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Post Reply Serious Question about Insensitivity.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago
I keep seeing things being branded as insensitive. As if being insensitive is a universally bad quality. Or that if you are being insensitive, it is a result of your own lack of empathy and not a result of the stupidity of the opinion/stance you are being insensitive about.

Now, I want other opinions on this, because I personally may just be a callous person.

However, I don't see universal sensitivity as a positive thing. I think there are times when, perhaps, we need a little insensitivity. In addition, if someone IS a bit insensitive when maybe they shouldn't be, I don't think it's a big deal.... and definitely not something to get upset about.

We're not babysitting newborns, we're interacting as adults.

But, hey, maybe I'm wrong.
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Posted 22 days ago
You aren't wrong at all. Glad someone made a follow up thread about the rampant racism shown tonight
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago
Generally I find it best to not act like a dick whenever possible. "Respect" isn't something that should be criticized as "PC", its just fundamental to being a good person...
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago
I'd personally prefer not to get too involved in this topic, but if you're a minority or a woman there's a good chance someone is going to say something racist, sexist, or homophobic to you at least once in your lifetime.

There's no avoiding it, so you have to build up enough self-confidence so if it does happen to you, you can blow them off as idiots instead of crying about it for months or even years.
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Posted 22 days ago
Probably wise to quit this type of discussion for the day, it's only going to get deleted again, fair or not.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago

sundin13 wrote:

Generally I find it best to not act like a dick whenever possible. "Respect" isn't something that should be criticized as "PC", its just fundamental to being a good person...


True, you absolutely should be respectful when possible.

However, there's also a moment when we need to separate respecting a person and the fact that they have an opinion and calling stupidity out for what it is. I don't mean tossing out insults either, I mean making a decent argument.

I cannot fathom how, in any reasonable reality, presenting arguments can be considered bad simply because they're "insensitive." Insults sure.... but... legitimate arguments and opinions? Nah.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago

HolyDrumstick wrote:

I cannot fathom how, in any reasonable reality, presenting arguments can be considered bad simply because they're "insensitive." Insults sure.... but... legitimate arguments and opinions? Nah.


After 8 years of Obama, It's the world we live in now.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago

HolyDrumstick wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Generally I find it best to not act like a dick whenever possible. "Respect" isn't something that should be criticized as "PC", its just fundamental to being a good person...


True, you absolutely should be respectful when possible.

However, there's also a moment when we need to separate respecting a person and the fact that they have an opinion and calling stupidity out for what it is. I don't mean tossing out insults either, I mean making a decent argument.

I cannot fathom how, in any reasonable reality, presenting arguments can be considered bad simply because they're "insensitive." Insults sure.... but... legitimate arguments and opinions? Nah.


Arguments can be seen as bad or threatening depending on how you word them.

Language is an important thing since if you present arguments in a respectful manner, you're more likely to be listened to as opposed to making an argument in a condescending tone.

9 times out of 10 if you use "threatening" language they'll just dismiss you as biased and your argument will be lost on them.
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Posted 22 days ago
inb4 ban/forum lock


imo being too sensitive is a horrid thing for society
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago
Aren't you being a little too sensitive about people being upset with insensitivity?

But seriously, there are certain groups of people who have a history of both cultural and institutional oppression and hatred directed at them, and that lingers and must be aknowledged. Seriously think about the history of the group or person you are “being insensitive towards”. I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to. But IMO those particular situations where a minority has been oppressed by the government, religion, and economically need to have that history in mind and adjust the sensitivity.

Lastly, if someone you think is being too sensitive or accusing you of being insensitive and their situation doesn't have that dark history then I guess you're free to be a regular indiscriminate asshole. And you are free to ignore their bitching.
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Posted 22 days ago

Dogempire wrote:
Arguments can be seen as bad or threatening depending on how you word them.

Language is an important thing since if you present arguments in a respectful manner, you're more likely to be listened to as opposed to making an argument in a condescending tone.

9 times out of 10 if you use "threatening" language they'll just dismiss you as biased and your argument will be lost on them.


Can you elaborate?

I cannot see how anything other than an outright threat can be threatening.

Of course, you also have to keep in mind I'm one of a different opinion on many of these things. Like yelling or raising your voice. People are quick to "feel threatened" when people raise their voice. I have the opinion they need to get over it. 9 times out of 10, if someone raises their voice they are A.) Feeling like they aren't being heard and want to be listened to, aka feeling like a victim (I mean, it's in the very nature of raising your voice) or B.) They are expressing anger verbally, which is at least an outlet.

But, hey, I'm interested in this threatening language thing. Explain it, please.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago

Dogempire wrote:

I'd personally prefer not to get too involved in this topic, but if you're a minority or a woman there's a good chance someone is going to say something racist, sexist, or homophobic to you at least once in your lifetime.

There's no avoiding it, so you have to build up enough self-confidence so if it does happen to you, you can blow them off as idiots instead of crying about it for months or even years.


Here's how I look at things. It doesn't matter if a person is in a minority or majority, everyone on the planet will be put into situations where we have to deal with *-ist or *-phobic comments. This is all part of life and will never disappear from the world since we are all so diverse. Of course it is important to not always go out of ones way to tear people down but that should never be taken to the extreme of never disagreeing. What I find more disturbing is those who use one persons low-self confidence as a weapon to attack another. I know I have done this in the past and it's something I forever aim to move away from. Sometimes, like anyone, I can slip.

edit:


Dogempire wrote:

Language is an important thing since if you present arguments in a respectful manner, you're more likely to be listened to as opposed to making an argument in a condescending tone.



Meaning is more important than the sounds and symbols we use to convey. While people may use the same words, the meanings can be quite different.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago

Bryaugh wrote:
Lastly, if someone you think is being too sensitive or accusing you of being insensitive and their situation doesn't have that dark history then I guess you're free to be a regular indiscriminate asshole. And you are free to ignore their bitching.


So, we should change how we treat people based on the history of their demographic.

I'm confused.

Isn't that just a prettier form of bigotry?
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago
Empathy is a universal positive as is basic human respect.

I can't really comment on "Sensitivity" as I'm not 100% sure which of our raging dumpster fire GD threads was the catalyst for this topic. I don't want to unfairly render judgement on anything without actually seeing it an example.
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Posted 22 days ago , edited 22 days ago

HolyDrumstick wrote:


Dogempire wrote:
Arguments can be seen as bad or threatening depending on how you word them.

Language is an important thing since if you present arguments in a respectful manner, you're more likely to be listened to as opposed to making an argument in a condescending tone.

9 times out of 10 if you use "threatening" language they'll just dismiss you as biased and your argument will be lost on them.


Can you elaborate?

I cannot see how anything other than an outright threat can be threatening.

Of course, you also have to keep in mind I'm one of a different opinion on many of these things. Like yelling or raising your voice. People are quick to "feel threatened" when people raise their voice. I have the opinion they need to get over it. 9 times out of 10, if someone raises their voice they are A.) Feeling like they aren't being heard and want to be listened to, aka feeling like a victim (I mean, it's in the very nature of raising your voice) or B.) They are expressing anger verbally, which is at least an outlet.

But, hey, I'm interested in this threatening language thing. Explain it, please.


Okay, it's something that I have subconsciously ingrained, so it might be a little difficult to explain for me.

Let's say you're trying to make an argument that Donald Trump is a better candidate for president, when you try to persuade someone usually the best way to go about is it usually to persuade them on a subconscious level that your opinion is logical and well-researched.

Any language that can be seen as a personal attack raises a subconscious "bias" flag and your argument is lost on them because they see your opinion as biased, and therefore not credible. Personal attacks on the person for their opinion is one of the quickest way to raise this subconscious bias flag.

Obviously if you call someone a "libtard" it makes them think you're a ideologically biased conservative, and therefore are not worth listening to because your opinion is biased.

Let's take one of your posts on the safe spaces thread:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Class A? How far into your rectum did you have to reach to pull that out?

How am I silencing you? I'm giving my opinion. You don't like my opinion.

Sure, give ME a lecture on privilege.

I've literally lived in a house with no doors, running water, or electricity, burying my own shit. I've gone without meals. I joined the military to pay for my college.

So yes, please enlighten me on how my white skin has made me privileged, oh wise one.


You're talking in a condescending tone, implying they reached in their erm, orifice, to produce their argument not only sounds biased, but it's not a proper argument, just a personal attack. This basically kills your credibility and shuts out any possibility of persuading them. Next time leave out the personal attacks and stick to legitimate arguments, if you removed any personal attacks and left the living in a house portion in, you would have made a much more effective argument, it might not have persuaded them, but it would have created more cognitive dissonance with them.

Though it's also important to know that it's much harder to persuade someone if they know you're trying to persuade them, but that can't be helped.

But anyways, take what I say with a grain of salt, it's just my own thoughts on persuading people based on my own personal views and experiences.

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