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Would you do this?
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28 / F / Outer Orbit
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

aroll727 wrote:

Well, you are right in that regard. Most people do experience the "better than average" effect which, of course, is paradoxical because only 50% of people are actually, by definition, better than average. For me, I'm not trying to be self-righteous as all I'm saying is that personally, I wouldn't go that far for any amount of money for a multitude of reasons, thereby there are other people who feel the same way. It also has to do with the fact that, as a vegan, it would directly contradict my morals which I try to follow pretty strictly, so this pretty much applies to most other vegans and vegetarians. As for people who eat meat, I'm certain that those who also take a more pacifist stance would choose against stepping on the puppy as well. I'll admit that I am somewhat of an idealist, so if you think that all people are innately greedy and selfishly opportunistic then it is its own valid philosophy which you, too, have every right to believe in. In my opinion (and from my observation) human nature is not a fixed entity and has evolved over time as we progressed as a species, so I believe that people do not think exactly in the way that they once had a millennium ago.


Well, there is a thing I suppose we could agree on, you are rather optimistic idealist and I am pessimistic realist, which will inevitably lead to some disagreement on the matter at hand, with the actual truth being somewhere in the middle, funnily enough.
On the other hand, I said everyone has a price, it doesn't have to be money, even if money is the simplest and most universal. If I take it to the hypothethical extreme, I want you to kill this puppy. The price for doing it is that I will not torture you to death over several months. See? I will just repeat it: EVERYONE has a price, for asituation that might ever occur.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17
That would be evil.

The puppy did nothing to you.

But it is kind of hard since it's 18 billion.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

Elvikun wrote:


aroll727 wrote:

Well, you are right in that regard. Most people do experience the "better than average" effect which, of course, is paradoxical because only 50% of people are actually, by definition, better than average. For me, I'm not trying to be self-righteous as all I'm saying is that personally, I wouldn't go that far for any amount of money for a multitude of reasons, thereby there are other people who feel the same way. It also has to do with the fact that, as a vegan, it would directly contradict my morals which I try to follow pretty strictly, so this pretty much applies to most other vegans and vegetarians. As for people who eat meat, I'm certain that those who also take a more pacifist stance would choose against stepping on the puppy as well. I'll admit that I am somewhat of an idealist, so if you think that all people are innately greedy and selfishly opportunistic then it is its own valid philosophy which you, too, have every right to believe in. In my opinion (and from my observation) human nature is not a fixed entity and has evolved over time as we progressed as a species, so I believe that people do not think exactly in the way that they once had a millennium ago.


Well, there is a thing I suppose we could agree on, you are rather optimistic idealist and I am pessimistic realist, which will inevitably lead to some disagreement on the matter at hand, with the actual truth being somewhere in the middle, funnily enough.
On the other hand, I said everyone has a price, it doesn't have to be money, even if money is the simplest and most universal. If I take it to the hypothethical extreme, I want you to kill this puppy. The price for doing it is that I will not torture you to death over several months. See? I will just repeat it: EVERYONE has a price, for asituation that might ever occur.


Okay, but that's sort of a given. What you refer to as a "price" includes both positive and negative motivations ("push" and "pull" if you will) while my argument only entails the former. My claim is that many people choose not to give into greed—it was not a question of which negative outcome was more severe, therefore this argument follows the straw man fallacy.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

aroll727 wrote:


Elvikun wrote:


aroll727 wrote:

Well, you are right in that regard. Most people do experience the "better than average" effect which, of course, is paradoxical because only 50% of people are actually, by definition, better than average. For me, I'm not trying to be self-righteous as all I'm saying is that personally, I wouldn't go that far for any amount of money for a multitude of reasons, thereby there are other people who feel the same way. It also has to do with the fact that, as a vegan, it would directly contradict my morals which I try to follow pretty strictly, so this pretty much applies to most other vegans and vegetarians. As for people who eat meat, I'm certain that those who also take a more pacifist stance would choose against stepping on the puppy as well. I'll admit that I am somewhat of an idealist, so if you think that all people are innately greedy and selfishly opportunistic then it is its own valid philosophy which you, too, have every right to believe in. In my opinion (and from my observation) human nature is not a fixed entity and has evolved over time as we progressed as a species, so I believe that people do not think exactly in the way that they once had a millennium ago.


Well, there is a thing I suppose we could agree on, you are rather optimistic idealist and I am pessimistic realist, which will inevitably lead to some disagreement on the matter at hand, with the actual truth being somewhere in the middle, funnily enough.
On the other hand, I said everyone has a price, it doesn't have to be money, even if money is the simplest and most universal. If I take it to the hypothethical extreme, I want you to kill this puppy. The price for doing it is that I will not torture you to death over several months. See? I will just repeat it: EVERYONE has a price, for asituation that might ever occur.


Okay, but that's sort of a given. What you refer to as a "price" includes both positive and negative motivations ("push" and "pull" if you will) while my argument only entails the former. My claim is that many people choose not to give into greed—it was not a question of which negative outcome was more severe, therefore this argument follows the straw man fallacy.


It would still be greed tho. You can think of yourself only (greed) or you can save the puppy at the cost of losing something, no matter whether it is money offered or your toes. And price is a price. You may not care about money, but there certainly is something else you care about and we can use that instead of currency and that is true for almost everyone.
Also I'm definitely not strawmanig you, I was simply saying that you strike me as a person that likes to see the good side of humanity, where I see the bad.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

Elvikun wrote:


aroll727 wrote:


Elvikun wrote:


aroll727 wrote:

Well, you are right in that regard. Most people do experience the "better than average" effect which, of course, is paradoxical because only 50% of people are actually, by definition, better than average. For me, I'm not trying to be self-righteous as all I'm saying is that personally, I wouldn't go that far for any amount of money for a multitude of reasons, thereby there are other people who feel the same way. It also has to do with the fact that, as a vegan, it would directly contradict my morals which I try to follow pretty strictly, so this pretty much applies to most other vegans and vegetarians. As for people who eat meat, I'm certain that those who also take a more pacifist stance would choose against stepping on the puppy as well. I'll admit that I am somewhat of an idealist, so if you think that all people are innately greedy and selfishly opportunistic then it is its own valid philosophy which you, too, have every right to believe in. In my opinion (and from my observation) human nature is not a fixed entity and has evolved over time as we progressed as a species, so I believe that people do not think exactly in the way that they once had a millennium ago.


Well, there is a thing I suppose we could agree on, you are rather optimistic idealist and I am pessimistic realist, which will inevitably lead to some disagreement on the matter at hand, with the actual truth being somewhere in the middle, funnily enough.
On the other hand, I said everyone has a price, it doesn't have to be money, even if money is the simplest and most universal. If I take it to the hypothethical extreme, I want you to kill this puppy. The price for doing it is that I will not torture you to death over several months. See? I will just repeat it: EVERYONE has a price, for asituation that might ever occur.


Okay, but that's sort of a given. What you refer to as a "price" includes both positive and negative motivations ("push" and "pull" if you will) while my argument only entails the former. My claim is that many people choose not to give into greed—it was not a question of which negative outcome was more severe, therefore this argument follows the straw man fallacy.


It would still be greed tho. You can think of yourself only (greed) or you can save the puppy at the cost of losing something, no matter whether it is money offered or your toes. And price is a price. You may not care about money, but there certainly is something else you care about and we can use that instead of currency and that is true for almost everyone.
Also I'm definitely not strawmanig you, I was simply saying that you strike me as a person that likes to see the good side of humanity, where I see the bad.


Greed is defined as an intense selfish desire. Not wanting to die or be hurt is not selfish, therefore it is not greedy.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

aroll727 wrote:


Greed is defined as an intense selfish desire. Not wanting to die or be hurt is not selfish, therefore it is not greedy.


Well, interestingly enough, I would disagree yet again, because if the only way to not get hurt is hurting other, it's certainly selfish, the selfless thing to do would be to get hurt in place of the other. What's more, self-preservation is -inherently- a selfish thing.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

Elvikun wrote:


aroll727 wrote:


Greed is defined as an intense selfish desire. Not wanting to die or be hurt is not selfish, therefore it is not greedy.


Well, interestingly enough, I would disagree yet again, because if the only way to not get hurt is hurting other, it's certainly selfish, the selfless thing to do would be to get hurt in place of the other. What's more, self-preservation is -inherently- a selfish thing.


Actually, I do think that's pretty interesting, and I guess I would have to agree on that last point. I guess I have to reevaluate my defense, haha. Essentially, I feel that gaining something that is completely unnecessary to one's own life at the expense of others, is different from protecting oneself at the expense of others.
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Posted 6/15/17 , edited 6/16/17
for so much money , YES
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25 / M / San Diego, CA
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Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/16/17
No. You couldn't pay me enough.
Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/16/17
No. I'll just find some other way to make a lot of money.
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F / Colorado
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Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/17/17
Puppy too cute to crush.
Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/17/17
No way that's madness
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Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/17/17
$18 billion dollars would never lift the guilt off of me if I do that.
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22 / M
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Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/17/17
No but I think it can be ok if you aren't in a serious relationship
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22 / MtF / PA
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Posted 6/16/17 , edited 6/17/17
Yes.

I would give a lot of money towards saving other puppies/dogs in some way. I will take a picture of the puppy before and keep it hung up at a shrine at my new mansion and I will pray to him daily for his sacrifice for the greater good of his fellow kind, as well as forcing myself to never forget the awful thing I did.
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