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Post Reply The madman did it! Carrier is keeping jobs in the USA!
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Posted 12/4/16
Yeah, and Obama got Iran to stop making Nuclear weapons. Awesome, right? Oh, nevermind what Iran got in return, not really important, is it?

I haven't seen yet what Carrier is getting that made them want to stay. Maybe Trump did good here, maybe not. Crony capitalism is a long-standing tradition of the Republican party, and this deal has the faint smell of it. But, who knows, maybe Trump pulled this off in a way that will be good for Carrier's competitors as well, and indeed, the rest of the free market. If anyone has a good source on why Carrier made this choice, or what the deal was, I'd be interested in seeing it. Gotta know the terms of the deal to evaluate it.
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16
Looking extra cute today OP
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16

kevz_210 wrote:

Are we already discussing Trump's Presidential legacy? He's still not President folks. It has yet to be see what type of President he will be, right now we can't do much other than make predictions


I hope he surprises me. All I can say is he has a godly life insurance though. It is valued at one Pence!

Jokes aside, I have already "lost" my job I had lined up after graduation with the Government. I had a job lined up as a civilian geologist with the Army Corps of Engineers. Trump stated he wanted to freeze government hiring and they sent me an email about a week or two back saying that they probably wont be able to hire me now.

It sucks because his legacy already potentially cost me a job and now I may have to go work in the private sector due to him gutting pensions and what not. I really didn't want to sell my soul to the dying petroleum industry, but I don't have enough knowledge for much more than geothermal energy if that is the case.
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16
Every job that ever existed ever could come back if the company moved it gets handfuls of $ in return. People like the OP getting super excited over what is pretty much a legal bribe is just laughable on so many levels.
Also allows any company to claim jobs are going to go bye byes too unless they get a handful of $ as well. So the flood gates could open sometime soon.

So what Trump saved some Carrier jobs is he going to do the same for anyone in the XYZ as well? If he doesn't he would have been no different then the last how many years so will be no different. Also what happens once the tax breaks end whoever is president gives another one?
10 years isn't a long time they will be in the black (in terms of their investment) long before the 10 years is up so the jobs if not paid for again will still go bye byes.

Manufacturing in any country is dead or on life government support unless they are given pocket change a month as a salary. That's why China, Mexico, Thailand etc have such massive manufacturing appeal to companies. Why pay someone $7+ a hour when they could pay someone $7 a day to make it instead?

Governments all around the world should be looking at manufacturing stuff that doesn't exist in mass scale or could be done more efficiently and building jobs on that.
Green power for example. No one wants to invest in that because it would hurt fossil fuel exports. Could cause problems for other countries that rely solely on exporting them. So becomes a well we better not do that...
So they would rather just pay off companies with money they don't have because a band aid fix is just so much easier. Even though it only fixes the issue it covers the surrounds will still have the exact same problem.
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M / Georgia, USA
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16
Why do people think tax cuts = taxpayer money taken away?

It never existed in the first place as 'taxpayer money' so how is it 'taken away?


penguincat wrote:


Green power for example. No one wants to invest in that because it would hurt fossil fuel exports.


No one who is smart wants to invest in it (unless they live in a EU country where de icing wind turbines in the winter using oil power is subsidized by the government using millions in taxdollars) because 90% of it is garbage and isn't actually green.
Solar panels are expensive and need constant upkeep and replacement with materials that have to be made using coal power and obtained via strip mining, same with wind turbines. Also they look ugly and shit up nature because you have to make huge plots of land with a shit ton of them to get enough power to be useful.
Nuclear power is the only way to go, and its clean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfzgIxMEo8g

But you're right about US ties to foreign countries where we buy oil getting screwed if alternative fuel sources could be gotten else where. That's why the pipeline being built now is so important. Saudi Arabia needs to be screwed
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Nuclear power is the only way to go, and its clean.


Which nuclear power? The wasteful one we have now fission or nuclear fusion?
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16

penguincat wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Nuclear power is the only way to go, and its clean.


Which nuclear power? The wasteful one we have now fission or nuclear fusion?


How about the one that is actually possible with human technology right now?

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Posted 12/4/16

theYchromosome wrote:

Yeah, and Obama got Iran to stop making Nuclear weapons. Awesome, right? Oh, nevermind what Iran got in return, not really important, is it?

I haven't seen yet what Carrier is getting that made them want to stay. Maybe Trump did good here, maybe not. Crony capitalism is a long-standing tradition of the Republican party, and this deal has the faint smell of it. But, who knows, maybe Trump pulled this off in a way that will be good for Carrier's competitors as well, and indeed, the rest of the free market. If anyone has a good source on why Carrier made this choice, or what the deal was, I'd be interested in seeing it. Gotta know the terms of the deal to evaluate it.


This is as much information we'll get from the news. Trump and Carrier have not released too many details about the deal. You'll see the same basic details in other news stories, some slamming the deal, and others praising it, depending on the news source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/business/economy/trump-carrier-pence-jobs.html


Trump Sealed Carrier Deal With Mix of Threat and Incentive



“The free market has been sorting it out and America’s been losing,” Mr. Pence added, as Mr. Trump interjected, “Every time, every time.”

But since the pact was disclosed on Tuesday, critics have pounced on Carrier’s receipt of $7 million in incentives from the state of Indiana — just the kind of corporate giveaways Mr. Trump knocked as he slammed Carrier on the campaign trail last spring.

Others have pointed out that cutting individual deals with different companies is a costly and ineffective way to stem the powerful forces that impel business to move factories and jobs in a highly competitive global and national economy.

“He has signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives,” Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont wrote in an op-ed on Thursday for The Washington Post.



The vice president-elect insisted that the incentives did not represent a giveaway on Mr. Trump’s part, and claimed United Technologies had turned down a similar-size package of breaks in March.

What made the difference, he said, was Mr. Trump’s public pressure, as well his promise to cut corporate taxes and ease regulation.

“These jobs were gone,” Mr. Pence said. “I sat the executives down in my governor’s office in the statehouse in early March. They said we aren’t in a position to reconsider this in any way, shape or form.”


Mr. Trump, too, played down the role of the incentives. And he said he did not directly raise the $5 billion to $6 billion in federal contracts United Technologies receives, much of it from the Pentagon.

But company officials are acutely aware that its Pratt & Whitney unit, among other things, supplies jet engines to the Air Force’s most advanced fighter and many other planes, making it much more vulnerable to political pressure than other, lesser-known manufacturers that have been steadily closing shop in the Midwest and moving production south of the border.

“It may have a played a role in their equation,” Mr. Trump allowed. “I never mentioned it. I didn’t feel I had to.”



On Thursday, as he toured the factory floor here to take credit for saving roughly half of the 2,000 jobs Indiana stood to lose, Mr. Trump sent a message to other businesses as well that he intended to follow through on his pledges to impose stiff tariffs on imports from companies that move production overseas and ship their products back to the United States.

“This is the way it’s going to be,” Mr. Trump said in an interview with The New York Times. “Corporate America is going to have to understand that we have to take care of our workers also.”


$7 million dollars in tax savings is peanuts. These guys pulled in 7.5 to 8 billion dollars, selling air conditioners around the world, from this factory in 2015 or 2016.


I think it was fear of a combination of two factors. First, and foremost, a worry that Trump would stick a wrench in their jet engine contracts with the Pentagon, and not insignificantly second, Trump's threat of stiff tariffs is real.


In Washington, Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, suggested that Carrier’s decision, while “good news,” was only a drop in the bucket.

“Mr. Trump would have to make 804 more announcements just like that to equal the standard of jobs in the manufacturing sector that were created in this country under President Obama’s watch,” Mr. Earnest said. “So this is good news, but the incoming president has a high bar to meet when it comes to putting in place the kind of economic policies that would benefit American workers.”

Still, Mr. Trump’s appeal is likely to lead to a more fundamental shift in the way Washington approaches dealing with corporate decisions on where to locate jobs.

“Contrary to early reactions from the left and the right, the Carrier deal opens the door to a new approach to U.S. economic growth policy that is sorely needed,” the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, a research and advocacy group, said in a statement. “It sets the precedent that growing, attracting and retaining globally traded, innovation-based industries that are both high-value and pay high wages is central to U.S. economic growth.”
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Posted 12/4/16

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


penguincat wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Nuclear power is the only way to go, and its clean.


Which nuclear power? The wasteful one we have now fission or nuclear fusion?


How about the one that is actually possible with human technology right now?



Oh.... Like the ones in Fukushima. Sure. Why not?
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16
As an Indiana tax payer I had more to do with this deal the President Clown Fish It's coming out my tax dollars not his
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Posted 12/4/16
save a 1000 jobs for millions in tax breaks, but 1300 people still lose their jobs... sounds great...
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Posted 12/4/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


kevz_210 wrote:

Are we already discussing Trump's Presidential legacy? He's still not President folks. It has yet to be see what type of President he will be, right now we can't do much other than make predictions


I hope he surprises me. All I can say is he has a godly life insurance though. It is valued at one Pence!

Jokes aside, I have already "lost" my job I had lined up after graduation with the Government. I had a job lined up as a civilian geologist with the Army Corps of Engineers. Trump stated he wanted to freeze government hiring and they sent me an email about a week or two back saying that they probably wont be able to hire me now.

It sucks because his legacy already potentially cost me a job and now I may have to go work in the private sector due to him gutting pensions and what not. I really didn't want to sell my soul to the dying petroleum industry, but I don't have enough knowledge for much more than geothermal energy if that is the case.


Yeah man, that sucks. Hope something works out for you.
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16

DeadlyOats wrote:



Oh.... Like the ones in Fukushima. Sure. Why not?


Or like all the other ones we have providing power to us right now.

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Posted 12/4/16
although not a win, it definitely is damage reduction. better that you only lose 1000 instead of double that.

And to anything who dare thinks that they just denied 1000 people in mexico a job, you got to remember. He is the president of the United States, not Mexico. He want his country to prosper, not one that he is not in charge of. It would be like giving my house people I don't even know, I'd be dammed if I ever do that. But if absolutely necessary, I can still keep half of my house while a parasite infests the other half. (not that I would like it)
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Posted 12/4/16 , edited 12/4/16

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:



Oh.... Like the ones in Fukushima. Sure. Why not?


Or like all the other ones we have providing power to us right now.



Omg, some of those states are so fucked, I can't even see what they are.
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