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All Inclusive semi-meta discussion thread in an attempt to have safer discussion of Nerdom
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Posted 25 days ago


I think me and you have also had differences in point of view in other threads but this was actually one of the more interesting posts I have seen on the subject of safe spaces. Which I mostly (still) view as ridiculous, but it is interesting to bring personal therapy and private social media into the context, it isn't a side you generally see discussed but both are supposed to serve as a sort of "safe space". I think you are correct in that and it changes my outlook on it just a little. I think the difference is the level it is taken to, therapy for instance, is a friendly environment where personalized issues and attacks are discussed in great detail for the sake of mental health but in this case a therapist is rarely any type of echo and is generally very well trained in letting you lead your self reflection. They don't (or aren't supposed) confirm your idiosyncrasies but rather lead you into coming to terms with them and positive outlets to express your personal discoveries.
Social media on the other hand, gives you the ability of customization and thus creating that safe space but you couldn't say that was it's purpose. The default settings are public, and open to discussion/input from anyone anywhere, the option of a safe space is secondary.

To summarize because I have digressed again;
Therapy isn't about having opinions confirmed, it is about having key concepts pointed out to you to reflect on and find your own answers.
Social Media isn't about creating a safe space by default but you are given that option if that's what you want to do.

The "safe spaces" you see cropping up on college campuses (in my opinion) aren't about pointing out key concepts of society to reflect on, they could be and should be, but truly they function as echo chambers to have biases confirmed by people with similar biases. There is no real reflection or growth in any that I have seen.
Neither does life really give you that option like social media does. Even if you attempt to set up an exclusionary safe space irl, you can not live or restrain yourself to that little bubble and function in society. Unlike on social media, you must come out, and all the echoes and confirmation bias will again be thrown in to doubt by reality until you go back to cocooning yourself. There is no growth and very often the reality seems to be that if you don't stagnate. You grow or regress, and if you're not growing than you can guess what are you doing.
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Posted 25 days ago

Punk_Mela wrote:

On that topic, it has always amused me the lack of scientific evidence people are able to produce when asked to confirm things like "privilege", it's doubly silly when you now bring that in to the context of the United States which is some 3500 miles long, if you think the guy in Seattle lives in a culture even remotely similar to the guy living in the Oklahoma pan handle, much less the girl living in Norfolk, you are in for a shocker. You can't apply whatever "privileges" or "marginalizations" to all these completely different groups. It's absurd, for the most part I think safe spaces are a ridiculous notion, especially when applied to an online community. Block a user or turn it off, problem solved.


The fact is that the simplest definition of privilege entirely debunks all critical theory:

It's money.

Money gets the politician to compromise their ethics and views.
Money keeps OJ out of prison.
Money keeps the cops away while you do illicit drugs and activities.

The white homeless man has no privilege to exercise, but the stack says he is still king.

Ah, I didn't answer your questions:

Oh, my favorite anime is FLCL, I feel discouraged as I'm mentally exasperated to where I'm apathetic. The only thing keeping me moving is making another buck and enjoying the arts, I'd be terribly sad if I died before finishing certain books, hearing a new album, or finishing that new anime series. It's a pretty hollow existence, but it keeps my mostly apathetic self moving.


AirAKose wrote:

Safe spaces are necessary because when conversation is met with voluminous dissent by a vast majority and not allowed to progress in any new way publicly, the viewpoints therein are ever more ignored.


It also removes the ability to criticize ideas. In a meritocracy we separate the chaff from the wheat. Good ideas should thrive and bad ideas should die. Not every thought or idea is worth acting or will survive time. That's how slavery got abolished and civil rights started gaining ground. It allows real progress to happen. Talking in a closed group will not allow you to prepare strong arguments and persuade.

The rest felt kind of like excuses and pulling at strings in case this argument failed. I was going to address them but felt being succinct was better.
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Posted 25 days ago , edited 25 days ago


I guess that's true, I haven't read it in years and the last years were to me disappointing. But the earlier arcs like Gaara and Naruto's isolation had some pretty heavy concepts that I think a lot of people could relate to in some way. I also loved the art for it personally. Also a definite plus when the author doesn't bring their own poltiical beliefs in to ruin a story. I hate it when a character says something or does something unlike them because the author wanted to impose their own ideologies into the story.

I do think there is a very real leftist tilt in the media that doesn't fall short of the word "attack", but at the same time I am very secure in my belief systems. Leftist politics (especially in a college setting) tend to be a lot of slander, "racist", "bigot", etc. I know I am not any of these things so I won't take notice if someone uses these terms to try and dismiss me. I also have a very bleak outlook on people in general, even outside of partisan divides. I have people I acknowledge and even admire, their opinions are the ones I allow to hurt me personally, but until you have proven your worth (and as long as I am open minded about seeing your worth) I won't feel set against by any opinions you have. That's just how I feel.

I don't know that I want anyone shot personally, but having spent some fair time in both, Dallas and (especially) Austin are pretty liberal themselves. I think as long as people avoid their violence and do their best to get out of the way, they will fizzle out and hopefully one or two will eventually see the error of their ways.
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Posted 25 days ago

zinjashike wrote:


Punk_Mela wrote:

On that topic, it has always amused me the lack of scientific evidence people are able to produce when asked to confirm things like "privilege", it's doubly silly when you now bring that in to the context of the United States which is some 3500 miles long, if you think the guy in Seattle lives in a culture even remotely similar to the guy living in the Oklahoma pan handle, much less the girl living in Norfolk, you are in for a shocker. You can't apply whatever "privileges" or "marginalizations" to all these completely different groups. It's absurd, for the most part I think safe spaces are a ridiculous notion, especially when applied to an online community. Block a user or turn it off, problem solved.


The fact is that the simplest definition of privilege entirely debunks all critical theory:

It's money.

Money gets the politician to compromise their ethics and views.
Money keeps OJ out of prison.
Money keeps the cops away while you do illicit drugs and activities.

The white homeless man has no privilege to exercise, but the stack says he is still king.

Ah, I didn't answer your questions:

Oh, my favorite anime is FLCL, I feel discouraged as I'm mentally exasperated to where I'm apathetic. The only thing keeping me moving is making another buck and enjoying the arts, I'd be terribly sad if I died before finishing certain books, hearing a new album, or finishing that new anime series. It's a pretty hollow existence, but it keeps my mostly apathetic self moving.


AirAKose wrote:

Safe spaces are necessary because when conversation is met with voluminous dissent by a vast majority and not allowed to progress in any new way publicly, the viewpoints therein are ever more ignored.


It also removes the ability to criticize ideas. In a meritocracy we separate the chaff from the wheat. Good ideas should thrive and bad ideas should die. Not every thought or idea is worth acting or will survive time. That's how slavery got abolished and civil rights started gaining ground. It allows real progress to happen. Talking in a closed group will not allow you to prepare strong arguments and persuade.

The rest felt kind of like excuses and pulling at strings in case this argument failed. I was going to address them but felt being succinct was better.




I entirely agree with almost all of that. Monetary privilege is probably the only one I do see a concrete case based in facts for.

FLCL is way dope, though I do disagree that living for the arts is hollow (even if you do feel mostly apathetic). If you participate in them even as a consumer you are contributing in a lot of ways, and if you channel that into artistic expression yourself or reflect on it, you may help relieve the apathy. Who knows? I spend a large portion of time practicing art, and while it hasn't helped my opinion on people at all, it has helped me find some perspective on larger issues personally. Also, from personal experience as well, good chance Oklahoma itself is contributing to the hollow apathy lol. I hated living in Oklahoma.
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Posted 25 days ago

Punk_Mela wrote:
Also, from personal experience as well, good chance Oklahoma itself is contributing to the hollow apathy lol. I hated living in Oklahoma.


As much as I criticize it it's not that bad IME. It was really weird moving from Iowa to OK. Surprisingly IA picked up trends faster than OK, and the education in general seems to have been better based on many firsthand accounts and various metrics. On the other hand the job market is ripe for the picking which has landed me a pretty decent job. Living in Tulsa also means commerce is quite dense which I enjoy.

Now if I could get out of student loan debt and not be under it for 20 years to make use of it that'd be fantastic.
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Posted 25 days ago

Punk_Mela wrote:

I dislike safe spaces because they don't work to open understanding and grow intellectually, they are echo chambers which ironically silence opinions or concept that are different or do not align with their values. How can you possibly grow or overcome an obstacle if you actively shun anything related to it (assuming different opinions are indeed obstacles) and if you are not growing and bettering yourself you are in all likelihood involved in some form of coddling.


As implied in those above quotes, majority-ruled discussions are also echo chambers. When a majority opinion is introduced to a minority topic, it overruns the conversations and ceases further branching. It becomes its own echo-chamber. Your opinion is widely popular and has hundreds of thousands of discussion hours between Reddit, The New York Post, New York Times, Rolling Stone etc... Give other viewpoints opportunities to run a course.

Not everyone improves by the same means. There are not only a variety of learning methodologies, but types of cognitive approaches. People can be between avoidant or participant, competitive or collaborative, and dependent or independent. Not everyone improves or learns in the same way as you. For those avoidant-dependent types, the original post was an excellent learning opportunity.
https://elearningindustry.com/learning-style-diagnostics-grasha-riechmann-student-learning-styles-scale


The OP of the excerpt in my first post is clearly in violation of crunchyroll rules

Which rule? There was nothing offensive, and the topic is clearly written in such a way that one would presume meant not to exhibit behaviors that would remove people's comfort posting there. The "allies" keyword is the inclusive part of the post that kept it from breaking any offense/exclusion rules and hinted towards its intent. It's essentially a loaded question, "What do you love most about this show?" "Which of these two swords is your favorite?" etc... If you don't like the show, or either of those swords, you're not intended to answer. Posting as much is off-topic. Although it might not foster a full-bodied debate, that's not its purpose. The purpose was to foster a different conversation to help people vent and share common ideas.

When one posts in a topic that is clearly written as such, people can only assume it is to be antagonizing. The only other explanation is a misunderstanding of intent, which wouldn't be expected with full-bodied responses but I suppose it's possible. Semantics and pragmatics I suppose.
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Posted 25 days ago

AirAKose wrote:

There was nothing offensive, and the topic is clearly written in such a way that one would presume meant not to exhibit behaviors that would remove people's comfort posting there. The "allies" keyword is the inclusive part of the post that kept it from breaking any offense/exclusion rules and hinted towards its intent..


OP used "White Tears" unironically, could fall into tasteless commentary or joke regarding race. We could also argue that it was created as flamebait being disingenuous.

"Allies" is a weasel word and not a game I'm willing to play.
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Posted 25 days ago , edited 25 days ago
Fmab (well the whole fma series in general) I wish it didnt end lol.

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Posted 25 days ago

AirAKose wrote:


Punk_Mela wrote:

I dislike safe spaces because they don't work to open understanding and grow intellectually, they are echo chambers which ironically silence opinions or concept that are different or do not align with their values. How can you possibly grow or overcome an obstacle if you actively shun anything related to it (assuming different opinions are indeed obstacles) and if you are not growing and bettering yourself you are in all likelihood involved in some form of coddling.


As implied in those above quotes, majority-ruled discussions are also echo chambers. When a majority opinion is introduced to a minority topic, it overruns the conversations and ceases further branching. It becomes its own echo-chamber. Your opinion is widely popular and has hundreds of thousands of discussion hours between Reddit, The New York Post, New York Times, Rolling Stone etc... Give other viewpoints opportunities to run a course.

Not everyone improves by the same means. There are not only a variety of learning methodologies, but types of cognitive approaches. People can be between avoidant or participant, competitive or collaborative, and dependent or independent. Not everyone improves or learns in the same way as you. For those avoidant-dependent types, the original post was an excellent learning opportunity.
https://elearningindustry.com/learning-style-diagnostics-grasha-riechmann-student-learning-styles-scale


The OP of the excerpt in my first post is clearly in violation of crunchyroll rules

Which rule? There was nothing offensive, and the topic is clearly written in such a way that one would presume meant not to exhibit behaviors that would remove people's comfort posting there. The "allies" keyword is the inclusive part of the post that kept it from breaking any offense/exclusion rules and hinted towards its intent. It's essentially a loaded question, "What do you love most about this show?" "Which of these two swords is your favorite?" etc... If you don't like the show, or either of those swords, you're not intended to answer. Posting as much is off-topic. Although it might not foster a full-bodied debate, that's not its purpose. The purpose was to foster a different conversation to help people vent and share common ideas.

When one posts in a topic that is clearly written as such, people can only assume it is to be antagonizing. The only other explanation is a misunderstanding of intent, which wouldn't be expected with full-bodied responses but I suppose it's possible. Semantics and pragmatics I suppose.



Putting aside the fact that you apparently know all of my opinions without me having the opportunity to express them. There are no "majority ruled" conversations. There are open conversations and closed conversations, this thread is an open conversation, I disagree with your opinion and it hasn't been removed. According to yourself, your opinion is not the "majority" opinion yet here we are discussing it, and ironically, I would say you are the one who is being more aggressive. But you get to talk about it, the prior thread did not give others the benefit of voicing their opinions, thus this one began. It was a closed conversation and this one is not, simple as that.

Your second paragraph is woefully diversionary as well. I agree not everyone learns the same, my statement was that no new information is introduced and there are no new reflections on old information. You don't learn if there is nothing to learn. And there is nothing to learn in an echo chamber, even in your so called "majority-ruled" discussions, minorities are able to voice their opinion and will rightfully receive criticism if it is stupid, or build support until it is majority opinion. But in the original thread, there was no public backlash or criticism at all, only censorship to opposing opinions. And that is stupid.

If you can't see how partnering the "majority" with "non-allies" (unless you are being disingenuous I think we can both agree this means white people) can be divisive I do not think this conversation has any merit. The OP was rude in more than one comment, and asked that these "Non-allies" or the "majority" not participate in the conversation. Telling an entire demographic their options are agree or do not participate is absurd, ironic, and even amusing, that is until the moderators enforce it, then it is just censorship of paying customers and wholly detrimental to finding worthwile conversation. Also making unfounded accusations of how white males treat users on this site is something which also fringes on rule violations, I would say.

You also assume it to be antagonizing because you either did not have the full context or could not piece the context together. I don't really see what the problem is if you do find it antagonizing though, it isn't anything attacking you personally, it is simply how you interpret it. Shift threads, turn it off, or debate your perspective, but don't complain that it riled you up. Another explanation outside of "semantics and pragmatics" could be you are looking for confirmation bias in my responses, it is not an uncommon thing from people who typically hang out in safe spaces.
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Posted 25 days ago

Balzack wrote:

Lorreen should be booted off the mod team for what she did today, IMO.

It's one thing to have someone create a thread that's racist, and get away with it. Whatever. Happens all the time here these days.

But having a moderator delete any dissenting replies, as well as ban people because they weren't conforming to some kind of made up, exclusivity rules is absolutely ridiculous. Hell, I'm not even 100% sure if what was done was against the law or not.

I'm still waiting to hear back from support to see what they do about the matter. Hopefully that thread will finally get nuked, or at least they will stop Lorreen from actively shaping the discussion to be "safe." Either way, I cancelled my renewal and asked for a refund for the remaining time(which I know I will not get, but I wanted to ask for it anyway since I'm subbed until April). I won't support a company that allows this kind of shenanigans in their forums.


With no disrespect to Loreen (who I think is probably not such bad person), I would have to agree.

I initially made this thread out of irritation and a somewhat childish reaction to the blatant lopsided application of the rules, and while that irritation was short lived and gone. I am still irritated by the moderating trends today reflected. There is no question personal feelings have come in to play on which content was allowed and which was not. Crunchyroll runs the site and they can run the show however they wish, but I have expressed my opinions on deaf ears a few times previously and at this point, I see no reason in helping pay for their bias. Will be canceling my subscription as well.
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Posted 25 days ago

Putting aside the fact that you apparently know all of my opinions without me having the opportunity to express them. There are no "majority ruled" conversations. There are open conversations and closed conversations, this thread is an open conversation, I disagree with your opinion and it hasn't been removed. According to yourself, your opinion is not the "majority" opinion yet here we are discussing it, and ironically, I would say you are the one who is being more aggressive. But you get to talk about it, the prior thread did not give others the benefit of voicing their opinions, thus this one began. It was a closed conversation and this one is not, simple as that.

Nah, I'm pretty calm. Sorry if my tone comes across as aggressive. I'm also programming at the same time, so I'm not entirely in a conversationalist state at the moment. Mental gears and such.
Majority: having superior numbers in comparison to other parts of the whole.
I'm not sure what that challenge to definition was about? But ok. I'm the only one discussing from this viewpoint.
But yeah! See, now you're getting it. The other one was definitely a closed conversation. So why post there to begin with? Imo starting this topic from the start would have been better.


Your second paragraph is woefully diversionary as well. I agree not everyone learns the same, my statement was that no new information is introduced and there are no new reflections on old information. You don't learn if there is nothing to learn. And there is nothing to learn in an echo chamber, even in your so called "majority-ruled" discussions, minorities are able to voice their opinion and will rightfully receive criticism if it is stupid, or build support until it is majority opinion. But in the original thread, there was no public backlash or criticism at all, only censorship to opposing opinions. And that is stupid.

When the majority of your point relies on the argument that they will never learn if they never participate in debate, it's entirely relevant. Wouldn't you say your thread is a public backlash to the original?

Building an opinion to be the majority, especially one that involves sacrificing life-style choices (like choices of topic), is near impossible without moderation. People are not willing to change, they seek immediate self-gratification, and conflict- even in friendly debate- is seen as a personal attack. This is more a fault of education than personal decision, as- at least in the US- any form of conflict is generally met with punishment. Even simple debate. This is not me conceding your point, people will always have different ways of bettering themselves, but as far as having productive debates, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Even this one in which we're both steeled in opinion and not flexible at all. To be honest, I'm only participating to kill time.


If you can't see how partnering the "majority" with "non-allies" (unless you are being disingenuous I think we can both agree this means white people) can be divisive I do not think this conversation has any merit. The OP was rude in more than one comment, and asked that these "Non-allies" or the "majority" not participate in the conversation. Telling an entire demographic their options are agree or do not participate is absurd, ironic, and even amusing, that is until the moderators enforce it, then it is just censorship of paying customers and wholly detrimental to finding worthwile conversation. Also making unfounded accusations of how white males treat users on this site is something which also fringes on rule violations, I would say.

Although I agree their comments were rude, your posts were highly off-topic and provoking in-context. Thus, pragmatics. The post made it clear what the intent was.

The amount of money you spend on a service does not guarantee you sway over their rules and decision-making. Especially when there are other paying members, plus the forums are a free service.


Another explanation outside of "semantics and pragmatics" could be you are looking for confirmation bias in my responses, it is not an uncommon thing from people who typically hang out in safe spaces.

Isn't this a little ironic?


To open the path a bit, I will concede this: Often times when people try to claim safe-spaces, they do so in unsafe manners that contradict the purpose of the space- including via moderation. The original post could have been better executed and defined.
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Posted 25 days ago



I would say more condescending than aggressive, but I get the feeling we are both having similar thoughts about the other's intelligence so I don't particularly mind. And the "challenge" was simply to point out which opinion has a majority is irrelevant. These forums have never been closed discussions before, it isn't wrong to expect them to stay open based on that fact, and that is why I posted in those topics. I did so until it was apparent that the application of forum rules had changed and then I started my own thread to skirt that, does that answer your question?

I also disagree that it takes moderation to open discussion and build your point. You just have to know your oppositions opinions in order to frame yours in a manner they are susceptible to. "Safe Spaces" and those who generally use them are incapable of this because they actively set out, not to criticize dissenting opinion, but to silence it completely. I think it is fair to say at least for our demographic and the facilities our demographic has come to occupy in a majority (universities for instance) safe space aren't a minority opinion and still constructive conversation does not take place on the issues they bring to focus. But ultimately debate does take place in other facilities and with a much greater rate of success. I would say the US is probably much better than you are giving it credit for.

That is also a digression, the money was a secondary point. You asked what rule she broke and I told you. Whether it is free or an expensive premium the rules were misapplied to her posts and the replies made to it. That is the issue I had.

In the spirit of conceding a little, I didn't go out of my way to antagonize those in support of the safe space thread but I definitely didn't try to avoid which would have been a more constructive thing to do.
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Posted 24 days ago , edited 24 days ago
That fucking title just made my day xD
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Posted 24 days ago
What the flying fuck is this
Possibly the most elaborate CR troll I've seen
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Posted 24 days ago
Safe spaces are not needed. The idea that having a place where you can deny yourself from others' ideas, and simply choose to involve yourself in a perpetual circlejerk, in which disagreeing with you with an argument is blasphemy is a way to intellectual infantilization and should be discouraged. People who advocate for this should be called out for what they are: intellectual cowards, running away at any chance of dissenting conversation, afraid that their ideas will be challenged and that they will have to rethink their dogma.
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