Post Reply What are some Ideas of your "Fair Share"
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Posted 19 days ago
Just curious what everyone thinks about Taxation in a country teetering on default owing 19.3 trillion. I think everyone knows raising the tax burden will not necessarily do anything, but reducing spending is the only way to fix it. That being said what are your opinions on fair share, and what do you believe the tax brackets and tax code should look like?

Personally I would do a flat tax with no incentives for the rich, or tax loopholes that allow a vast majority of them to skate on taxes, even though I do personally believe they are already taxed too much. Tax code that incentives people to hire expensive lawyers because its cheaper is broken. Sorry but rich already pay more than their fair share, my dad pays 45%. He makes just under a million a year and pays the Federal Government 450k.. I personally find this to be an abuse of their power, and support flat tax between 10-20 percent, and no loopholes. Also budgets haven't been passed in a very long time, since 2008 we do not know what our government is spending money on, because both repubs and demo refuse to release the information. Also I would like to get a gauge on what opinions on estate tax are (death tax), personally I find the idea of taxing money a second time just because your family member is no longer breathing abhorrent, but I like arguments that give me chances to think outside my overton window. Also opinions on FIAT currency and the eventual decline in economic value it historically creates.
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago
I do believe in a progressive taxation system. The moral of the story is, if you raise tax rates on the working poor more people are not going to be able to afford basic necessities and thus going to become entirely dependent on government.

Also, for a basic standard of living, you'd only need a set amount of money and everything else is icing on the cake.

I think the best option would be to start closing some loopholes if you want to discuss lowering tax brackets rates without us going bankrupt.
Another option would be to seriously deal with the federal budget and finally get it under control.

I probably pay a good chunk of my income in taxes compared to many since I have a pretty successful career for someone my age, but I understand that without any taxation it would be highly unlikely our economy could create as much wealth as it does. In the end my net income still far exceeds what I'd be making in a place lacking modern roads, a decent education system, and a system of law enforcement/courts, etc.

Not sure how your father is paying 45% in federal income taxes, unless of course you are neglecting payroll and state taxes.
Top tax bracket is 39.6% and according to tax calculators that when you factor in that the top tax rate is only paid on income over 400k, then his federal tax liability should have only been 350k. Sounds like you are from a high income taxation state like California, but that being said keeping society at a 1st world status doesn't comes cheap.

Just look south of the border what happens when the rich basically pay near nothing in taxes. Sure they get to keep more money, but they are then forced to hire private security guards to protect their properties and more importantly their family members from kidnapping and thus paying large ransoms (and that is if they are lucky).

Sure high tax rates suck, and perhaps they can be lowered, but we need to get federal spending in check first.

Yeah, I'm against the estate tax since you have already paid taxes on that money, seems like double taxation to me too.

Fiat currency, that is another post all together. In a nutshell, it allows governments to run huge deficits and tax people indirectly by increasing the money supply faster than the rate of increased demand (i.e. inflation). Not saying that it necessarily makes it evil or unworkable, but paired with a political class that lacks deficit aversion it can destroy peoples savings or standards of living (see Venezuela for extreme example).

EDIT: not sure where you heard that we cannot look up what the government is spending, that is public information and can easily be found online
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago
I was including other taxes he has to pay that don't come from federal but state and local also.. sorry should have reduced that because i was focusing on federal, but I wholeheartedly agree on closing the loopholes first. I've been anxious about spending since Obama got in and both sides just said F it and haven't passed spending bills that outline where the money goes since. I wonder what they spend on black budget that no one gets told about... Also I believe Ron Paul got information from another senator showing 5 trillion missing and un accounted for from the federal reserve... Do you also agree with auditing the fed?
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25 / M / NYC Metro Area
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago

Kernman wrote:

I was including other taxes he has to pay that don't come from federal but state and local also.. sorry should have reduced that because i was focusing on federal, but I wholeheartedly agree on closing the loopholes first. I've been anxious about spending since Obama got in and both sides just said F it and haven't passed spending bills that outline where the money goes since. I wonder what they spend on black budget that no one gets told about... Also I believe Ron Paul got information from another senator showing 5 trillion missing and un accounted for from the federal reserve... Do you also agree with auditing the fed?


I see no harm in auditing the Fed.

Heck I was a Paul supporter in '12, not because I liked all of his economic ideas, but rather was tired of status quo politicians getting us into another war every few years.

Back on topic, you are referring to a procedure known as "continuing resolution." A continuing resolution (aka CR) just says lets keep funding the government and all of its departments at current levels as a temporary measure, although the word temporary is being used quite loosely in this case. We know exactly how much money goes to each department and sub-department, the problem is the government has its head very far up its butt and considers any budget cut as draconian and any budget increase as a way to stimulate the economy.

Obviously if you are going to deficit spend things like infrastructure make sense since in the long term they will increase tax revenue by growing the economy. Giving out free money and practicing corporatism using programs like cash for clunkers is just another way to rob Peter to pay Paul.


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Posted 19 days ago
Usually when people talk about taxing the 'rich' your father would be at the bottom of that totem poll and relatively unaffected. They usually mean those making hundreds of millions to billions of dollars who use tax havens abroad to avoid paying their fair share. I say if these people make huge fortunes and live in lavish and luxury while we have people scrounging on the streets there is something horribly wrong with our base morals. Not to mention, do not be so quick to think even the vast majority of them got their ethically, in most cases, they did not, or they were born up there. Money =/= effort, contrary to what they tell you.

Flat tax is simple but that doesn't mean it's good. 10-20% greatly raises taxes on the poorest of society and drops it dramatically on the richest. Also dropping our tax collection also means dropping many federally funded services or risk exploding the deficit even more, and I promise in our country, the cuts will be to humanistic services like social security and medicare and not to unnecessary subsidization for big business.
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago
Unfortunately the top 1% would be people like my dad... and me in the future as I will take over, it's really the .00001% with all the wealth.. yeah its where the cuts go are going to be services, which i would do Military and other -places... I personally think welfare needs reform, instead of taking money away from married mom's and giving it to single mothers who chose to be single, they should incentive's 2 parent households instead of 1, also when it comes to the flat tax i don't believe people at or below poverty level should pay anything at all... say 25k<. Seriously though I agree with a lot of black republicans, that welfare ultimately hurt African Americans the most and changing it to where women are held accountable for their bad behavior or mistakes would help them tremendously..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQps9gdb7DU
because men nowadays are sticking their penises in a live grenade... you never know when its going to decide your the enemy. and you have almost no rights that will defend you if she decides to make your life hell. Watched a documentary called Divorce Corp., it's soul crushing.. male suicide is reaching epidemic proportion, and no civilization survives men and women fighting.

Also when it comes to social security Id like to see that scrapped alltogether.. It's a bogus and innefective way to tax people to pay them later... its like letting a buly hold on to your lunch money.. and he goes out and buys a slingshot some bubble gum, then forces someone else to give him more money so he can give you 40 percent of what you gave him, rinse repeat.. its a ludicrous system, ponzi scheme selling the young out for the old.. all the entitlements the baby boomers recieve their children will pay for. It's literally inter generational theft because it will be bankrupt before It could ever get to me.
There are a few places in America where the federal Government deferred social security to the state, and in some cities in Texas it goes into your own savings. Which honestly taking them out of the process would be wholly more efficient, and less money that they can steal.. I'm an Anarcho Capitalist so any good the Gov. does to me is overshadowed by the monopoly of violence they represent.. although some things like defense and infrastructure in my opinion.. should be their only functions.
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28 / M / Virginia, USA
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Posted 19 days ago
Here is the Crunchyroll Forum answer:

"I want flat taxes across the because I believe it is fair that people making under 25,000 and over 25,000,000 pay the same tax rate."

Pretend I have a really obscure anime avatar and a sig lamenting for the good ol' american days and calling myself a deplorable
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Posted 19 days ago
uhh you didn't read what i said.. i said poor pay nothing.. and the government would get more money from flat tax... try again
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28 / M / Virginia, USA
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Posted 19 days ago

Kernman wrote:

uhh you didn't read what i said.. i said poor pay nothing.. and the government would get more money from flat tax... try again


you might find yourself of the position of actually researching your politics and finding a well rounded plan that didn't come from conservative media then. you definitely are the 1% of conservatives
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Posted 19 days ago
You think the richest of the rich really pay anything at all besides corporate tax???.. Getting rid of loopholes would increase tax revenue, and honestly that would be the most fair way... an even percentage across the board is the most fair way to do it.. as long as that base value doesn't harm the poor substantially... also you are the reason trump won SJW.. its people who point their finger yelling shame that got him elected
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago
i said with how i would do it people who dont make much money shouldnt have to pay.. your reading comprehension is terrible.
Plus I'm not conservative per say.. im socially more liberal and fiscally more conservative.. and I read a wide variety of resources when forming an opinion.. not just 1 or 2 shows on regular tv.
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Posted 19 days ago , edited 19 days ago

KennethKenstar wrote:

Here is the Crunchyroll Forum answer:

"I want flat taxes across the because I believe it is fair that people making under 25,000 and over 25,000,000 pay the same tax rate."

Pretend I have a really obscure anime avatar and a sig lamenting for the good ol' american days and calling myself a deplorable


Why do the working poor pay essentially nothing? Definitely has nothing to do with a dying middle class.
We exported a good chunk of our decent paying jobs and traded them in for dead end, part-time, low wage service work.
The problem we have nowadays is that a majority of new jobs getting created pay such crappy salaries that nobody can live on them.
If something doesn't change soon we are going to be stuck with more people dependent on government and thus higher tax rates.
As long as we keep killing unions and workers rights we are going to continue to have a declining tax base.

While I also disagree with the OP due to being a former blue collar Dem. However, I can understand how someone could come to that conclusion, especially if they haven't worked/slaved away in the service or manufacturing industries for a bit (worked in both) and seen how bad things have become first hand.

No need to hate on all Trump supporters, some of us simply fell out with the so called American "left" when they began drinking "3rd way" economic Kool-Aid from the Republicans under Bill Clinton and basically became nothing more than centrist stooges for Wall Street lobbyists.


Kernman wrote:

i said with how i would do it people who dont make much money shouldnt have to pay.. your reading comprehension is terrible.
Plus I'm not conservative per say.. im socially more liberal and fiscally more conservative.. and I read a wide variety of resources when forming an opinion.. not just 1 or 2 shows on regular tv.


Always the best mentality to have when approaching politics.
That being said I still say that flat tax is one of those things that sounds good/simple until you start thinking of its ramifications.
Those people you refer to who don't pay taxes still wouldn't under flat taxation. Let me explain, you would decrease their net income enough that they would qualify for welfare benefits and other social services that would easily increase your and my tax burdens greater than any so called additional revenue we would receive initially that would try to reduce it.

There are other things to consider. Why are wages essentially flat factoring in inflation for the bottom 70-80% of the population? Obviously tax code simplification is a good start, but until we address why the middle class American standard of living is going down the toilet, it doesn't seem to be that a flat tax would better our economy. Without a strong middle class nobody will purchase goods and services which would (and currently is) holding back economic growth, especially in an economy so dependent on services.
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28 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 19 days ago
Flat taxes have been proven economically unviable. Taxes have actually been lowest for the wealthy in years due to all of the loopholes available so I must laugh when people whine about them.

Ultimately those that benefit the most from our society should pay the most back to society. If you want to pay nothing in taxes, go to a society that does nothing for its citizens. Odds are you won't live long, but by all means.
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Posted 19 days ago
Based on what I'm reading.. I'm betting that none of you has read Bill HR.25 AKA. www.FairTax.org. yet..

HR.25 is the Current and ONLY flat taxation BILL that is being considered in congress at the moment... though it is in committee presently.

its very comprehensive. but like any major tax overhaul ..it comes with about 4-6 years worth of "transition issues".

I've studied the entire 1108 page document. and I do think it has a lot of potential though the tax rate is a bit high ... it starts high and comes down some over a several year period, and there are cash compensations for those under certain incomes brackets built in to offset the high rate too and it covers a great amount of our current taxation issues. and increases the Feds Revenues GREATLY as it is NOT based on your INCOME.. but on SALES, ( what YOU personally buy) so NO ONE is penalized for saving money or pulling money out of retirement funds. also, it does NOT tax foods, and meds. they are exempt.
It also does away with the current IRS operations and changes them into something more like what is done with sales taxes now for local and state tax collections.. it also gives businesses a tax credit as they essentially become the governments tax collectors.
ALL workers would get their full paychecks and pay NO FICA or SS taxes. those programs will change into something with similar functions but a different way of paying into it. so the ONLY taxes anyone would pay would be when they make a durable goods purchase and IF the plan were to be adopted..the flat tax rate would be set to be 22%,
Most retailers would factor this tax into the price of goods, so it would not look like you were paying an "extra" tax. like it does now. the tag would say 100 and that what you would pay with nothing added to it at Point of Sale.
there is provisions for "prebates" for those that need social assistance. for food or medical.

its quite the system and is worth ones time to check it over if they are seriously championing any kind of flat taxation program.



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