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24 / M / USA
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16
So I tend to read posts to get a grasp of human behavior. This is simply something I noticed.

It is not uncommon for people who are more indirect to make their romantic partner out to be a villain in an obscure manner in order to gain something for themselves (non-material or material). This is often done by people that wish to justify their actions to themselves (comfort for example) or to others. The approach usually establishes the following:

1. How tough it has been or currently is for them. The also provide their excuses/reasoning.
2. Describe their partner's negative behavior and demands (no reasoning provided for their partner).
3. Describe how their partner's behavior or demands make them feel negatively.
4. Establish innocence (how much they love, respect, and care for their partner).
5. Question the motivations, feelings, and thoughts of their partner with negative implications.
6. Ask for advice on how to get their partner to understand their demands/needs.

The replies and comments to this approach is as you would expect them to be--That their partner is clearly selfish, unfit, immature, horrible, uncaring etc.

It seems odd to me that people would ask their partner see to their demands/needs and yet makes it plain to see that they have no intention of even attempting to understand their partner's demands/needs. People that listen or read such approaches seem to be none the wiser in noticing this.

Have you noticed this? Are you more indirect yourself? Do you find yourself or others doing this without much notice?

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24 / M / florida
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Posted 11/1/16
I'm more indifferent, but I'm probably more direct than most because of my indifference, but than again I've been in my relationship for about 5 years, I'm at the point where if i had to be careful about what i say or do i wouldn't be in the relationship.
I think honesty is the best policy even if your partner doesn't want to hear what you have to say its better out in the open than stuck inside harboring ill intent.
i think that if you have deal with things in the way your talking your not just dooming your relationship to failure, but your also making both of your lives unpleasant.

but hey, thats my two cents.
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Posted 11/1/16
We call that a bad relationship. The problem with most dating is that people try to change themselves for someone else to get their attention. I mean, flirting and showing an interest in someone is perfectly fine, but people treat relationships like a game almost in that they think that if they hit all the right buttons and make their crush fall for who they make themselves out to be, and that you'll get a nice "you win" and its done and over. But healthy relationships are the opposite of that, they're built on honesty and communication over deception and competition.

If you don't show your partner who you are or learn to communicate with them in a way that makes both of you understand one another, how can they possibly meet your needs? You gotta keep it real. But dating culture today is very much based around deception, and I suppose for the most part it always was for a lot of people.

It can be frustrating but you can't force a good romance. So no I don't think it's a matter of being indirect as it is coming at love very naively and childishly.
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

ClothStatue wrote:

We call that a bad relationship. The problem with most dating is that people try to change themselves for someone else to get their attention. I mean, flirting and showing an interest in someone is perfectly fine, but people treat relationships like a game almost in that they think that if they hit all the right buttons and make their crush fall for who they make themselves out to be, and that you'll get a nice "you win" and its done and over. But healthy relationships are the opposite of that, they're built on honesty and communication over deception and competition.

If you don't show your partner who you are or learn to communicate with them in a way that makes both of you understand one another, how can they possibly meet your needs? You gotta keep it real. But dating culture today is very much based around deception, and I suppose for the most part it always was for a lot of people.

It can be frustrating but you can't force a good romance. So no I don't think it's a matter of being indirect as it is coming at love very naively and childishly.


I'd say there are a lot of bad relationships than good relationships in that case. You'll find yourself in a minority, rather than a majority on this matter (as in you'll notice many bad relationships in such case). Everyone plays games, but the difference is only in the manner of which they do. Obviously some types of games are going to be less comprehensible to an individual versus others.

Many people are indirect--and this type of game is very common to those that are. It's the classic phone a friend, relationship advice post, or the coworker's rant. When you have these games in mind, one tends to notice them happen more.

All relationships have their sour moments--the games people play during those moments differ. The method of which people play those games may maintain or break a relationship.


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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16
Lack of communication?...

and why I think its better when people have a good "flow" with each other.
this you see LESS in cities and MORE in the wilderness/farming area's or things that are more focused around living and living conditions + more.
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Posted 11/1/16

I'd say there are a lot of bad relationships than good relationships in that case. You'll find yourself in a minority, rather than a majority on this matter (as in you'll notice many bad relationships in such case). Everyone plays games, but the difference is only in the manner of which they do. Obviously some types of games are going to be less comprehensible to an individual versus others.

Many people are indirect--and this type of game is very common to those that are. It's the classic phone a friend, relationship advice post, or the coworker's rant. When you have these games in mind, one tends to notice them happen more.

All relationships have their sour moments--the games people play during those moments differ. The method of which people play those games may maintain or break a relationship.


I mostly agree. I think being indirect in itself can be a great thing for a relationship though. I think it's the reason why they reach out to others is far more important than if they do. If they are just doing it to vent, but don't have any intention of fixing the problem then it can only encourage that self righteousness. However, if you're calling your friend to try and see if they have advice to fix things between you and your partner, I think that's great, but if you're just doing it to make yourself feel more right it's just an ego trip and that's really immature.

You'll notice a lot more red flags with people it's true, but it's not like there's much alternative, better no relationship than a toxic one, y'know? You'll find that with healthy relationships like you said that all relationships have sour moments, but in a healthy relationship, both of your first instincts are to work together. Love is putting someone else's feelings before your own, that's the scary thing about it that I believe leads most people to be so controlling or defensive in relationships: such a thing is incredibly exploitable and only works out if it's a two way street and it's addicting enough to where if it is a one way street it's extremely hard to leave for most people.
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 11/1/16

GooseMcDucks wrote:

Lack of communication?...


Well, in the case I am considering the partner had made it known to the person their frustration and reasons for being so.

However, there is distinct difference in the way people listen. Sometimes, people just wait for their turn to express their own sentiments. That is different from putting in the effort to honestly consider the demands/needs of the other and not just your own. People get caught up in their own perspective sometimes--overwhelmed by their own emotional demands/needs. The difference is in how people handle that. Some people harbor it for much longer than others (especially when indirect)--the other partner's demands/needs laid forgotten until their own is addressed. Essentially that turns into these situations in where a person feels neglected whilst neglecting the other.

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24 / M / USA
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

ClothStatue wrote:
I mostly agree. I think being indirect in itself can be a great thing for a relationship though. I think it's the reason why they reach out to others is far more important than if they do. If they are just doing it to vent, but don't have any intention of fixing the problem then it can only encourage that self righteousness. However, if you're calling your friend to try and see if they have advice to fix things between you and your partner, I think that's great, but if you're just doing it to make yourself feel more right it's just an ego trip and that's really immature.

You'll notice a lot more red flags with people it's true, but it's not like there's much alternative, better no relationship than a toxic one, y'know? You'll find that with healthy relationships like you said that all relationships have sour moments, but in a healthy relationship, both of your first instincts are to work together. Love is putting someone else's feelings before your own, that's the scary thing about it that I believe leads most people to be so controlling or defensive in relationships: such a thing is incredibly exploitable and only works out if it's a two way street and it's addicting enough to where if it is a one way street it's extremely hard to leave for most people.


Relationship problems are addressed when they are brought forward. Direct types may be more confrontational, perhaps violent or even explosive, but they also tend to be much more quickly resolved if they are to be so. Indirect types, take their time instead. How much time and how much they are willing to be honest with--well that's certainly the catch. Indirectness is not inherently terrible much like directness. It is when people are indirect to the point it mystifies their partner that matters can get dicey. Additionally, if it is as you say, where a person is never intent on addressing it at all.

I comprehend indirectness much less, but I understand the motives people have for doing so. Still, it can be a frustrating experience for those that prefer to be given directions to the exit rather than kept in a fog until accidentally coming across it much later.

For many, it appears less of an ego trip that makes them prefer such a route--but the unwillingness to be viewed by self or others as the villain of the story. That desire I see expressed so often is what perplexes me in its prioritization.

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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

Relationship problems are addressed when they are brought forward. Direct types may be more confrontational, perhaps violent or even explosive, but they also tend to be much more quickly resolved if they are to be so. Indirect types, take their time instead. How much time and how much they are willing to be honest with--well that's certainly the catch. Indirectness is not inherently terrible much like directness. It is when people are indirect to the point it mystifies their partner that matters can get dicey. Additionally, if it is as you say, where a person is never intent on addressing it at all.

I comprehend indirectness much less, but I understand the motives people have for doing so. Still, it can be a frustrating experience for those that prefer to be given directions to the exit rather than kept in a fog until accidentally coming across it much later.

For many, it appears less of an ego trip that makes them prefer such a route--but the unwillingness to be viewed by self or others as the villain of the story. That desire I see expressed so often is what perplexes me in its prioritization.


I mean, it also depends on what kind of person you are. Now, I've never heard or seen anything good come of a violent encounter, but people who prefer heated arguments and butting heads generally are better suited to one another than them dating someone who prefers more subtly. Like most things it's about balance, sometimes you need to sit someone down and have a talk with them, and there's ways to do that without it becoming a shoutfest (using "I" instead of "you", sitting close next to them, looking into their eyes when you talk to them, holding hands, expressing interest in their feelings, ask them how they feel, etc.). However if you're always direct and asking questions for certain people it can feel like they have to explain every little thing word for word that they feel and that sort of obtuse descriptions can become frustrating and tiresome and can in fact make the person feel even less understood.

I think most people are timid in relationships because there are high stakes in a relationship. Your partner isn't just some friend you grab coffee with or go shopping with every so often, it's someone you've invested emotional and even physical intimacy and energy into. You even might have told them secrets you next to never share, even if you know they wouldn't abuse that even if things went south, that emotional intimacy still can hold power over someone. Sometimes people don't like to admit how much they rely on someone else, so they might complain about their partner and what they do but the fear of losing them can, wittingly or unwittingly, cause them to be unwilling to tackle the problem. But it's rarely just one reason, and of course everyone's situation has its specifics and dynamics.
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16
People posting about their relationship problems online are usually either looking for A.) Advice for how to resolve a problem or B.) Support for how they feel about a problem. The B group has generally made up their mind, but may want a little extra support and reassurance that they are in the right. When they've put that decision ahead of their relationship, there's a pretty good chance it'll hurt the relationship in some way. But then I've very seldom seen people looking for reassurance to take criticism of their decision over the internet very well. That sort of thing can only be worked out between the people in the relationship.

*B) being a forum emoji is kind of annoying.
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Posted 11/1/16
Hm, I am a mix of both.

I have had two relationships. Both ended with cheating. Is it wrong, yes. Did I possibly play a role in why they did it? Most likely.

So as they cheated on me, we both share the blame. I did learn one of them cheated on 2 men before that though, so maybe not so much with her... Never trust a girl with the name of a porn star... Haha.
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

I have had two relationships. Both ended with cheating. Is it wrong, yes. Did I possibly play a role in why they did it? Most likely.

So as they cheated on me, we both share the blame. I did learn one of them cheated on 2 men before that though, so maybe not so much with her... Never trust a girl with the name of a porn star... Haha.


Just gonna say I wouldn't blame yourself for that. It's not your responsibility to make sure your partner stays faithful. I understand that in the heat of the moment for some people it can be really tempting but if they're in a position to where they'll cheat they should have just cut things off before doing something like that.

So ya, I don't think there's an excuse for cheating. Everyone knows it's wrong to do, so if someone cheats on you that's something up with them, not with you. Don't look for problems with yourself when someone else falls short. ^.^
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16

ClothStatue wrote:

I mean, it also depends on what kind of person you are. Now, I've never heard or see anything good come of a violent encounter, but people who prefer heated arguments and butting heads generally are better suited to one another than them dating someone who prefers more subtly. Like most things it's about balance, sometimes you need to sit someone down and have a talk with them, and there's ways to do that without it becoming a shoutfest (using "I" instead of "you", sitting close next to them, looking into their eyes when you talk to them, holding hands, expressing interest in their feelings, ask them how they feel, etc.). However if you're always direct and asking questions for certain people it can feel like they have to explain every little thing word for word that they feel and that sort of obtuse descriptions can become frustrating and tiresome and can in fact make the person feel even less understood.

I think most people are timid in relationships in front of people because there are high stakes in a relationship. Your partner isn't just some friend you grab coffee with or go shopping with every so often, it's someone you've invested emotional and even physical intimacy and energy into. You even might have told them secrets you next to never share, even if you know they wouldn't abuse that even if things went south, that emotional intimacy still can hold power over someone. Sometimes people don't like to admit how much they rely on someone else, so they might complain about their partner and what they do but the fear of losing them can, wittingly or unwittingly, cause them to be unwilling to tackle the problem. But it's rarely just one reason, and of course everyone's situation has its specifics and dynamics.


Well violence never necessarily has to be upon persons. I'm the direct type myself so I'll kick doors, hit the counter/desk, and take to quite animal-like growling. The best day will be when VR comes up with a realistic means of smashing glass. I take after my Father in that manner--he would often slam drawers and accidentally smash glasses in the process. There's something about that noise that's satisfying. He was much the same. It's not like the intent is to hurt anyone rather than redirect energy that doesn't allow you to speak. Similarly to my Father I cooldown, apologize and am ready to talk it out after. If I'm down, I'll escape the situation, maybe drink for a bit. Regardless I do not and refuse to have arguments or problems that extend beyond 24 hours--something we never do in my own relationship. The person I'm with is both cool headed and bluntly, perhaps even rudely, honest. It works well.

Haha. Yah know--they say that females are keen on eye contact, but males actually prefer to sit and share a view. Eye contact makes me hella uncomfortable, but every person is just as you say, very different. You're also correct in that the direct honesty can result in semantics--it's always a debate when we settle down as to what is or isn't reasonable on our parts. Takes times, but I prefer it.

Hmm, I suppose that's one way to look at the timid behavior. I still have a hard time seeing it beyond selfish behavior though--in that the fear is what they may lose from that person rather than in doing for the person.

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26 / M / Socal
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Posted 11/1/16 , edited 11/1/16
Have you noticed this?
Yes

Are you more indirect yourself?
I'm a direct and honest guy, once I get comfortable enough I'll tell ya what porn I watch.

Do you find yourself or others doing this without much notice?
I do see others do and say negative things about their partners but that's not my problem. I like to be direct and cut the bullshit. I don't like talking behind anyone's back.
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Posted 11/1/16
I refuse to make judgements on relationships till I hear both sides of the story, so no I haven't really noticed it.
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