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Post Reply Anyone up for a god debate?
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Posted 12/1/16

Potentsaliva wrote:


thewhitemoogle wrote:

Your argument is the result of lazy bean-counter reasoning with no substance or meaning invested in it and not surprisingly it turns to dust. If someone else wants to show me the tofu and potatoes I'm listening because so far this offering tastes like cardboard."


I'm vegan and that part offends me...


Fixed. Just for you. XD
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24 / M / Abyss
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Posted 12/1/16

thewhitemoogle wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:

I dare say you misunderstood me. I don't follow ANY god. Not the Christian, Aztec, Chinese, Japanese.

I am not saying I don't deal with any gods other than Yahweh.


Oh, yep, I think did. My apologies.

So you don't follow any god because...it's too much work to sift through them all?


Pretty much, there are anywhere between 2,000-5,000+ gods. Sounds like a pain in the ass to worry about.
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24 / Texas
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Posted 12/1/16

Dark_Alma wrote:


thewhitemoogle wrote:


Dark_Alma wrote:

I dare say you misunderstood me. I don't follow ANY god. Not the Christian, Aztec, Chinese, Japanese.

I am not saying I don't deal with any gods other than Yahweh.


Oh, yep, I think did. My apologies.

So you don't follow any god because...it's too much work to sift through them all?


Pretty much, there are anywhere between 2,000-5,000+ gods. Sounds like a pain in the ass to worry about.


Honestly, it is. And you shouldn't try it unless you're willing to put some work in.
But if you wanted to try, a good method might be to ask yourself: if there really was a God, and not some minor "god" that doesn't actually impact your life any, but a true GOD, who might actually want to make a difference in your life... Which God would that be? It would have to be one that has been around since the beginning of humanity, and it wouldn't matter if it was one of the thousand or so "local" gods of Shinto or Hinduism. Really you could narrow it down to Islam, Christianity, Judaism. If it's not one of those, then it won't really matter if you believe in God or not.
But, like you said, it's a pain to do all that, and I don't blame you for avoiding it.
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Posted 12/1/16
Alas, I'm an agnostic. For that reason, I can't say whether or not a higher power does exist. I'm in a state where I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. I mean, there's no substantial evidence for God's existence or nonexistence. Believe what you will!
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Posted 12/1/16
God is dead.
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Hoosierville
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Posted 12/1/16

Bowie-Sensei wrote:

God is dead.


No he's in the white house

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Posted 12/1/16 , edited 12/1/16
I can't prove God exists but there are some things in my life that tell me that he does exist. I shared them once with someone and that person made fun of me. That's why I don't like to share my thoughts with people but I'll make an exception here.

I can't prove that he exists because unbelievers will never believe no matter what you tell them and I really have no proof to back up my beliefs. I do want to believe he exists, I choose to believe.

Otherwise, how the universe came into existence ? who gaves us life? who separated us from animals and gave us the capability to think? the universe is infinite, who is out there taking care of it?

Everything is too complex just to say no one is out there.

It is scary to believe that there is no creator. That we are alone. It is also scary to believe that there is a creator, that there is someone who watches us and knows all of our secrets and sins.

I have read the bible during that time I had that experience that told me that God exists.

When I read things where God says something along the lines of: "doesn't the creator of love feel love? doesn't he feel anger, jealousy and sadness even though he created them? " I feel more connected to him.

God gave us all of his traits. We can feel thanks to him. He feels hurt when we deny him and jealous when we choose to ignore and believe in other gods. It comforts me to know that we are like him in that aspect.

God is love.

I found this out that day many years ago.

I always saw myself as those people who say on the outside that they believe in God but on the inside they are dead and don't really care if God exists or not. I went to church by force, I didn't open the door to a family friend who wanted to teach me about the Bible. I didn't care until one day something touched me in my heart.

All of a sudden I was feeling extreme happiness, a happiness I have never felt before, a happiness I only felt that day and I will probably never feel again: completeness. It is hard to explain but I got that feeling while I was out shopping and I couldn't stop smiling. All of a sudden I saw the people around me with love and I loved everything. All this time I knew it was God. When I was feeling like that a thought came to my mind: "God exists" and I felt so happy!!! until this day I can't explain why this happened. I wasn't even thinking about God, I never did before that. It was a normal day, I was normal and in one instant my heart was on fire, alive and content. I did cry with a smile on my face. I didn't care that I was in public and people were watching. Everything in that moment made sense and was perfect.

And that's how I started to believe in him. I do believe and always will.

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Posted 12/1/16 , edited 12/1/16
Better question: does it even matter?
Think about it either there is a God and an afterlife or we die and that's it. Nothing we do is going to change whether or not God exists. Best to assume this is our only life, live it to the fullest and if anything comes after treat it as a bonus.
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19 / M / Temple of Yaoiism
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Posted 12/1/16
I've never believed in a god, even when I was 5 and I asked my parents how the universe was created, the explanation of "God created it" was too simplistic, it wasn't a satisfying explanation at all.

I've pretty much struggled with trying to force myself to believe in an unfounded claim of a god throughout my early life, eventually I just killed the idea altogether after reading some atheist arguments and realizing that I just can't believe in a god.

Anyways, in my life I can only describe religion as the mental shackle that once broken, allowed me to express myself much more freely. Now I didn't have to worry about whether or not some invisible entity approves of whether or not I think about what's in the pants of other boys, and I didn't have to force myself to pretend I believe in a god or suffer for eternity otherwise.

Either way, even if there is a god, I don't care.

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37 / M / Shanghai China
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Posted 12/1/16 , edited 12/1/16
What I don't understand is why would anyone want to be part of a religion that stole money from people and never gave it back stole land from people burned books and reset the clock on human civilization back we would be terraforming mars now if the pope never burned the library Alexandria and we lost a lot of medical knowledge to that could have prevented the black plague. Not to mentioned burned people alive at the stake for being witches and rewrote the bible to justify their actions of cruelty and to grab power and lets not forget the dark ages where religion banned science and considered evil.
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19 / M / Temple of Yaoiism
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Posted 12/1/16 , edited 12/2/16

gsm642 wrote:

What I don't understand is why would anyone want to be part of a religion that stole money from people and never gave it back stole land from people burned books and reset the clock on human civilization back we would be terraforming mars now if the pope never burned the library Alexandria and we lost a lot of medical knowledge to that could have prevented the black plague. Not to mentioned burned people alive at the stake for being witches and rewrote the bible to justify their actions of cruelty and to grab power


Well that's just the result of when you give a stupid person power and a crowd of stupid people to back them.



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20 / M / Wales
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Posted 12/2/16

thewhitemoogle wrote:


eviscery wrote:

I think there is a reason that all successful human societies have held some kind of religious belief. There must have been some kind of advantage to a collective belief in some form of supernatural entity. Otherwise we wouldn't see this kind of convergent evolution across the board.
My opinion on religion is that it is a natural adaption of the human race to help social cohesion in a time long before the concept of globalisation was even a thing. If it was not something that benefited humanities survival it would not have formed independently hundreds of times over.
Nonetheless religion is an affront to individualism and promotes a lack of self-awareness, creativity and originality. It's a blight on the modern world.

As to the 'god question' the answer is simple. God is as likely to exist as any other form of super natural being. Leprechauns, Vampires, Witches etc etc etc. There is no logical reason to believe in one without validating the existence of the others. This isn't to say we know God doesn't exist. Strictly speaking we cannot say with certainty that anything doesn't exist. We would have to explore the entirety of all existence to know for sure that there isn't a God hiding somewhere. Which is physically impossible.

Often we just believe what seems to make sense based on our knowledge and understanding of the world. God does not. So we can safely say there isn't a God.


I agree with you that religious beliefs definitely provide advantages and cohesion in societies. I think the USA is a pretty good example of a country that was once unified under similar values (which were largely religious) and whose values and convictions have fragmented to the point where its people can barely understand each other. Religion (especially monotheistic religions, and Christianity in particular) has huge benefits to society.

As for religion being an affront to creativity and self awareness... How so? I see the exact opposite in many cases, though it seems to depend a great deal on the religion.

I'm extremely interested in your claim that God is as likely to exist as any other form of super natural being. How do you support this claim? I mean... What if we had TONS of ancient accounts from all over the world over the course of millennia about vampires, but only one piece of folklore in Ireland about Leprechauns. The claim about vampires is still JUST as probable? What do you mean?

I completely agree with you on this point, though: often we DO just believe what seems to make sense based on our knowledge and understanding of the world. It just turns out that everyone's understanding of the world is a little different.



I don't know if I would go so far as to suggest any particular belief system has more advantages than any other. Although I would say that monotheism was probably a natural evolution of religion as believing in one god is better for social cohesion than many gods. I am sure polytheists would often get into fights about which god is better.

Religion is by definition a set of things an individual chooses to believe in because he/she has been told to do so by a group. Believing in something just because you have been told to shows a lack of individuality, creativity, originality and self-awareness. I would respect someone who didn't consider themselves religious but had their own ideas about a god far more than someone that simply believes what they are told to believe. Even if they have been told that there is no god. I believe people should use their own minds to come up with their own way of life and their own belief systems. Fact is, it's just far easier to just follow the herd than to think for yourself.

Well, the way I see it is that the life-span of a belief doesn't influence how true it is. We've known Earth wasn't the centre of the solar system for what? A couple hundred years? Compared to the over a thousand years we believed it was the centre of everything. In the same way just because the concept of vampires has been around longer than the concept of leprechauns doesn't alter their relative probability to be real. (I'm actually pretty sure leprechauns are older than vampires but I don't care to look it up.)

I could be wrong but I have seen no reason to believe so. I cannot think of any logical way to consider big foot (or any other super natural being) less likely to be real than any particular god. I mean, most arguments for god can apply to big foot. "I have faith" well, people can have faith in anything, and some do have faith in big foot being real. "I saw God! He spoke to me!" I'm sure similar things have been said by people that believe they saw big foot. "I see the signs." ditto. "It says it here in my holy book!" perhaps they wouldn't call it holy but a lot of books say the same thing about big foot. "There is no other explanation for this!" I'm sure you're getting the idea.

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Posted 12/2/16
If this is really a thread about getting people's opinions, shouldn't it be titled differently?

For example, "What are your opinions regarding God?"

I detect a disingenuous modus operandi and thus refuse to engage
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Posted 12/2/16

nanikore2 wrote:

If this is really a thread about getting people's opinions, shouldn't it be titled differently?

For example, "What are your opinions regarding God?"

I detect a disingenuous modus operandi and thus refuse to engage


No, it's just that most people are commenting their opinions on the god question since no one's really started the argument itself. Try not to let that deter you from the thread. It's still interesting to see peoples opinions while we wait for someone to really argue their faiths.

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Posted 12/2/16

yuummmmy wrote:

I can't prove God exists but there are some things in my life that tell me that he does exist. I shared them once with someone and that person made fun of me. That's why I don't like to share my thoughts with people but I'll make an exception here.

I can't prove that he exists because unbelievers will never believe no matter what you tell them and I really have no proof to back up my beliefs. I do want to believe he exists, I choose to believe.

Otherwise, how the universe came into existence ? who gaves us life? who separated us from animals and gave us the capability to think? the universe is infinite, who is out there taking care of it?

Everything is too complex just to say no one is out there.

It is scary to believe that there is no creator. That we are alone. It is also scary to believe that there is a creator, that there is someone who watches us and knows all of our secrets and sins.

I have read the bible during that time I had that experience that told me that God exists.

When I read things where God says something along the lines of: "doesn't the creator of love feel love? doesn't he feel anger, jealousy and sadness even though he created them? " I feel more connected to him.

God gave us all of his traits. We can feel thanks to him. He feels hurt when we deny him and jealous when we choose to ignore and believe in other gods. It comforts me to know that we are like him in that aspect.

God is love.

I found this out that day many years ago.

I always saw myself as those people who say on the outside that they believe in God but on the inside they are dead and don't really care if God exists or not. I went to church by force, I didn't open the door to a family friend who wanted to teach me about the Bible. I didn't care until one day something touched me in my heart.

All of a sudden I was feeling extreme happiness, a happiness I have never felt before, a happiness I only felt that day and I will probably never feel again: completeness. It is hard to explain but I got that feeling while I was out shopping and I couldn't stop smiling. All of a sudden I saw the people around me with love and I loved everything. All this time I knew it was God. When I was feeling like that a thought came to my mind: "God exists" and I felt so happy!!! until this day I can't explain why this happened. I wasn't even thinking about God, I never did before that. It was a normal day, I was normal and in one instant my heart was on fire, alive and content. I did cry with a smile on my face. I didn't care that I was in public and people were watching. Everything in that moment made sense and was perfect.

And that's how I started to believe in him. I do believe and always will.



I have just point out that it really seems like you began to believe in him because you "want to believe he exists" and not because of a genuine logical persuasion. You are allowed to believe in whatever you want for whatever reason but if you want anyone to take you seriously you have to present genuine arguments. Allow me to demonstrate. You believe in the Christian God so I'll present to you the Euthyphro Dilemma, which asks “Are morally good acts willed by God because they are morally good, or are they morally good because they are willed by God?"

Please respond at your leisure.
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