Post Reply An Alternative Viewpoint: putting the "liberal" back in liberal arts
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago
This thread about the discussion of ways to once again promote debate and the listening to other points of view.
I find It frustrating that my generation has more or less stopped listening to others who they disagree with, rather than
logically debating their position.

I am putting the blame on radical SJW university professors who are enabling this line of thinking as mainstream or acceptable. One of the most important foundations of a liberal arts education is learning about alternative viewpoints and positions on a variety of topics, putting such things together and developing one's point of view.

Anytime I argue anything that does not fall into the neat little box/narrow viewpoint of university culture I automatically get labeled as promoting hate. Once one leaves the walls of University culture, they realize that so called safe spaces do not exist in work culture and that alternative (and even toxic) viewpoints are prevalent. By not being able to emotionally deal with such things will only make one's life more difficult in the long run.

Safe space culture is almost the opposite of what was achieved in the west during the period of Enlightenment. People started logically debating things, alternative religious viewpoints were finally accepted, woman where given more respect and alternative viewpoints were given a platform. Once we all stop talking to each other we stop debate and sever any chance of progress.

How can we once again promote the university and society as a whole as a place where people's opinions vary and a place where we can agree to disagree? I feel that current mentality of pretending otherwise, is a step back from gains humanity has made. From the forums of Ancient Greece, to the salons of French enlightenment, to debate clubs of modern times we seemed to be expanding upon this principal, what is making society take this leap backwards?

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Posted 19 days ago
well we can first totally get rid of the democrat party and those "professors" that teach that intolerant bs
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago

redokami wrote:

well we can first totally get rid of the democrat party and those "professors" that teach that intolerant bs


As I have mentioned on other threads, there are plenty of Democrats who are completely against this mentality.
See President Obama's speech on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIqTgGsl9YM.

Even if you dislike him, this is definitely one of his best speeches.
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Posted 19 days ago
The reason I don't debate people on CR anymore... They will never change their position.

If I get into a serious argument, I don't go in with the intention to never change. I go in with the mindset "if they say something that I didn't agree with, but upon further thinking... I agree." Then I will change my mind. Many people are like this.

On Crunchyroll... No one is going to go in with that mindset in this day and age. There are three people I added because they were fun to debate with and are willing to change their mind.

It isn't just the liberals who refuse to listen now, is it? Try telling a evangelical republican their god doesn't exist/you worship any of the thousands of known gods. They will never change their mind. Or you could talk about universal healthcare with a republican. Some may change their mind, some may not.

This goes both ways, I dare say.
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago

Dark_Alma wrote:

The reason I don't debate people on CR anymore... They will never change their position.

If I get into a serious argument, I don't go in with the intention to never change. I go in with the mindset "if they say something that I didn't agree with, but upon further thinking... I agree." Then I will change my mind. Many people are like this.

On Crunchyroll... No one is going to go in with that mindset in this day and age. There are three people I added because they were fun to debate with and are willing to change their mind.

It isn't just the liberals who refuse to listen now, is it? Try telling a evangelical republican their god doesn't exist/you worship any of the thousands of known gods. They will never change their mind. Or you could talk about universal healthcare with a republican. Some may change their mind, some may not.

This goes both ways, I dare say.


Good points, definitely works both ways.
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Posted 19 days ago
Are you sure that universities are the cause and not just the internet and social media? Where the impersonal and distant method of communication removes the incentive to be polite and to listen (as well as makes radical opinions seem louder and larger). I go to a university and I have never once seen a so called "SJW" professor have as much influence over their students as you say they do. Nor do I see any kind of mass birth of safe spaces. Most students I know roll their eyes when we end up with the professor who only wants their personal views parroted when we do assignments. Those professors are also very much in the minority as far as I've seen. I've never felt anything but comfortable to be expressing my opinion in the university I go to. I'm careful to apply tact and am aware of the debate environment I'm in and how I may be contributing to it.

I think that's kind of what people need to be doing. You need to actively work to create an environment where people can feel secure in expressing differing opinions. You can't just stumble into any conversation expecting the person to just automatically be open to what you'll say. You need to probe them so you know for sure that this person is actually going to debate with you. Most importantly, YOU need to listen to them as well. Ask THEM why they oppose your opinion, or why they're refusing to engage with you right out the gate. You can't just dismiss someone's position as illogical and then explain why your opinion is correct. Even if you think that their opinion is crazy, you are obligated by the standards of good faith debating to engage with their argument, dissect it, and then demonstrate an actual understanding of what they believe and WHY they believe that, then work off from there.

What happens when a person dismisses their opponent as just a crazy SJW, and says right off the bat that safe spaces are a ridiculous idea? All they've managed to accomplish is to do the exact same thing that the OP accuses the other side of doing. Be the bigger person and make these people engage with you and want to listen back. You might not be responsible for their behavior, but you're sure as hell responsible for your own so try and do something with that.

If they still refuse to listen and debate after that, then whatever. Nothing of value was lost.

As a side-note, don't expect any of this from the internet. The internet is an impersonal communication tool that makes it so we don't have to actually deal with the people we argue with. The absence of consequences for shitty behavior removes most incentive to actually debate politely. Even if there were consequences, there's no reason to continue talking to someone you disagree with when you remember you don't actually know this person IRL and therefore have zero actual investment in the debate. Hell, most of the time I have to remind myself that posters on this forum are actual people and not just avatar pics that have text next to them. If you want to fix this then actually go out into the real world and promote better behavior instead of complaining about the lack of it.

Also, this is just a personal nitpick, so I put it into spoilers just so I don't clog the thread with a wall of text that has little to do with the point I was trying to make.

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