABC, NBC, WaPo, HuffPo, you might actually catch some information that's not globalist originated fiction.
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:

Its got to be pretty tough going through life having to deny so much of reality, qweri. I dont know how you cope with holding the surreal and the real in your hand simultaneously and calling them the same thing.


Go actually read some news besides CNN, ABC, NBC, WaPo, HuffPo, you might actually catch some information that's not globalist originated fiction.


My point is not about where you get the news from so much as it is how you're using and treating it. Being able to recognize the interest, bias, and spin from each source of media is basic critical thinking. I don't need to wrap every bit of news around some globalist conspiracy, the world's alot bigger and more complex than that. What I find so funny is how you parrot hard right news lines about how biased and unreliable the rest of the media is.

*Anyway, this is derailing yet another topic and going nowhere. I'll leave it be.
Posted 11/1/16
lol hard right


its ok, anyone that reads what you write can tell you drink the kool aid.
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Posted 11/1/16
Putin is hated on, not only because of his aggression with his neighbors, but because he crushed the globalists in his country. They trusted him. They groomed him, and set him up into power. Then, when he was in power, he immediately tore down the globalists' in power at the time. Russia was on its way to becoming a globalist country, the way the United States is on that road.

Now we see Trump getting ready to do the same. He is being hated on by his one time friends and allies. It's amazing to see, that our government was actually preparing to sell our national independence away and make us dependent on a centralized world government structure. I never knew this, until this election.

You wanna call it a conspiracy? Using fancy words, Obama talked about it all of the time. It explains why the United States has looked so weak during his presidency. I'm sorry I voted for him the second time (I voted McCain, the first time).
Posted 11/1/16
Still waiting to hear about any real "aggression against neighbors" from Russia in recent history, but all I'm getting is western propaganda that has little reality to actually back it.
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:

Still waiting to hear about any real "aggression against neighbors" from Russia in recent history, but all I'm getting is western propaganda that has little reality to actually back it.


They annexed Crimea without getting permission from Ukraine.
Posted 11/1/16
They did no such thing. And "with permission from Ukraine" doesnt even make any sense at all - hey, can we come take over a section of the country? great, thanks?

No, this all came from the illegal US & NATO coup of Ukraine's government in 2014. Recall the previous administration (that was legitimately elected, unlike what replaced it) was considering trade deals, one from Russia, another from the EU (with an implicit USA in there.) They decided to go with Russia's trade deal and not subscribe to EU austerity & currency debasement.

Within the year, Kiev was overtaken and a new government installed, not even elected by the people.

When the eastern territories spoke out against this, all of a sudden, the eastern territories were a problem?

Crimea voted by an overwhelming majority, but Dontesk and other regions did not want to join russia, they wanted to secede and have their own autonomous countries - Kiev told them no you cant secede, invaded and sent the Ukranian army into the areas, and then we started hearing about "Russian Aggression" and "tanks in Crimea" when the tanks were in Stevasopol, where the Russians have pretty much always had a base since they took it from the freakin Ottomans.




So....like I said, I'm not sure why the Western fantasy tales on this are even believable, because they totally go against all kinds of established fact.
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Posted 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:
So....like I said, I'm not sure why the Western fantasy tales on this are even believable, because they totally go against all kinds of established fact.


Because you spout nothing but Russian propaganda every time I see you debating this issue?

I am not saying that I believe everything that comes from western sources but neither do I believe everything that comes from eastern sources. To take a view that Russia is never in the wrong and has taken no aggressive actions in the last few years is incredibly naive.

Posted 11/1/16

MidoriNoTora wrote:

Because you spout nothing but Russian propaganda every time I see you debating this issue?

I am not saying that I believe everything that comes from western sources but neither do I believe everything that comes from eastern sources. To take a view that Russia is never in the wrong and has taken no aggressive actions in the last few years is incredibly naive.



more like, because I dont spout western propaganda on this issue.

I asked someone to put something up, but all I've had to do so far is correct what's been put up.

fam's got roots there so damned right I've done my homework on what's been going on over there, and what's happening on the ground is NOT how things are being framed in the MSM here.

the fact that the government was coup'd should not be in question here. numerous US figures were involved including john mccain.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/new-video-evidence-americas-coup-ukraine-means.html



cripes did people in the west even hear about the atrocities committed by the neo nazis in all of that? (tools of the usa, look at victoria nuland and see she's married to robert kagan, who's he in with again? yeahhhhh)
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Posted 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:

They did no such thing. And "with permission from Ukraine" doesnt even make any sense at all - hey, can we come take over a section of the country? great, thanks?

No, this all came from the illegal US & NATO coup of Ukraine's government in 2014. Recall the previous administration (that was legitimately elected, unlike what replaced it) was considering trade deals, one from Russia, another from the EU (with an implicit USA in there.) They decided to go with Russia's trade deal and not subscribe to EU austerity & currency debasement.

Within the year, Kiev was overtaken and a new government installed, not even elected by the people.

When the eastern territories spoke out against this, all of a sudden, the eastern territories were a problem?

Crimea voted by an overwhelming majority, but Dontesk and other regions did not want to join russia, they wanted to secede and have their own autonomous countries - Kiev told them no you cant secede, invaded and sent the Ukranian army into the areas, and then we started hearing about "Russian Aggression" and "tanks in Crimea" when the tanks were in Stevasopol, where the Russians have pretty much always had a base since they took it from the freakin Ottomans.




So....like I said, I'm not sure why the Western fantasy tales on this are even believable, because they totally go against all kinds of established fact.


I meant without their permission. Crimea voted to become its own state and Russia then helped themselves to their land.
Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

MysticGon wrote:
I meant without their permission. Crimea voted to become its own state and Russia then helped themselves to their land.


cmon man....Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia. That is a fact, please stop making me correct you on it.

It was the adjacent ~3, 4 provinces to the west and north of Crimea that wanted independence. Luhansk, Dontesk, and I believe Zaporozhe and maybe Kharkov regions.





the "deal brokering" went all the way to the presidency here

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

On Sunday, in his interview with CNN, Obama admitted that the United States “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.”

“Obama’s statement is reiterating something that the world public opinion already knew — the US was involved in the coup of [ex-Ukrainian President] Viktor Yanukovych from the start. History shows us that the US has overthrown numerous governments in Latin America, Asia and Africa and replaced them with leaders that ruled with a fascist ideology that proved useful for Washington’s geopolitical interests,” independent researcher and writer Timothy Alexander Guzman told Sputnik.

Yanukovych’s decision to not sign an association agreement with the European Union in late 2013 triggered a mass wave of protests across Ukraine, culminating in the February 2014 coup. Following the transition of power, Kiev forces launched military operation against those who refused to recognize the legitimacy of the new government.
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Posted 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
I meant without their permission. Crimea voted to become its own state and Russia then helped themselves to their land.


cmon man....Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia. That is a fact, please stop making me correct you on it.

It was the adjacent ~3, 4 provinces to the west and north of Crimea that wanted independence. Luhansk, Dontesk, and I believe Zaporozhe and maybe Kharkov regions.





the "deal brokering" went all the way to the presidency here

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

On Sunday, in his interview with CNN, Obama admitted that the United States “had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine.”

“Obama’s statement is reiterating something that the world public opinion already knew — the US was involved in the coup of [ex-Ukrainian President] Viktor Yanukovych from the start. History shows us that the US has overthrown numerous governments in Latin America, Asia and Africa and replaced them with leaders that ruled with a fascist ideology that proved useful for Washington’s geopolitical interests,” independent researcher and writer Timothy Alexander Guzman told Sputnik.

Yanukovych’s decision to not sign an association agreement with the European Union in late 2013 triggered a mass wave of protests across Ukraine, culminating in the February 2014 coup. Following the transition of power, Kiev forces launched military operation against those who refused to recognize the legitimacy of the new government.


You're right actually. Parliament voted to separate from Ukraine and the referendum was to join Russia. My mistake.
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Posted 11/1/16

RaisedInACult wrote:

Still waiting to hear about any real "aggression against neighbors" from Russia in recent history, but all I'm getting is western propaganda that has little reality to actually back it.





RaisedInACult wrote:


MidoriNoTora wrote:

Because you spout nothing but Russian propaganda every time I see you debating this issue?

I am not saying that I believe everything that comes from western sources but neither do I believe everything that comes from eastern sources. To take a view that Russia is never in the wrong and has taken no aggressive actions in the last few years is incredibly naive.



more like, because I dont spout western propaganda on this issue.

I asked someone to put something up, but all I've had to do so far is correct what's been put up.

fam's got roots there so damned right I've done my homework on what's been going on over there, and what's happening on the ground is NOT how things are being framed in the MSM here.


As I have said before, I have an open mind. My view of the situation is that some elements in Ukraine were pulling to the west and some were pulling to the east. Violent protests ensued over several months, eventually culminating in the president fleeing the country. Having lost its key ally, Russia intervened both overtly and covertly to ensure that the Ukraine did not slip into the western camp. This is all perfectly logical - western powers have intervened in their own neighbours' countries to ensure they didn't stray from their sphere of influence, so it makes sense that Russia would do the same.

However, as you imply in the first quote above, Russia has taken no aggressive actions with its neighbours in recent years. Therefore the situation I described cannot possibly have happened.

If you really believe that then you have a closed mind and there is no point showing you evidence of Russian aggression as you will just discount it. What is ironic is that Russia has acknowledged some of its aggressive actions, yet you don't believe they exist.

I will post a link now to some "western propaganda." Feel free to read it or not, but I think it makes some interesting points.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31020283
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