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Post Reply Japan Deputy Prime minister: no point relying on US newspapers, they are always wrong
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Posted 15 days ago

namealreadytaken wrote:


qwueri wrote:

So is there any context behind the statement, or is one flashy headline good enough?


remember how every American media told people that Hillary had a 90+ % chance of winning. at one point, CNN claimed it was 95% chance....then the election happened.


Well, it could be that this is the 5% chance, but the polls that accompanied said predictions among "likely voters" are something to be taken with great scrutiny.
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Posted 15 days ago

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Well, it could be that this is the 5% chance, but the polls that accompanied said predictions among "likely voters" are something to be taken with great scrutiny.


The media was definitely guilty of playing up what's at best a guess for how things look, and the crumbling of the blue wall really showed the weakness in over-reliance on data driven politics.

I'm not seeing how that somehow justifies the much touted internet polls showing Trump at ~70% being 'more accurate', or random schmuck blogs and facebook feeds being 'more reliable'.

Yes, any source is going to have a certain amount of editorial bias. Including facebook feeds and blogs. The big difference lies in that news media actually have journalistic standards they have to stand by. If they jump on a story too early and it turns out to be bullshit, they look bad and have egg on their face. A random blogger gets their story spread around and there's no professional duty for them to retract that story, even if they could after getting reblogged/tweeted/etc.

Treating blogs, tweets, and facebook with less scrutiny than major media sources is just fucking bizarre.
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Posted 15 days ago
Well he isn't wrong. In the last few years all the polls, experts, pundits and journalists have got it wrong again and again. I'm beginning to realise that nobody really knows anything.
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

qwueri wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

remember how every American media told people that Hillary had a 90+ % chance of winning. at one point, CNN claimed it was 95% chance....then the election happened.


Yes, the media bought too heavily into polls. Is that what he's referring to, or is it just the default excuse for knee-jerking every story that pops up on facebook?


They had polls that were skewed 37% D 28%R 36% and were basing everything off of those numbers. They all knew it, they didn't care. It was about CREATING a winner not reporting on the current leader. Even after Hillary had a 2% lead or was losing.


kromph wrote:

Well he isn't wrong. In the last few years all the polls, experts, pundits and journalists have got it wrong again and again. I'm beginning to realise that nobody really knows anything.


They also said Brexit didn't have a chance in hell. Well it happened.
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

qwueri wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

remember how every American media told people that Hillary had a 90+ % chance of winning. at one point, CNN claimed it was 95% chance....then the election happened.


Yes, the media bought too heavily into polls. Is that what he's referring to, or is it just the default excuse for knee-jerking every story that pops up on facebook?


It was more than just about the polls. It was about doing everything that they could to cast Trump in a negative light. His speeches included his "first 100 day plan." The media only focused on "I'm building that wall, and Mexico is gonna pay for it!" The only time his "first 100 day plan" was ever mentioned, was AFTER he won the election.

Meanwhile, Hillary's policies were the focus, as well as her "long years of experience." None of the media focused too much into the Clinton Foundation and the pay to play scandal. And after a short period of only a few days. The media virtually forgot that she, together with the DNC, rigged an election against Bernie Sanders.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

How about breaking up the ownership of the media. There used to be a time when the same entity was not allowed to own all of the news outlets in the same market. There were tons of newspapers with tons of differing ways of reporting the same news story. They had always added their slant to how it was reported. People picked news papers the way, people pick political parties.

In those days, through dialog (the editorial page and the opinion page) opposing views were exchanged. In those days, smart people bought two, three, or even four newspapers, to read about the same story. This way they could sift out the crud and get to the truth. They also got to read the varying viewpoints of more than one editor, and opinion writer.

The way it is now? Six entities own almost all of the news media in the U.S. No matter what paper you read, or what news station you listen to, or watch, they all report very uniformly, and have very uniform opinions. The ability to listen to various stations, channels, or to read various papers and magazines to get various points of view is gone.

As a consumer of news, we no longer are able to sift out the crud, to get to the truth. So, what if we petition the President to break up ownership of the news media?



The solution appears to be closer than one might believe, which is the ease of the internet to launch new stories by the average Joe. Heck, I think that is how it is used to counteract the control of the media by governing powers in my home country, which is to simply watch reports by civilians, overlooked radio shows, etc.


Yet, the mainstream media will use their influence to assassinate the character of such alternative news journalists, for example: James O'Keefe, Alex Jones, Steve Bannon, and many others. The mainstream media uses its influence to try to convince the people that news from the bloggosphere is inaccurate, biased, and not helpful to the public (the very things they are guilty of). It leaves Americans confused about who they can trust, and what they can believe. All credibility of mainstream news is gone, and alternative media isn't exactly foolproof, either.

Turning to alternative news sources is helpful, as you say. But I think it is not enough. The ownership of the major news outlets needs to be broken up. Six owners of all of America's major news outlets is bad for America, and bad for the world, too. Japan can't be the only government on Earth that relies on accurately reported news from American journalists to determine what their policy decisions will be...

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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago
American mainstream news sources these days are nothing more than thrown together propaganda.
qwueri 
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

DeadlyOats wrote:


qwueri wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

remember how every American media told people that Hillary had a 90+ % chance of winning. at one point, CNN claimed it was 95% chance....then the election happened.


Yes, the media bought too heavily into polls. Is that what he's referring to, or is it just the default excuse for knee-jerking every story that pops up on facebook?


It was more than just about the polls. It was about doing everything that they could to cast Trump in a negative light. His speeches included his "first 100 day plan." The media only focused on "I'm building that wall, and Mexico is gonna pay for it!" The only time his "first 100 day plan" was ever mentioned, was AFTER he won the election.

Meanwhile, Hillary's policies were the focus, as well as her "long years of experience." None of the media focused too much into the Clinton Foundation and the pay to play scandal. And after a short period of only a few days. The media virtually forgot that she, together with the DNC, rigged an election against Bernie Sanders.



And is any of that what the Japanese Deputy PM was referring to, or is this just another segue into 'boohoo the media fed on the controversies of what Trump said and was publicly accused of while mostly forgot about Hillary unless it was poll numbers'?
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

qwueri wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:


qwueri wrote:


namealreadytaken wrote:

remember how every American media told people that Hillary had a 90+ % chance of winning. at one point, CNN claimed it was 95% chance....then the election happened.


Yes, the media bought too heavily into polls. Is that what he's referring to, or is it just the default excuse for knee-jerking every story that pops up on facebook?


It was more than just about the polls. It was about doing everything that they could to cast Trump in a negative light. His speeches included his "first 100 day plan." The media only focused on "I'm building that wall, and Mexico is gonna pay for it!" The only time his "first 100 day plan" was ever mentioned, was AFTER he won the election.

Meanwhile, Hillary's policies were the focus, as well as her "long years of experience." None of the media focused too much into the Clinton Foundation and the pay to play scandal. And after a short period of only a few days. The media virtually forgot that she, together with the DNC, rigged an election against Bernie Sanders.



And is any of that what the Japanese Deputy PM was referring to, or is this just another segue into 'boohoo the media fed on the controversies of what Trump said and was publicly accused of while mostly forgot about Hillary unless it was poll numbers'?


Are you really defending the obviously biased reporting of news, as reported by the major media outlets owned by the six entities? Are you really discounting, not only Japan's, but many other countries' confusion and shock when it was found that Trump won the presidency? Obviously, something is wrong. You don't want to address what that might be?
qwueri 
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Posted 15 days ago

DeadlyOats wrote:

Are you really defending the obviously biased reporting of news, as reported by the major media outlets owned by the six entities? Are you really discounting, not only Japan's, but many other countries' confusion and shock when it was found that Trump won the presidency? Obviously, something is wrong. You don't want to address what that might be?


I think the reports certainly have their bias, but not in the way you described. But that's not really my point. Japan's confusion may very well be related to the point, but I'd much rather know what the Deputy PM was referring as unreliable about the news rather than the same talking points that float around this board getting transposed onto a convenient headline.
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

qwueri wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

Are you really defending the obviously biased reporting of news, as reported by the major media outlets owned by the six entities? Are you really discounting, not only Japan's, but many other countries' confusion and shock when it was found that Trump won the presidency? Obviously, something is wrong. You don't want to address what that might be?


I think the reports certainly have their bias, but not in the way you described. But that's not really my point. Japan's confusion may very well be related to the point, but I'd much rather know what the Deputy PM was referring as unreliable about the news rather than the same talking points that float around this board getting transposed onto a convenient headline.


In other words, the opinions of folks who post here are inconsequential. They are beneath your notice, and therefore not relevant. That's what you are saying. You understand this?
qwueri 
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

DeadlyOats wrote:

In other words, the opinions of folks who post here are inconsequential. They are beneath your notice, and therefore not relevant. That's what you are saying. You understand this?


Sorry if I triggered you, I'm not out to hurt your feelings over the importance of your opinion. What I would like to know when an opinion is based off of knowledge of the full statement or a reaction off a catchy headline. *The conversation starts getting stale when it's the same copy paste reactions to sensationalized titles.
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Posted 15 days ago , edited 15 days ago

qwueri wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

In other words, the opinions of folks who post here are inconsequential. They are beneath your notice, and therefore not relevant. That's what you are saying. You understand this?


Sorry if I triggered you, I'm not out to hurt your feelings over the importance of your opinion. What I would like to know when an opinion is based off of knowledge of the full statement or a reaction off a catchy headline. *The conversation starts getting stale when it's the same copy paste reactions to sensationalized titles.


In other words, why didn't YOU google and search? You based your entire anti-argument on the OP's headline. Then, why didn't you provide your own headline to show additional information? Instead, you based your entire effort to denigrating the words of people with whom you have a disagreement with...
qwueri 
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Posted 15 days ago

DeadlyOats wrote:

In other words, why didn't YOU google and search? You based your entire anti-argument on the OP's headline. Then, why didn't you provide your own headline to show additional information? Instead, you based your entire effort to denigrating the words of people with whom you have a disagreement with...


Pfft, no. I asked how it was related to the OP, because I'm interested in the context behind the statement (what question was he answering) and google translate sucks. Instead of taking the easy road by pointing out how your opinion related, you act like I wounded your pride and answer nothing. Please forgive me for seeing that as the same copy-pasting the election default responses onto a convenient headline.
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Posted 15 days ago
It's not the first time this sort of thing has happened. The most famous is where a newspaper published a paper showing the wrong person won the presidency:

http://deweydefeatstruman.com/
Minsc 
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Posted 14 days ago , edited 14 days ago
I believe it's wise to treat mainstream media, blogs, forums, random strangers, etc. with caution.

As for the American mainstream media and that Japanese politician, they both have their agendas.

edit:

I suppose this documentary may be somewhat relevant, Hypernormalisation by Adam Curtis.


HyperNormalisation wades through the culmination of forces that have driven this culture into mass uncertainty, confusion, spectacle and simulation. Where events keep happening that seem crazy, inexplicable and out of control—from Donald Trump to Brexit, to the War in Syria, mass immigration, extreme disparity in wealth, and increasing bomb attacks in the West—this film shows a basis to not only why these chaotic events are happening, but also why we, as well as those in power, may not understand them. We have retreated into a simplified, and often completely fake version of the world. And because it is reflected all around us, ubiquitous, we accept it as normal. This epic narrative of how we got here spans over 40 years, with an extraordinary cast of characters—the Assad dynasty, Donald Trump, Henry Kissinger, Patti Smith, early performance artists in New York, President Putin, Japanese gangsters, suicide bombers, Colonel Gaddafi and the Internet. HyperNormalisation weaves these historical narratives back together to show how today’s fake and hollow world was created and is sustained. This shows that a new kind of resistance must be imagined and actioned, as well as an unprecedented reawakening in a time where it matters like never before.


Like any other source of information I wouldn't consider the story shown to be absolute truth but, like the mainstream media, there can be truth within the spin.
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