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Post Reply Do you think the two party system will fail after this election? (U.S.A)
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Posted 10/31/16
(DISCLAIMER: please do not make this a debate about presidential candidates, this is strictly about the two party system,

The united states of america has been in theory a multi party system, however after years of incremental lobbying and media representation of elections it has dwindled down into almost entirely two party system.

this election has, without question, caused more people to be upset and torn with both their party and the way politics have been done. The libertarian party and the green party are pushing to achieve 5% of the presidential nominee votes so that they can get better positioning on the ballot next election. senator sanders lost the democratic nomination, however most of the people that he spoke out in support of have been elected, many of them are from the green party and many are democratic-socialist.

what does this mean? this year more people are expected to vote third party than there has been in a long long time, this is because more and more people have become less capable of discerning who they believe to be the lesser of two evils. but what led us to a point where picking the lesser of two evils was needed? Well in order to address the problem you have to understand why the united states was created as a multiparty system.

back when the foundation of the united states happened there was a lot of concern for the distribution of power, they felt as though a multi party system was necessary in order to make sure the voice of all people would be heard, and as no one or two parties could accurately embody the will of the people a multiparty system was developed to provide a diverse set of presidential candidates and politicians.

however as most systems do tend to run into hiccups we now find ourselves in a situation where two parties contain astronomically more power than all the other parties combined, it has gotten to the point where people vote in favor of their own party without understanding the stances of their own party for the sake of not letting the other win. To make things a little more relative to ourselves you have to remember that a majority of the nation is registered as ether a dem or a rep. here is some information from wikipedia on the statistics.




but how many of these people vote? well according to pew research center about 28.5% of REGISTERED voters, not the population. so how many people actually vote in favor of the presidential choices we have to pick from come election day? well that may surprise you even more.

here are some quotes from pew research


Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, averaged only 8.4%.


Turnout for the Democratic primaries is, according to Pew's report, often higher than the Republican contests, but that was just barely not the case in 2016. On the left, 14.4 percent of eligible voters turned out (taken from bustle.com)


statistically speaking only 9% of the eligible adults in the entire nation voted in the primaries for ether trump or Clinton, yet they are the choices the nation will have to pick from according to ( http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/01/us/elections/nine-percent-of-america-selected-trump-and-clinton.html?_r=1 )

many call our for fathers patriots but that is because they founded this country, what they often forget is that they all held a strong belief in questioning authority, and not being afraid of changing opinions.



so the question I'm asking everyone here is the following


do you think that the two party system will fall apart after this election? do you think it will fall apart in the next 50 years? why or why not?
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Posted 10/31/16 , edited 11/1/16
No because while the party system has been a failure forever, it won't go away because the established elite would still be in control no matter how messy things get

Posted 10/31/16
Everything will probably fail. With the near complete corruption of America's political and judicial system, you can't expect without any doubt that anything positive will work. Rome fell from corruption, which became normalized, and so will the United States for the same reason. History repeats itself because no one truly learns. The common folk cannot live up to the level of history's greatest people. Those who would sacrifice themselves for the good of others are these greatest people. You think Trump or Hillary are anything like this? Not even close. America will be lucky to still even be a country by the end of this century. If some other would power doesn't rip this rathole to pieces, then it will consume itself, deservedly. All the brainwashed idiots who still believe that American is the greatest nations are the same kind of arrogant people who go and tell other nations how to conduct themselves while displaying their disgusting hypocrisy. Now it's come time for murika to pay the price and suck on a big, fat, humiliation penis. Other countries with actual civility and humility are sitting back and watching our cartoon of a country while laughing and eating popcorn. The entire presidential race has been an infantile dick contest, mainly because of Trump and his sophomoric antics. Even Hillary wasn't that childish and she has been a perfect example of why America is going to hell in a handbag.

In short, the two party system is doomed before it's even begun because of the irresponsible vermin that will pervert it beyond any possibility of redemption.
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Posted 10/31/16 , edited 11/1/16
If by two party system you mean two main parties that dominate the election, then hell no. At the moment our current election system does not allow for three (using three as an example) dominant parties in practice. Our election system is a winner take all system, which is basically where the party with the majority of votes gets all the seats for a certain position. Now, proportional representation, or the % of votes you receive equals the % of chairs you get for a given position, does allow for third parties to thrive because even if you only get 3% of votes you still get 3% of chairs, as opposed to 0% in a winner take all system. In proportional representation systems, it's easy for third parties to thrive, but in winner take all systems it's going to be the two main parties that dominate elections because people tend to polarize on issues. Also I accidentally deleted part of this paragraph so yeah, forgot exactly what I said originally. Anyways, I believe the populist party came closest to getting a third party president, I don't remember the exact number for the polls, but they lost steam as election day approached because people felt that if they voted for a third party, it wouldn't count because nobody wanted to vote for a third party, so they voted democrat or republican instead, which is why I don't see three main parties working in the current political climate. It's very difficult to generate momentum for a third party because the other two parties are steamrolling them.

As for democrat and republican, if either party loses most if not all its supporters I can see say the democratic party becoming the new green party and another party, say libertarian, filling in the power vaccum. The original federalist party, which founding fathers like George Washington and John Adams were a part of, fell through after the Alien and Sedition acts made the party highly unfavorable, and therefore nobody voted for people in the party, and this unpopularity caused the party to fade out of relevance.

Anyways I'm kind of sleepy so sorry if my points didn't make complete sense. Basically it all boils down to human nature and how the government is designed.
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Posted 10/31/16

lukedollo wrote:what does this mean? this year more people are expected to vote third party than there has been in a long long time,


And the last time that happened was when we had a third-party candidate who looked funny and folksy on TV.

And then Ralph Nader came along and stank it all up.

(But this year, don't confuse a tantrum with a political movement. That's what one party did, and that's why all the other tantrum-throwers are pretending that Jill Stein is sane.)
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

Ejanss wrote:
(But this year, don't confuse a tantrum with a political movement. That's what one party did, and that's why all the other tantrum-throwers are pretending that Jill Stein is sane.)


while i don't think jil is sane in the least, I personally will vote for her simply to put my vote into another party, if its between the green party and libertarians id rather stand behind the green party, again i don't like the green party as a whole, there is a lot i disagree with, however i personally would like to see us move away from a two party system so that's my way of expressing that. i am after all pursuing a degree in chemistry and a good chunk of her and the green parties beliefs go against a lot of my own, but again, its simply a petition thing for me in regards to the power structure. especially their anti vaccine stances, that blows my mind.

but i don't understand what you meant by confusing a political movement with a tantrum? i think the only way to strip corruption from politics is to change the established parties and work in people that have some compassion in them, ultimately make lobbying illegal would be my own dream come true but that's another topic.

I do believe media representation will stop a lot of people from moving away from the two party split but millennials have access to the internet now giving them the ability to get a larger pool of information, something that was not possible before. Honestly i feel like my generation will change things a lot more aggressively than before.
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Posted 11/1/16
No, human nature works best against a single proven opponent. Its easier to decide who your most like and support when there is only two choices.
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Posted 11/1/16
Let's say Trump has a back up plan... Let's say he loses. He might consider starting the "Make America Great Again Party." He could end up eviscerating the Republican Party, and even take a bunch of Democrats away from the Democratic Party. He could conceivably draw a bunch of new people that would run for Congress and reshape American Politics.

Let's say he wins. It is still possible that the Republican Party will not back him. If that happens, he could call on people to run for office as Republicans that will work with him. That will change the dynamics of the Republican Party. The people who voted Trump in will very likely vote out the Republicans that are getting in his way. So, pretty much all the Republicans in office, now, will get voted out and replaced with Republicans that are prepared to work with Trump.
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Posted 11/1/16
It depends on how well the third parties do in this election, but overall, I would say no. It will take more than a trainwreck election with unlikable candidates to change the system, but I do believe that a strong third party voter turnout will lead to small changes within the two major parties. For example, if Gary Johnson wins perhaps 10% of a state -- enough to give Clinton a significant victory over Trump in that state, where he may have been close or even won had most Johnson voters picked Trump -- we could very well see a shift towards Libertarian policies in the next election. Rand Paul, perhaps, or just easing up on certain social issues to appeal to young Republicans who favour the Libertarian party.
qwueri 
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Posted 11/1/16
Historically the two party system has survived several major shakeups. When one party splits or crumbles it reforms as a new party. Even as recently as the New Deal era you saw the system survive a major demographic shift of southern Democrats becoming Republicans and Democrats making major inroads in the northeast.

With the current situation, I'd be very surprised to see either party make significant shifts. The Tea Party was a reaction to the Republican's attempts to shift closer to the center on immigration and trade, and was subsequently reabsorbed by the RNC. Should the RNC ever make a hardline stance their Tea Party electorates resist, that may very well cause the party to rework itself. Similar and far less politically significant impact occurred with Sanders supporters, shifting Clinton's stance on TPP but not really shaking much of the party status quo.

In general I doubt the US would successfully sustain a multi-part system. Opposition to a second party is strongly ingrained in the political zeitgeist, and works heavily on regional identity as well. Both parties are pretty adaptable to large changes in their electorates. The biggest source of change, I think, will come from political shifts in places like Georgia and Texas. Should the Democrats attain some sort of super-majority, I think it would destabilize fairly quickly with the usual shifts in opposition to incumbent power.
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Posted 11/1/16
Republicans and democrats are 2 sides of the same coin. All that people need to remain contented sheep is to be given the illusion of participation in the democratic process.
Posted 11/1/16

qwueri wrote:

Historically the two party system has survived several major shakeups. When one party splits or crumbles it reforms as a new party. Even as recently as the New Deal era you saw the system survive a major demographic shift of southern Democrats becoming Republicans and Democrats making major inroads in the northeast.

With the current situation, I'd be very surprised to see either party make significant shifts. The Tea Party was a reaction to the Republican's attempts to shift closer to the center on immigration and trade, and was subsequently reabsorbed by the RNC. Should the RNC ever make a hardline stance their Tea Party electorates resist, that may very well cause the party to rework itself. Similar and far less politically significant impact occurred with Sanders supporters, shifting Clinton's stance on TPP but not really shaking much of the party status quo.

In general I doubt the US would successfully sustain a multi-part system. Opposition to a second party is strongly ingrained in the political zeitgeist, and works heavily on regional identity as well. Both parties are pretty adaptable to large changes in their electorates. The biggest source of change, I think, will come from political shifts in places like Georgia and Texas. Should the Democrats attain some sort of super-majority, I think it would destabilize fairly quickly with the usual shifts in opposition to incumbent power.


Historically, its been in the interests of those that want to keep america limited, to keep a 2 party system. State laws are also an issue in certain areas since they were crafted to support the 2 party system.

But it is annoying, the MSM framing of it. "Closer to the center" on immigration and trade?? "Free Trade" is nothing but gifts to global fascist entities and the unchecked border, immigration flood is just voter fraud by another means.

The US would easily sustain a multi party system - if those at the top that have used the 2 party system to maintain control didnt work so hard to prevent any competition from getting on a ballot.
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24 / M / florida
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Posted 11/1/16
you all make a lot of good points, but i would like to re introduce the concept of the new generation having access to more information and information sources than ever before, allowing for a much more diverse set of opinions. I do think media representation has a lot to do with us being a two party system, and i would also like to re introduce the idea of change within our lifetimes due to the change of mentality in generations, not necessarily from just this election but the future elections as well.

its good to see you all are pretty informed on the subject.
gsm642 
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16
we need a new form of government to reflect the 21st century we are on the verge of becoming a multi planet specie's and the current government system need an complete over hall. What we should do is work on having a world president like in star trek and we need to work on the unification of our specie's and work on advanced technology and resource development its the early 21st century and we have no advanced technology or weapons or defenses to defend our self's and planet with once we become a multi planet species its highly probable we are going to get someone's attention and we screwed if it goes badly.
Posted 11/1/16

gsm642 wrote:

we need a new form of government to reflect the 21st century we are on the verge of becoming a multi planet specie's and the current government system need an complete over hall. What we should do is work on having a world president like in star trek and we need to work on the unification of our specie's and work on advanced technology and resource development its the early 21st century and we have no advanced technology or weapons or defenses to defend our self's and planet with once we become a multi planet species its highly probable we are going to get someone's attention and we screwed if it goes badly.


looky here, we're going to need a star trek level of technology if we want that star trek level of social services, that star trek level of ubiquitous, inconsequentially free energy.

for today, we have the limits of actual real supply and demand to worry about.


the globalists want to establish a world government, with them at the top - so no, this is really NOT a good time to make a world government, we need to defeat the central banks and their owners first.
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